AH-1Z Viper, 1000 Hellfire II Missiles approved for sale to Pakistan.

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Quality matters



Exactly.



Didn't know that. Now It even makes more sense. Even without the aid this would have been a good buy.

The deal is worth around 1.1-2 billion dollars (additional order for equipment was placed)...

Under FMS.. Not really AID....
CSF is reimbursement.

You have got a good point there but the only time I see hell fires being used are to takeout some underground bunkers or tunnel networks and trust me those rats have many of those but yes mostly I don't see them being used against the lone technical or compound

For that it's PAF that bombs them or PA that goes for them...

Gunships are mostly used in following cases/situations;

Softening ground (before troops and armour move in)
Air support (troops or convoys)
Targeting talibitch hideouts,compounds etc...

Hellfires aren't very useful against under ground tunnels (which cover kilometres in cases and are deep as fuk--- with several escape "doors" or exits)...

 

[Khan_patriot]

For that it's PAF that bombs them or PA that goes for them...

Gunships are mostly used in following cases;

Softening ground
Air support
Targeting talibitch hideouts,compounds etc...

Hellfires aren't very useful against under ground tunnels (which cover kilometres in cases and are deep as fuk--- with several escape "doors" or exits)...

Yeah roger that as long as they end up in hell I don't care,
DEATH TO THE TALIBAN

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Yeah roger that as long as they end up in hell I don't care,
DEATH TO THE TALIBAN

Amen brother... Those motherfukers need dying.

 

[C130]

Ka-52 would of been a wiser choice. not only is the helicopter cheaper the main missile costs 1/3 that of the Hellfire II Romeo

 

[dadeechi]

Counter apaches? You do know that gunships don't really engage other gunships right?

Pakistan has to replace our aging Cobras (over 55+)...
Mi-35Es are for CT ops... Vipers will replace older Cobras.. Either more will be ordered or maybe the rest will be replaced by Z-10s..



I doubt we will use expensive hell fires on those bastards.. Locally produced Barqs and Baktar Shikans (which are being used) are enough for them.

I did not mean chopper vs chopper rather for your tank destruction vs our tank destruction.

Any defence procurement is not theatre specific although this might have been to counter the Indian procurement but the more pressing matter to our national security is the militant threat instead of the Indians.
To answer your question about needing 1000 hell fires, that's to blow all the talibitches to hell

Those 1000 Hellfires are for 1000 T-90 Tanks

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Ka-52 would of been a wiser choice. not only is the helicopter cheaper the main missile costs 1/3 that of the Hellfire II Romeo

Would also need infrastructure,training and whole logistics to support them.... Meanwhile Pak has been operating Cobras for decades and Viper (in essence) is Cobras offspring.


Meanwhile MI-35Es will fulfill the gap...


----


Pretty fuked up --- Army aviation will operate several types of gunships;
Vipers
Cobras (which will eventually be replaced)
Mi-35Es (most probably equip SF heli SQDs)
Z-10s (if they buy more)
Fennecs (light attack)

I did not mean chopper vs chopper rather for your tank destruction vs our tank destruction.

Just like you have to replace mi-25s -- we have to replace Cobras..

 

[princefaisal]

Ka-52 would of been a wiser choice. not only is the helicopter cheaper the main missile costs 1/3 that of the Hellfire II Romeo

Looks better than Mi-28 Havoc

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The Helicopters have the prestige element as it was used by US marines , I mean I love the helicopter how it looks its beautiful piece of machine , US made has to be beautiful

Lets face it on its beauti and performance , the chopper gets 8.9/10 easily only second to Apache and few russian versions


But 15 Helicopters are not sufficient for Pakistan army, we need at least 50-60 Gunships , and ability to maintain them to top performance levels , like develop engineering Human Resources on new Technology/Mechanical know how

I mean I love the design of the machine etc the performance matrices and all that good stuff
Just that in today's age when Terrorist have RPG , having ample helicopter force is key to any success

Z-10 Chinese chopper offer some serious fire power & numbers , together with decent Air to Air Missiles to take out any opposing chopper. Pakistan could get TOT on the missiles , 4,000-5000 Missiles on hand and productions

Z10 is a more practical option for Pakistan Army , since we can get 100-200 units if we plan 4-5 year cycle with setup of TOT and Local Assembly

These would serve our needs for 12-15 years

Twin engine , performance
2 Pilots to coordinate operations
Ample options for Air to Ground
Ample options for Air to Air missions

 

[Cool_Soldier]

Viper is has technological edge, that is why Army wants to have them.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

If Military takes the same approach as JF17 thunder on Z-10 , we could have assembly / manufacturing units in KAMRA , 100-200 Units over 5 years. Enough for 15 years defense need

Plus with Chinese product we know we will get

• Enhancements over years
  
• Supply of Missiles, would be easy
  
• Live testing of weapons as we have plenty of spares

The Viper is a decent platform , just expensive and hard to maintain , becomes a burden after 4-5 years of service as we need engines and parts etc

15 Choppers not enough , considering large Territory we need to cover

Considering we need the Choppers now , vs Anti Terror role , and protecting border arrival in 2018 is just so far away sadly

 

[Sulman Badshah]

16 Million for Z-10 , with 650 Million we could have bought 46 , Attack gunships of comparable quality from China

WZ10 is near 30 M USD per helicopter and less capable than viper ...

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well what makes you say that Z-10 is any less capable

Speed/ Climb rate are all decent in fact fantastic

It has Air to Ground missiles to hit Tanks, APC , Compounds , fortified soldier commands
It has machine gun to take out soliders on foot disable and destroy trucks and jeeps
It has Air to Air missiles for engagement of Other helicopters

15 US choppers would be great just the numbers are low , will have to leave fight to rearm , and then you know lack of spare engines and other issues , its short minded solution

The choppers , will be struggling for repair parts in 4-5 years and with no spares , we will be stuck grounding these

 

[HRK]

This 1 billion is mostly from USA Aid

these are coming under Foreign Military Sales program, not under Foreign Military Funding program

 

[Sulman Badshah]

Well what makes you say that Z-10 is any less capable

I am not saying WZ10 is bad helicopter .. it is good and comparable with T129

but AH1Z got extra punch

Just look at weapon take off package of Z10 and AH1Z

AH1Z can take 16 ATGM and 2 sidewinders on wing tip at the same time ..If you want to equip rockets than 8 atgm+38 rockets+2 sidewinders/ or 76 rockets+2 sidewinders ..

while Z10 is capable of carrying maximum 8 ATGM+rockets(there is no provision of 16 ATGM) with rockets (if you want to carry A2A missile than you have to sacrifice the main Hard points)

Longbow radar can be installed in AH1Z while Z10 will get its radar in future (don't have yet)

Topowl HMD is being used on F16 and capable of providing high boresight and AH1Z is using these ...

 

[Zarvan]

I am not saying WZ10 is bad helicopter .. it is good and comparable with T129

but AH1Z got extra punch

Just look at weapon take off package of Z10 and AH1Z

AH1Z can take 16 ATGM and 2 sidewinders on wing tip at the same time ..If you want to equip rockets than 8 atgm+38 rockets+2 sidewinders/ or 76 rockets+2 sidewinders ..

while Z10 is capable of carrying maximum 8 ATGM+rockets(there is no provision of 16 ATGM) with rockets (if you want to carry A2A missile than you have to sacrifice the main Hard points)

Longbow radar can be installed in AH1Z while Z10 will get its radar in future (don't have yet)

Topowl HMD is being used on F16 and capable of providing high boresight and AH1Z is using these ...

WZ-10 can take 16 Anti Tank Missiles.