What's new

After US announcement, Israel orders 14,000 new settlements in Jerusalem

Here is the link for UN articles, specifically 80 and related ones. There is NOTHING about israel legal existence or right or right to import jews to occupied land...
I commend you for doing the homework. Everyone can read and understand that the U.N. has to keep its hands off the terms of the Palestine Mandate.

(Israel and Jews don't have to be named specifically, any more that your name would have to be mentioned specifically in a law or regulation about filing your car registration.)
 
.
Shame is that you are a liar. 6,000 apartments =/= 14,000 settlements.

"In total, the plans being pushed by Housing and Construction Minister Yoav Galant (Kulanu) include 14,000 new homes in four different neighborhoods, the report says."

...
...

No lies whatsoever, it's 14,000 in all of Jerusalem, 6,000 of them in East Jerusalem.
 
. .
All these East European settlers' illegal settlements should be destructed and those lands must be handed over to its original Arab Maqdisi owners...
We have these East European settlers for enough time in Palestine until their original homelands became stable and Nazis have no more power to oppress them, now it's time for them to go back to Bavaria and East Europe.
 
.
Serpentine said:
Settlers are NOT civilians.
Anyone who is not on active duty in armed forces IS civilian. There is no any law which states they are not civilians. By the way Arabs can also buy these apartments and they are buying.

They are fascist scums who have been building homes on stolen lands by force and with backing of their fascist Nazi government.
No. Israeli courts do not allow building lands on stolen lands.

That's why their killing is as much justified as killing a soldier in a war.
You are justifying war crimes and terror.

Meanwhile, true face of Nazi state of Israel.
They should have shot him or torture to death like your Shabihas are doing.

Meanwhile 3 little girls killed in their houses by Khamenai thugs today.

Falcon29 said:
"In total, the plans being pushed by Housing and Construction Minister Yoav Galant (Kulanu) include 14,000 new homes in four different neighborhoods, the report says."

...
...

No lies whatsoever, it's 14,000 in all of Jerusalem, 6,000 of them in East Jerusalem.
1) 8,000 apartments are in west Jerusalem, no relation to any "settlements"
2) Apartment is not a settlement.

You made 2 lies in one sentence, congrats.
 
.
1) 8,000 apartments are in west Jerusalem, no relation to any "settlements"
2) Apartment is not a settlement.

You made 2 lies in one sentence, congrats.

Nope, Israel refers to settlements as 'homes' because they disregard international law. They are settlements in occupied territory. Settlements are massive apartment blocs for Jewish citizens to annex West Bank territory by forcing Palestinians to land swap or simply annex West Bank completely. If there was a two state solution with West Jerusalem as your capital, then UN will not regard them illegal and after that can they be considered homes.
 
.
A combined political effort is needed. Speeches alone or even threats won't matter at all.

It's a serious development as the US is in the open at last.

I don't see what can realistically be done to change the US position? Does anyone here have a realistic proposal? If the Arab and Muslim states do something drastic in return, the US will create havoc in that country and do everything to harm it.

Therefore only a united front will work where all Muslim countries leave their differences, agendas etc. aside. Will they be able to do that in 2017?

If China, Russia and even Western European countries against this decision, want to make use of this irresponsible decision by Trump, it is now that they should prove that they stand with Arab and Muslim countries in this regard against the US decision. It would be good to have those two on the same side but are they prepared to do that? So far it seems that they do not care much in the sense that it is not their priority at all.

All these East European settlers' illegal settlements should be destructed and those lands must be handed over to its original Arab Maqdisi owners...
We have these East European settlers for enough time in Palestine until their original homelands became stable and Nazis have no more power to oppress them, now it's time for them to go back to Bavaria and East Europe.

BTW I can't believe that the US and West is silent all while those 1000's upon 1000's of illegal settlements are being built which host mainly radical and hateful people. How can the West look silently at this? I have never seen this being condemned publicly by any Western media or Western governments. It's as if those illegal settlements do not exist.

However as soon as even the smallest controversy occurs anywhere in the Arab world, those same silent media are the first to demonize that Arab country x or y and their peoples. This systematic demonization must stop. It leads to nothing good. Palestinians being who they are, are also demonized for that reason. I can't believe that supposed Muslims on this forum, play a part in this demonization of people.

It's high-time for educated Arabs and Muslims alike home and abroad, who care and want to make a difference, to try and reach positions of power or influence and try to change status quo. Otherwise nobody else will do it for us.

We are complaining on the internet but it is high time that we do something to change this status quo outside of the virtual world. Even playing a small part is highly recommended. I am not calling anyone out here but just saying the obvious.

Even if we sometimes disagree when it comes to policies that regimes in power are behind, we, at least as Arabs, need to have each others backs as nobody else will. This is what has been lacking in recent years or rather it is not shown enough by the regimes in power because the average person feels a connection by large and want the best for each other. I mean those without an agenda and who understand the larger picture.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
@Sharif al-Hijaz

Why do you want us to get in positions of power in nations with non-Arab/Muslim majorities? Why not position of power in Arab/Muslim majority nations? There are people getting involved in government positions, they are liberal and they are not able to influence anything. Doesn't matter how many of them there are, they will run into legal trouble in the US. If the Arab world was developed and secure a lot of Arabs would move back there.
 
.
@Sharif al-Hijaz

Why do you want us to get in positions of power in nations with non-Arab/Muslim majorities? Why not position of power in Arab/Muslim majority nations? There are people getting involved in government positions, they are liberal and they are not able to influence anything. Doesn't matter how many of them there are, they will run into legal trouble in the US. If the Arab world was developed and secure a lot of Arabs would move back there.

That's what the Jews have been doing in the past 300 years. Now look at their huge influence in the West despite their small numbers. There are many more Arabs and Muslims in the West than Jews and they/we all have the conditions to reach a similar influence if not outgrow it many times over. We can see that already as the current generation of Arabs compared to the first arrivals, are much better educated, have much better positions in the society and are better off financially. Their children are even doing better in universities etc.

As for the Arab world, it is not possible for the masses to change any status quo unless people are prepared for more bloodshed post-Arab Spring. Such a thing will be misused by outsiders. What can be done is pressure from within in a peaceful manner and we can see that when we look at the reactions of people on social media, media and in person in every Arab country.

It's a combined solution here as well. It cannot be done on its own or in isolation.

Anyway the question remains, what can be realistically done short-term?
 
.
That's what the Jews have been doing in the past 300 years. Now look at their huge influence in the West despite their small numbers. There are many more Arabs and Muslims in the West than Jews and they/we all have the conditions to reach a similar influence if not outgrow it many times over. We can see that already as the current generation of Arabs compared to the first arrivals, are much better educated, have much better positions in the society and are better off financially. Their children are even doing better in universities etc.

Arabs and Muslims in the West(or at least US) are not the active in politics due to fear of controversy or legal trouble. Even if they manage to get more influence in the future. They would for the most part stay on same page with standard US foreign policy that is formulated based on our interests. They can't go against our interests or advocate an ethical foreign policy let alone implement one. More importantly, ethically driven people will not grow out of the current culture in America. Best way to influence would be to influence the culture. Jews influence the culture in negative ways, they have promoted all kinds of bizarre unnatural stuff that keeps people busy but also shapes their character. That is what they rely on. They are not that dominant politically. They are dominant culturally. Arabs and Muslims in the West become secularized too. So to me I just don't see any signs of anything. Maybe in future.

As for the Arab world, it is not possible for the masses to change any status quo unless people are prepared for more bloodshed post-Arab Spring. Such a thing will be misused by outsiders. What can be done is pressure from within in a peaceful manner and we can see that when we look at the reactions of people on social media, media and in person in every Arab country.

I think this would be true for your country, and some Gulf nations, but not all Arab nations. Nevertheless we are all tired of violence, but we need to get a message across to our leaderships and keep encouraging/advising them. Social media could be very useful here. Even just tweeting at our leaders in mass would send them a message. But, then you have other Arabs probably cursing everyone on the way and accuse them of being enemies and what not. Or those tweets could you get in trouble if there is a small showing.

We should find ways to get attention of our leaders via social media. Keep everything peaceful. They don't need to do anything for Palestinians, they have much more than just that to worry about. They need to make us an effective and reasonable and prideful people again. Many Arabs are frustrated for reasons other than Palestine. So we might as well make an effort together as ordinary civilians.

Anyway the question remains, what can be realistically done short-term?

There are lots of crisis's to deal with in Arab and Muslim world. I think some of those are tied to each other. So we can't just focus on Palestine and take concrete steps for Palestine. I want to see everyone prosper and be secure and be good towards each other. I don't want people who can barely help themselves(poor nations or war ridden nations) to try to outdo themselves and contribute in any way. But, for concrete steps, there are many Arab political analysts who outline many options for our leaders but they just aren't listening. It's as if we don't have consultants or think tanks within our governments.
 
.
The Palestinian cause is a lost cause now, they couldn’t be united in the last 70 years of struggle, just see the situation in Gaza..! Is there anything more to say.
If they can’t get it right for so many decades then they surely don’t deserve a state of their own.
The neighbouring Arab countries should also be fully responsible for this situation. They couldn’t even sort out their own countries mess yet they want to solve the Palestinian problem...? Now look at these Arabs, their country and people are in total mess.
 
.
Arabs and Muslims in the West(or at least US) are not the active in politics due to fear of controversy or legal trouble. Even if they manage to get more influence in the future. They would for the most part stay on same page with standard US foreign policy that is formulated based on our interests. They can't go against our interests or advocate an ethical foreign policy let alone implement one. More importantly, ethically driven people will not grow out of the current culture in America. Best way to influence would be to influence the culture. Jews influence the culture in negative ways, they have promoted all kinds of bizarre unnatural stuff that keeps people busy but also shapes their character. That is what they rely on. They are dominant politically. They are dominant culturally. Arabs and Muslims in the West become secularized too. So to me I just don't see any signs of anything. Maybe in future.



I think this would be true for your country, and some Gulf nations, but not all Arab nations. Nevertheless we are all tired of violence, but we need to get a message across to our leaderships and keep encouraging/advising them. Social media could be very useful here. Even just tweeting at our leaders in mass would send them a message. But, then you have other Arabs probably cursing everyone on the way and accuse them of being enemies and what not. Or those tweets could you get in trouble if there is a small showing.

We should find ways to get attention of our leaders via social media. Keep everything peaceful. They don't need to do anything for Palestinians, they have much more than just that to worry about. They need to make us an effective and reasonable and prideful people again. Many Arabs are frustrated for reasons other than Palestine. So we might as well make an effort together as ordinary civilians.



There are lots of crisis's to deal with in Arab and Muslim world. I think some of those are tied to each other. So we can't just focus on Palestine and take concrete steps for Palestine. I want to see everyone prosper and be secure and be good towards each other. I don't want people who can barely help themselves(poor nations or war ridden nations) to try to outdo themselves and contribute in any way. But, for concrete steps, there are many Arab political analysts who outline many options for our leaders but they just aren't listening. It's as if we don't have consultants or think tanks within our governments.

Arabs in Europe are probably much more active than the 3.5 million or so Arabs in the US. In several EU countries there are ministers, mayors of major cities of Arab descent who are occasionally quite vocal when it comes to affairs in the Arab and Muslim world. My point is just that a combined effort is needed and everyone should do his or her own part in a way. Stick together. Speak with one voice or as few as possible.

Arabs, even if secularized, can speak about such topics. They don't necessarily need to be non-secular to speak against Israeli policies or Western hypocrisy in the Arab world or Western support for dubious Arab regimes.

I think it is truth for KSA, GCC states, Jordan, Egypt, Morocco and a few other countries. The rest are mainly in turmoil or unstable and thus have their own to look after currently. What I mean is just that we cannot expect huge changes to occur here and now. That will be a long-term process. A process that must be handled carefully by everyone involved be it regimes in power, people, clerics, people of power and influence etc. I hope you understand what I am referring to here.

Even in Palestine itself (West Bank) people who want a more direct line against Israel or a more direct response, will be fought by Abbas and his supporters. Or silenced. I think that you have alluded to the same once and talked about it in detail if I am not wrong here.

Social media is already very emotional if you take a look. From all corners.

I disagree. I think that we should all contribute in some ways. Not necessarily financially but even people in struggling Arab countries can voice their opinions via social media, contact their leaders via social media, stage demonstrations, write articles etc. If just a small minority would do that it would make a big difference just by looking at our combined numbers.

Of course in a ideal world, all Muslim countries, tomorrow morning, would boycott the US economically and make use of the comments of displeasure. I don't see such an intention and that is what makes me ask myself, what can be really done?

Anyway this did not come as a surprise at all. ALL US presidents in recent memory have been saying what Trump just finally signed. It should not really come as a surprise for anyone. With all due respect, those people who fought that the US were a honest broker in the peace process, where fooling themselves. I have been saying time and time again that Palestine and Arabs/Muslims are not only "fighting" Israel here but the US first and foremost and their allies. That's what makes this conflict so difficult. And obviously this serves Israel's interests and they do everything i their power for this to continue while Arab and Muslim countries do not have this leverage.

My point is just that we really need to develop some kind of strategy and act upon it. There is no common front right now and each state pursues its own policies and interests and within each state you have different opinions. It should not be that hard for solidarity to triumph and thus trust to be built and from there on working towards a common goal. I really don't see another solution. The military option, I see as unrealistic currently.

The Palestinian cause is a lost cause now, they couldn’t be united in the last 70 years of struggle, just see the situation in Gaza..! Is there anything more to say.
If they can’t get it right for so many decades then they surely don’t deserve a state of their own.
The neighbouring Arab countries should also be fully responsible for this situation. They couldn’t even sort out their own countries mess yet they want to solve the Palestinian problem...? Now look at these Arabs, their country and people are in total mess.

Troll post of no value. You are just writing unfunded nonsense that you have not substantiated with anything and speaking from a position of ignorance and most likely bias. Useless post. It's funny that Israel is judged by different standards. Not surprised though. It's all a part of the demonization that the media has been feeding you. Apparently Palestinians and Arabs in general do not deserve the rights that are accorded others in general and which are defended by others (international community). However the second an Israeli citizen is killed, the entire West is trying to beat each other in who gives the biggest condolence and in the quickest fashion. It's a joke. However what history has proven us, is that such behavior won't last forever.

This is not about pro-Israel or anti-Israel, this is about right or wrong. It is wrong that Palestinians have been oppressed for those many decades and denied basic rights such as the establishment of an independent Palestinian state. You cannot argue against this if you are objective. It's simple as that. Palestinians should not pay for the sins of Germans and Europeans.

And don't give me this nonsense of might is right. By this logic we can say that the US should nuke all of India tomorrow morning and the few surviving Indians would be in the wrong if they demanded justice. Or that the colonization by the Brits of India and the subsequent mass-murder (Bengali famine to mention a few examples) was right just because it was done by a stronger party. If we first begin to accept such things we might as well destroy this planet in advance because what's the point?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
@Sharif al-Hijaz

You have a realistic outlook. Development of Arab and Muslim world and achieving such status you describe is certainly long term. Palestinians don't have the luxury of tomorrow, unfortunately. Also, I wouldn't get in a trade war with the US, rather persuade them we are important strategic allies and hold large influence in the region and offset what benefit Israel could give them for them to irrationally enable Israel's occupation at the UN and not pressure it to make two state solution. That could be the case in the future, and at that point US will take it seriously and pressure Israel. By then it could be too late for Palestinians, however.

The right way to think is the realistic way, and it's the right way to operate. If you want to be safe. I believe things will unfold in a more unorthodox manner. And I personally like to approach things a bit differently if I was in charge. Whatever I say though won't interfere with the current trajectory and focus. So don't be worried by it.
 
.
Troll post of no value. You are just writing unfunded nonsense that you have not substantiated with anything and speaking from a position of ignorance and most likely bias. Useless post. It's funny that Israel is judged by different standards. Not surprised though. It's all a part of the demonization that the media has been feeding you. Apparently Palestinians and Arabs in general do not deserve the rights that are accorded others in general and which are defended by others (international community). However the second an Israeli citizen is killed, the entire West is trying to beat each other in who gives the biggest condolence and in the quickest fashion. It's a joke. However what history has proven us, is that such behavior won't last forever.
The truth hurts , I know.
Just look at the situation in Syria, Iraq , Yemen, do you think that the Arabs are governing their own people properly?
If they can’t provide for their own people how can they do something about the Palestinians?
Hiding away from the facts won’t make them go away.

If there is no unity then there is no power.
 
.
The truth hurts , I know.
Just look at the situation in Syria, Iraq , Yemen, do you think that the Arabs are governing their own people properly?
If they can’t provide for their own people how can they do something about the Palestinians?
Hiding away from the facts won’t make them go away.

If there is no unity then there is no power.

You mentioned all the examples that you could possibly mention with the exception of Libya. There are 20 + Arab countries. Most Arab countries are not in turmoil and those who are, are that for various reasons (mostly after-effects of the Arab Spring) and this won't continue forever.

It is also quite rich coming from an Indian. A country that has the highest number of poor people on the planet (almost as many as there are Arabs worldwide (500 million) and extremely low living standards and in general astoundingly few achievements and little development compared to the huge population almost approaching 1.3 BILLION people. I have nothing against India or Indians but nevertheless you cannot conclude anything else but that such comments being "rich" if you understand what I am referring to here.


This has nothing to do with what I wrote either. Israel has been in turmoil for 70 + years as well by large and the only reason why they are in less turmoil than Palestinians is largely because of the support that has arrived from the West and the continuous oopresion by the Palestinian people. Simply put, the conditions for a Palestinian to succeed are vastly worse than that of an average Israeli. And before you start some racial nonsense, 21% of Israel's population is composed of Palestinian Arabs (called "Israeli-Arabs") and most of the Israeli Jews are Arab Jews ethnically. So "success" or not has nothing to do with race here in case you are unaware of this fact.

It does not prevent people from having a united front and speaking in the same voice. Both a rich and poor person can do that. And this is not only about Arabs but Muslims as well because Muslims worldwide care too and their governments comment on this crisis as well. This conflict is not about ethnicity but about what is right and what is wrong. This is why people from all corners of the world, of all religions, political views and social status are involved in this conflict. Which is why millions of Westerners support Palestine. You are the one that looks at this from a solely religious and racial viewpoint for some reason.

Could it be due to your hatred for Islam and Arabs (for God knows what reason) as a Indian based in France? I am just asking.

@Sharif al-Hijaz

You have a realistic outlook. Development of Arab and Muslim world and achieving such status you describe is certainly long term. Palestinians don't have the luxury of tomorrow, unfortunately. Also, I wouldn't get in a trade war with the US, rather persuade them we are important strategic allies and hold large influence in the region and offset what benefit Israel could give them for them to irrationally enable Israel's occupation at the UN and not pressure it to make two state solution. That could be the case in the future, and at that point US will take it seriously and pressure Israel. By then it could be too late for Palestinians, however.

The right way to think is the realistic way, and it's the right way to operate. If you want to be safe. I believe things will unfold in a more unorthodox manner. And I personally like to approach things a bit differently if I was in charge. Whatever I say though won't interfere with the current trajectory and focus. So don't be worried by it.

BTW not sure if you have noticed the recent comments against KSA by Tillerson. Contrary to what some people believe in or media have reported, I believe that MbS was strongly surprised and even angry by this decision of Trump. And not only KSA but many other Arab states who have neutral or non-hostile ties with the US. Just look at the strong reaction by Jordan.

I am not against an more unorthodox approach I just believe that it is important that we think closely about a long-term strategy that must be united. Otherwise I am afraid that it won't work. I am even, for instance, willing to work with enemy/hostile entities such as the Iranian regime, Hezbollah and everyone else on this topic as long as there will be no backstabbing or a hidden agenda or some party trying to take all the "credit". I am sick and tired of this mutual demonization that has nothing to do with Islam, justice or even common sense. Just silly rivalries and fight for power that the average person is a hostage of and forced to take a stance on.

It should be a honest approach and alliance on this front. It would be a very good thing and a strong message but it is unfortunately unlikely. I am all for working for the better good. Everything else won't help any party long-term, only short-term.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom