AH-1Z Viper, 1000 Hellfire II Missiles approved for sale to Pakistan.

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

There was no reason to not go for the z10. Whoever signed and executed this viper deal must be put on trial------.

But, it might have been done on purpose to put your neighbor inside the ring face-to-face with the tigress while you sneak out...

 

[Quwa]

US funds ?? They can keep it no pak funds only reason ordered were to utilize support funds going to OEM in USA

Pak can pay and pick them up but as t-129 are ordered chances are they will not

T-129 engine issue it’s commercial version so shouldn’t be a problem like k-8 engine

The commercial and export version is the CTS800.

The one thing they had going with the AH-1Z/T129 combo was that the AH-1Z was heavier than the T129 (8+ ton vs. 5+ ton). So without the AH-1Z, that 'heavyweight' aspect is not there, which might (or might not) leave room for an alternative, if possible. @Oscar Piloting a Mi-28NE deal with Russia (12-15 helicopters) might be interesting, especially if it's done via Rosoboronexport's local currency trade, offset and countertrade program.

 

[Mentee]

But, it might have been done on purpose to put your neighbor inside the ring face-to-face with the tigress while you sneak out...

The last time I checked zulu nation isn't ready to give us gunship tot. Don't know who might be that "secret" source when Indian aviators have already been checking out the apache cockpits for any possible bugs .

 

[LKJ86]

The one thing they had going with the AH-1Z/T129 combo was that the AH-1Z was heavier than the T129 (8+ ton vs. 5+ ton). So without the AH-1Z, that 'heavyweight' aspect is not there, which might (or might not) leave room for an alternative, if possible. @Oscar Piloting a Mi-28NE deal with Russia (12-15 helicopters) might be interesting, especially if it's done via Rosoboronexport's local currency trade, offset and countertrade program.

China is developping a new heavy attack helicopter (about 10 ton). It will make its maiden flight very soon. Maybe there will be a cooperation between China and Pakistan in the future.

 

[Basel]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1042151267563393024

Going for these instead of other available options (Mi-28, Z-10, Tiger, T-129) was a bad move, as we know that this what US do after getting the what they want from Pakistan.

Pakistan should now try to get Ka-52/Ka-52K for testing as this is one mean bird and "K" version can be used on Naval platforms with 200km range AShM capability.

The one thing they had going with the AH-1Z/T129 combo was that the AH-1Z was heavier than the T129 (8+ ton vs. 5+ ton). So without the AH-1Z, that 'heavyweight' aspect is not there, which might (or might not) leave room for an alternative, if possible. @Oscar Piloting a Mi-28NE deal with Russia (12-15 helicopters) might be interesting, especially if it's done via Rosoboronexport's local currency trade, offset and countertrade program.

Why Mi-28NE?? why not the beast Ka-52/Ka-52K to tackle enemy Armour & Ships?

 

[Mav3rick]

I say the ones who advocated and ordered these, despite the Pressler Amendment, should be given a big fat stick up their ***, it should also be full of chillies!!

 

[SQ8]

The one thing they had going with the AH-1Z/T129 combo was that the AH-1Z was heavier than the T129 (8+ ton vs. 5+ ton). So without the AH-1Z, that 'heavyweight' aspect is not there, which might (or might not) leave room for an alternative, if possible. @Oscar Piloting a Mi-28NE deal with Russia (12-15 helicopters) might be interesting, especially if it's done via Rosoboronexport's local currency trade, offset and countertrade program.

The Mi-28 is ill suited for the very agile and fast moving battlefield we are expecting- sadly, not much is there to show for it but now I would hope someone from the right ladders in SA steps in to offer the Roolivak as an alternative @denel .
As far as I can tell thought development funding has ceased and Pakistan is not rich enough to fund anything.
A better option is the KA-52 but those cost more than the Mi-28 even though they are smaller in size.

Strange. I think there were orders from other services for these same type of helicopters. Why send them to boneyard when there are potential customers lined up? These should have been sold to them directly. This looks like fake new.

Changes specific to Pakistan have been incorporated which other customers may not accept without refit.

 

[CHI RULES]

The one thing they had going with the AH-1Z/T129 combo was that the AH-1Z was heavier than the T129 (8+ ton vs. 5+ ton). So without the AH-1Z, that 'heavyweight' aspect is not there, which might (or might not) leave room for an alternative, if possible. @Oscar Piloting a Mi-28NE deal with Russia (12-15 helicopters) might be interesting, especially if it's done via Rosoboronexport's local currency trade, offset and countertrade program.

Sir the best choice tech wise is still AH1Z, considering future roles Pak should acquire Attack helis with some sort of AD capabilities i.e A2A missiles, as in case of any direct conflict the chance of A2A engagements of Helicopters shall be inevitable.

The Russian attack helicopters are though capable yet considering their low service ceiling and less powerful engines may not be better choice along with historical spares/maintenance issues most of their previous clients have faced.

The second better choice can be South African Denel Rooivalk as pointed by you also in the past.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

A blessing in disguise.....hence we are now self sufficient in making the JF-17 and soon the T129 ATAK Gunships.

but what abt that money that have been paid for them? and what abt those officers who came up with this idea on the first place to purchase from america even in these circumstances.
But cant we just close or limit their NATO supplies to make them give or co-operate with us atleast?

Really?

yes it was unique features, ie its very stealthy, u still cant hear it just 300 to 400 meters away, now imagine this at night operations in mountains? where u can hide it behind rocks or trees and suddenly come out and ambush enemy.

But problem with this helo was it could not lift its fully loaded wait, engine under performed. And specially at high altitudes it couldnt get lift off with wait....Now its company had given its max load limit both in plan areas and mountains but it even couldnt achieve that company issued limits so what to speak of hard tests to fully know the max limits of its design and capabilities etc by which it was supposed to be tested along with Atak helos.

I say the ones who advocated and ordered these, despite the Pressler Amendment, should be given a big fat stick up their ***, it should also be full of chillies!!

inquiry must be launched and they should be put to trail to be eventually court marshaled.

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1042151267563393024

Good thing army already knew this and went for, diversification through turkish, italian, chinese and russian attack helicopters. No matter what they do , i'd say good ridance america and its problems. We are better off with tech we can use to protect our people instead of white elephants which we come with strings attached. It is very good that we are moving out of American dependency. After lookimg at what USA did to its Best and most used Allies in battle (turkey and pakistan) rest of american friends like Japan india france germany and canada can know they can't depend on america for its tech. They are only good as long as you say "yes master" to the americans. Shove those attack helicopters in ur huge asses. We are buying more from trust worthy sources and hopefully will make them in pakistan to shove down those in ur throats when the time comes be it in afghanistan or syria.

American weapon shop is a bad shop they take ur money and give conditions for delivering them. Id say avoid the american weapons.

 

[prashantazazel]

Truth is, if Pakistan doesn't initiate, there won't be any future wars with neighbours. The only deterrence you need is against the US.

 

[cloud4000]

There was no reason to not go for the z10. Whoever signed and executed this viper deal must be put on trial------.

Pakistan never learns from its mistakes. Whenever there's an opening with the US, Pakistan pursues it regardless of consequences. What happened during the 1990s should have been a sobering moment but it seems to have been forgotten.

Many people on PDF are saying "never again," but we know that soon as things get better with US (once Afghanistan gets resolved) the love affair with American arms will be rekindled.

 

[That Guy]

Pakistan never learns from its mistakes. Whenever there's an opening with the US, Pakistan pursues it regardless of consequences. What happened during the 1990s should have been a sobering moment but it seems to have been forgotten.

Many people on PDF are saying "never again," but we know that soon as things get better with US (once Afghanistan gets resolved) the love affair with American arms will be rekindled.

Not really.

The fact that Pakistan is now active courting Russian, Turkish and Chinese arms manufacturers for advanced weapons systems, should be evidence that Pakistan has learned its lesson.

I can almost guarantee you that the reason why the new rifle tender is taking so long is because Pakistan does not want to deal with US systems, potential components, and potential sanctionable technologies used for those rifles.

 

[baapu]

How about buying Z-10s in Yuan's. 1 Yuan is about 17.98 PKR rupees. Why we need dollars to buy ??

best argument ever.

rouble is around Rs 1.85. all military purchase should be from Russia.


Because US is no longer giving away the Helicopter , you guys call it names , never mind bhikari was already calling americans what not.

Also the title of thread is not correct .

Those Helicopters do not BELONG TO PAKISTAN.


So now the choice is , Pay $30 million /helicopter to 15 Bell Viper helicopter or buy Z10s from China for $20 million each.
Or Buy them from Turkey ?


faqeer ko bheek nahi mili tou galiyaan.

 

[Maarkhoor]

Strange. I think there were orders from other services for these same type of helicopters. Why send them to boneyard when there are potential customers lined up? These should have been sold to them directly. This looks like fake new.

Every export jet / helo was somehow customized at some level to meet importers requirements further they need carrot or lolipop hanging to lure Pakistani Govt / military.