After the screw up - a catharsis

[Ghazwa-e-Hind]

Foreign policy guidelines for Pakistan:

"Never will the Jews or Christians be pleased with you, until you follow their faith. Say, “Allah’s guidance is the only ˹true˺ guidance.” And if you were to follow their desires after ˹all˺ the knowledge that has come to you, there would be none to protect or help you against Allah." Quran 2:120

"O believers! Take neither Jews nor Christians as guardians—they are guardians of each other.1 Whoever does so will be counted as one of them. Surely Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people." Quran 5:51

 

[Norwegian]

4. Clearly that is working- the goldfish that are Pakistani people who swim to each splash only to forget in 10 seconds what it was about will forget and be ok with criminal overlords by the end of the year. They simply are too well fed, selfish and generally lazy to undertake any revolution despite a lot of ruckes for now. Revolution requires more than one face of dynamic leadership which PTI lacks.

Total BS. People haven't forgotten anything. If they did why is there such a harsh public sentiment against this imported govt of criminals and crooks on bail? With time people will hate them more not less. This is exactly the same miscalculation establishment made when it went ahead with installing US backed puppets.

 

[M. Sarmad]

They didn’t help those Judiciary relationships play out but didn’t stop it either. Only manipulating the references against the Chief.

They (Bajwa and co.) indeed made the judges do what they did
PMLN was in fact not even willing to become a part of this earlier on. They didn't trust Bajwa (they still don't). It was Zardari who got a "deal" with the establishment and then convinced PMLN to 'play along'.

 

[MIRauf]

The amount of rot the two dynasties have left in state institutions by PML(N) and PPP will take decades to clean using normal channels.

SQ8, not directed at you, not meant to be if it comes out as such, apologizes in advance in case if it sounds as such.

So if I read this just one line out of this post, then is the Establishment / Hawks letting Junta wake up and clean the mess they created or are credited for creating ? I would hate to see Karachi or any other Metropolis in Pak be like Cairo or Tripoli during Arab Spring.

PS: Question to well versed folks in Pak Politics and Military relationship, again if I took it totally out of context then please do correct me and not lambast me for not knowing the subject.

Kind regards.

 

[HaMoTZeMaS]

1. Starlink isn’t coming to Pakistan but other than shutting down internet entirely there is no way to control what is happening.

2. The establishment was actually as neutral as it could go this time and let the rotten system built by the PML(N) and PPP take its course.
The only interference they did was to use their relationship with the United States to try and smooth things out after the Russia fiasco which was the final nail in the coffin of a brash IK. In some ways IK in this stubbornness is responsible for rocking the boat in a haphazard manner that everyone is disorientated.

3.The establishment were expecting to be left out and continue golfing at Chinar golf club during spring bloom while the people hated on the PML and PPP then come back around the next elections just to ensure free and fair ones even if it meant IK coming back with a majority.
Hoping to patch up then and advise IK to be more astute in picking team and political players along with building the right relationships abroad.

4. Clearly that is working- the goldfish that are Pakistani people who swim to each splash only to forget in 10 seconds what it was about will forget and be ok with criminal overlords by the end of the year. They simply are too well fed, selfish and generally lazy to undertake any revolution despite a lot of ruckes for now. Revolution requires more than one face of dynamic leadership which PTI lacks.

5. Technically YO are more technology astute then any of their seniors ever were or will be. Centcom has its rep here as well so PR and information warfare is practiced by most evolved militaries. Just not against what are at the end their own people.

1
shutting down is not an option

2
staying neutral was and has been good approach from beginning, however it was never guaranteed to End Well
There must have been considerations about to which extent of being Neutral

3
Did they not calculated for the worst may come and then how would they be handling it... No matter how well Planners Plan, Nature has its own ways of Surprising Humans

4
People have fish memory, However Technology Dont
Repetition of what people has been watching in a decade or so, impacting this theory of Fishi memory of Pakistani
Somehow, they are starting to remember the events of past... So here we are

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Russia fiasco

Exactly what was the 'fiasco'? A visit aranged prior to Ukraine flaring up and advice taken from all including military.

 

[Olympus81]

If the Establishment wants to reverse their mistakes and announce elections, Imran Khan should not let the establishment go scot free.

Why the hell should the public allow a a screw up of gigantic proportion by the establishment by merely reversing their wrongs and move ahead with the status quo.

Imran Khan/PTI/public should be asking for a pound of flesh. Whatever the negotiations, it should entail complete withdrawal of military’s role in politics.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

I have comanded over the armies, but couldn't over a lady - Mustafa Kemal Pasha upon his divorce from Latife Hanam

IK needs to discard the likes of Bajwa, BZ, NS, SS etc. and move on, if necessary all alone.....

 

[Imran Khan]

its high time military should clean own house

 

[SQ8]

They (Bajwa and co.) indeed made the judges do what they did
PMLN was in fact not even willing to become a part of this earlier on. They didn't trust Bajwa (they still don't). It was Zardari who got a "deal" with the establishment and then convinced PMLN to 'play along'.

Ok, if they did and PML(N) played patsy in all of this - then the obstinate judiciary which was having its own tussles with the establishment suddenly decides to bow down?
Because what was clear is that the behind the scenes meetings were in progress for the last 6 months - yet that America letter gets everything to fall in place?
So, in a nutshell Pakistan is so incompetent and essentially a zombie in its process that they can’t even do political engineering on their own and it takes a kick in the butt from the US to get even a disorganized military to salute and Make things work?

If that is the case Pakistanis should commit hara kiri at the level of apathy they have achieved? Unless I am missing something here in terms of how hapless Pakistanis are in general.

Exactly what was the 'fiasco'? A visit aranged prior to Ukraine flaring up and advice taken from all including military.

Still a fiasco regardless of the calculations from all parties involved.

 

[SQ8]

SQ8, not directed at you, not meant to be if it comes out as such, apologizes in advance in case if it sounds as such.

So if I read this just one line out of this post, then is the Establishment / Hawks letting Junta wake up and clean the mess they created or are credited for creating ? I would hate to see Karachi or any other Metropolis in Pak be like Cairo or Tripoli during Arab Spring.

PS: Question to well versed folks in Pak Politics and Military relationship, again if I took it totally out of context then please do correct me and not lambast me for not knowing the subject.

Kind regards.

In my opinion, the “establishment” built that system - so that you call to them again . Not by some long term conspiracy(maybe with the dicators) but more like a common wisdom once they get to a particular rank. Now when they tried to eject out of it as such thinking IK was their messiah(yes a common Pakistani complex) it didn’t work.

Either stay out from a what isn’t necessary your business day 1 or suffer the “sins of the father” just as every corps commanders conference does of Ayub, Zia and Musharraf

 

[DocEinstein]

I have bad news. Situation could have been salvaged tomorrow if army was the cause. Instead, its grand aqa Amreeka pulling the strings and it does not give a damn especially when the country is thousands of miles away - a country bubba america could not identify on the map if his life depended on it . America could kill thousands of Pakistanis and no one could give a damn.

Against grand aqa america, even the mighty Pakistani army does not stand a chance. One reason is that grand aqa has in its pocket, two important organs of the state namely judiciary and the press. I dont mention politicians for obvious reasons. So if army had acted against grand hukkum, press (local and foreign) would have been activated and army and IK would have been painted as rogue agents. CIA would have bumped off couple anti-army politicians and journalists and finger would obviously be pointed on gunday security agencies and its ally IK. We know what would happen next.

Seeing writing on the wall, army had no choice but to turn "neutral" because high command knows it is on a hiding to nothing if stood on the way of grand aqa. Pakistani society is much too fractious and clueless to fight nefarious forces at play. Even if Jinnah was to arise from the dead, he would have no chance because dirty elements within Pakistani society would work to bring him down just in the same manner as they did when he was alive. Dont forget that after 1946 elections, ML despite being the largest party in Punjab assembly, could not form the government because the rump Unionist party allied with non-muslims. We see the repeat of same situation in existing Punjab assembly. In the current situation substitute hindus with munafiqs who dishonour the quran by taking false oath.

Given reality, army chose the rational course which is to turn "neutral". Cat is away so out come the mice. Lucky for Pakistan, grand aqa is slightly less grand thanks in part to social media. Awam which allowed itself to be fooled when Kiyani turned rogue, has developed an imperfect understanding of reality. Imperfect because fingers are being pointed towards small aqa rather than the grand aqa.

Army however cannot escape the blame. They should war-gamed for the situation. But they did not. I am however optimistic. All though there might be a couple of rogue generals, there are enough good men who will ensure Jinnah's holy miracle will not go to waste.

Ameen.

Ameen.
P.S : Only to the last line of your post though....

 

[Verve]

It was Bajwa and co. behind this all along
They just got exposed in the end

Bajwa and Co played the game from 2018 GE throughout. Stolen seats for wafer thin majority with owned MNAs installed to pull the plug when the threat from US came.

Establishment is playing a dangerous game with China. Only idiots believe that China would continue and expand the relationship irrespective of Establishment and puppet government bowing to USA.

This has become a power struggle for Establishment, it genuinely fears a strong IK.

 

[Sinnerman108]

@WebMaster Qibla, why move this thread from Pak Army to here ?

Does one of your mods think, Army was not in the political business ?
and since they were and are running the political show, and the main focus of this fiasco
then why not keep the thread where it belong.

I mean come on ... they created a mess, why not own up to it ?

 

[M. Sarmad]

Ok, if they did and PML(N) played patsy in all of this - then the obstinate judiciary which was having its own tussles with the establishment suddenly decides to bow down?

Notwithstanding the 'pretensions' put forth in various forms, every Chief Justice since Jawwad Khawaja has got along pretty well with the Military Establishment.