After BKU attack, TTP coming apart at the seams

[Solomon2]

Indians are working under the shelter of USA,.. without USA, India wud never had been in Afghanistan,.

I don't do videos.

You do understand that we are not Arabs, and we got our own ways to do and analysis things? We dont jump to conclusions randomly. There is a long chain of events , geo politics, alliances, and above all religious symbolism and faith at play here.

No, sir! Pakistanis "jump to conclusions" not "randomly" but by prejudice and ideology - not evidence. That's why majority of Pakistanis believe CIA/Israelis/RAW destroyed the Twin Towers, yes?

...Religious fanatics not only exists in Muslim lands, but they are more powerful in non muslim nations, infact they are in control. If I replace "Israel" with "Zionists", would that make more sense to you, though for me, its the same thing.

According to Pakistan's H.E.C., no Pakistani immersed in Pakistan's education system is fit to judge on Israel or Zionism matters: link

 

[Taimoor Khan]

I don't do videos.

No, sir! Pakistanis "jump to conclusions" not "randomly" but by prejudice and ideology - not evidence. That's why majority of Pakistanis believe CIA/Israelis/RAW destroyed the Twin Towers, yes?

According to Pakistan's H.E.C., no Pakistani immersed in Pakistan's education system is fit to judge on Israel or Zionism matters: link

No my dear, we are seeing plenty of evidence in your rather prolonged honeymoon with our mortal enemy on our east, the manifestation of which we have seen during the Kargil war, Kashmir uprising, the cajoling of our eastern neighbor in American power circles who are under the control of you know who. and many many more.

Dont you think the link you provided doesn't make any sense in the face of glaring reality that Islamic state of Pakistan do not recognize the Zionist state of Israel? The link and the subject discussed are irrelevant. We can only promote stuff which officially exists for us. Anything against the state policy is like promoting falsehood. Any self respecting nation would adhere to that.

 

[Solomon2]

No my dear, we are seeing plenty of evidence -

Empty briefcases do not constitute evidence.

We can only promote stuff which officially exists for us. Anything against the state policy is like promoting falsehood. Any self respecting nation would adhere to that.

You're just underlining that to you "truth" is a political matter, not an objective reality. So there's not much one can trust about anything you write, save perhaps your feelings, is there?

You are so deeply immersed in moral corruption you don't recognize it even when you tell of it, yes?

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Empty briefcases do not constitute evidence.

You're just underlining that to you "truth" is a political matter, not an objective reality. So there's not much one can trust about anything you write, save perhaps your feelings, is there?

You are so deeply immersed in moral corruption you don't recognize it even when you tell of it, yes?

Do you expect me to reply to one liners? I have already given you a very descriptive idea of our perception about your country. Please dont moan if we tomorrow, start inviting Hasan Nassurallah as state guest and start arming him with our stuff in the name of "simple business". If you are clever enough, you will get the drift.

Just say that I trust my deep state, its policy makers who long ago recognize a threat to my country. Hence why my passport say "This is valid for all states except Israel".

 

[Solomon2]

Do you expect me to reply to one liners? I have already given you a very descriptive idea of our perception about your country.

I don't dispute that. I'm pointing out that it's a perception that's not only erroneous but morally corrupt - something for you to be ashamed of and work to change, for the betterment of all, and especially to resolve the moral corruption that plagues Pakistan and results in misgovernment and terror at home.

Just say that I trust my deep state, its policy makers who long ago recognize a threat to my country.

You can calm down: the founders of Pakistan never considered Zionism a "threat". Rather, they saw the idea Zionism as both inspiration and (through the Khalifat movement) tool to mobilize the separation of India's Muslims from India's Hindu majority.

Hence why my passport say "This is valid for all states except Israel".

That's an expression of the ideology. I think it's outdated and can be dropped now. Israel-hatred is a kind of luxury - that's certainly how Erdogan saw it - to be dropped when it's no longer profitable or useful. Pakistan no longer needs Israel-hatred to keep the state together - indeed, it's most often used as a wedge to drive apart unity, yes?

 

[Taimoor Khan]

I don't dispute that. I'm pointing out that it's a perception that's not only erroneous but morally corrupt - something for you to be ashamed of and work to change, for the betterment of all, and especially to resolve the moral corruption that plagues Pakistan and results in misgovernment and terror at home.

You can calm down: the founders of Pakistan never considered Zionism a "threat". Rather, they saw the idea Zionism as both inspiration and (through the Khalifat movement) tool to mobilize the separation of India's Muslims from India's Hindu majority.

That's an expression of the ideology. I think it's outdated and can be dropped now. Israel-hatred is a kind of luxury - that's certainly how Erdogan saw it - to be dropped when it's no longer profitable or useful. Pakistan no longer needs Israel-hatred to keep the state together - indeed, it's most often used as a wedge to drive apart unity, yes?

Are you deliberately trying to ignore of what I am saying to you? We dont go out seeking enemies just for the sake of it as if we are not surrounded by enough already. If Zionism was not bad enough, your constant and persistence support to our mortal enemy is giving us more reasons to be strongly weary of you. And stop this sentimental BS, morally repugnant or not, you clearly have no idea of threat perception. I have given you example of Hasan Nasarullah, go and ponder over it, and ofcourse we in Pakistan are not involved in such support to entities in Middle East, but you are already in bed with our mortal enemy. Do you really have any case to sell yourself to Pakistan?

Jinnah Quotes:

""May I point out to Great Britain that this question of Palestine, if not fairly and squarely met, boldly and courageously decided, is going to be the turning point in the history of the British Empire. I am sure I am speaking not only of the Mussalmans of India but of the world, and all sections of right thinking and fair-minded people will agree when I say that Great Britain will be digging its grave if she fails to honour her original proclamation, promises and intentions-pre-war."

"The way in which the British Government have hitherto dealt with the Arabs is the greatest blot on their national honour."

"But no nation, no people who are worth living as a nation, can achieve anything great without making great sacrifices, such as the Arabs of Palestine are making. All our sympathies are with those valiant martyrs who are fighting the battle of freedom against usurpers."

"If President Roosevelt, under the pressure of the powerful world Jewry, commits the blunder of forcing the British Government to do injustice to the Arabs in Palestine, it will set the whole Muslim world ablaze from one end to another. Grave wrongs had already been done to the Arabs. If the Jewish immigration is allowed to continue, I have no doubt that not only the Muslim League will revolt but the whole Muslim world will revolt."

"We cannot remain silent and we must assure the Arabs that Indian Muslims will stand by them."


Want more???


Stop this non sense about "Hating" Israel. And trust me, we dont give a monkey about Israel, let alone being perceived as some sort of gel which keep our nation intact. what non sense! We got bigger fishes to fry. we have threat perception, which we have understood very well albeit after sacrificing 50000 citizens, and recent events of world history specially after 9/11 have solidify those concerns.

 

[Solomon2]

Are you deliberately trying to ignore of what I am saying to you? We dont go out seeking enemies just for the sake of it -

I addressed that, didn't I?

morally repugnant or not, you clearly have no idea of threat perception...you are already in bed with our mortal enemy.

Well, if you're choosing to promote hysteria, that makes you part of the problem, doesn't it?

Do you really have any case to sell yourself to Pakistan?

Why would I be selling myself? Do you think I'm here to be liked?

I am sure I am speaking not only of the Mussalmans of India but of the world, and all sections of right thinking and fair-minded people will agree when I say that Great Britain will be digging its grave if she fails to honour her original proclamation, promises and intentions-pre-war.

You do know such quotes best illustrate my arguments, not yours, don't you?

Stop this non sense about "Hating" Israel. And trust me, we dont give a monkey about Israel, let alone being perceived as some sort of gel which keep our nation intact. what non sense! We got bigger fishes to fry -

If you don't hate Israel, then why support those who advocate exterminating its Jewish population?

. we have threat perception, which we have understood very well albeit after sacrificing 50000 citizens, and recent events of world history specially after 9/11 have solidify those concerns.

Ah, so you DO remember the thread topic. I was starting to wonder...well, why not reconsider the anti-Israel stance? Because otherwise you're giving an ideological leg to the terrorists who want to blow up Pakistani schools, right? Stand with Israel and assert the primacy of truth, life, love, and human rights over terror. That robs the terrorists of their ideological basis.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

I addressed that, didn't I?

Well, if you're choosing to promote hysteria, that makes you part of the problem, doesn't it?

Why would I be selling myself? Do you think I'm here to be liked?
You do know such quotes best illustrate my arguments, not yours, don't you?

If you don't hate Israel, then why support those who advocate exterminating its Jewish population?

Ah, so you DO remember the thread topic. I was starting to wonder...well, why not reconsider the anti-Israel stance? Because otherwise you're giving an ideological leg to the terrorists who want to blow up Pakistani schools, right? Stand with Israel and assert the primacy of truth, life, love, and human rights over terror. That robs the terrorists of their ideological basis.

You addressed what? You cant even understand what I am saying to you!

READ the whole quote. Selective hearing and reading is a disease. Did you read the other quotes as well? And do you still believe my founding father appreciated Zionism?

What the hell did I just here? Exterminating Jews? as if they are bunch of rats? Where did I give you this impression? On the contrary, you lot are in bed with those, as we speak, who have never excepted my country and will not waste any opportunity to harm my motherland. Dont talk bullsh|t here with me son.

Understand what "threat perception" means. Its beyond some lousy and childish statement like Mullah ideology or what not.

 

[Solomon2]

You addressed what? You cant even understand what I am saying to you!

"Pakistanis "jump to conclusions" not "randomly" but by prejudice and ideology - not evidence. That's why majority of Pakistanis believe CIA/Israelis/RAW destroyed the Twin Towers, yes?"

READ the whole quote. Selective hearing and reading is a disease. Did you read the other quotes as well? And do you still believe my founding father appreciated Zionism?

I never wrote that Jinnah APPRECIATED Zionism. In opposing Zionism he employed it as a battle cry - here to threaten the Brits with.

The quote itself is from 1937, in the midst of the 1936-39 Arab "revolt" in Palestine against Britain's administration as trustee of the League of Nations' Mandate of Palestine. Not quite sure what promises Jinnah was referring to. Of course the problem with invoking "justice" was that the terms of the Mandate - endorsed, if you recall, by the Caliph in the Treaty of Sevres - make it quite, quite, clear that it was the Arabs who were the criminal culprits, not the Brits and not the Jews. They were supposed to respect the civil and property rights of the Jews that existed under the Ottomans since the tanzimat reforms.

What the hell did I just here? Exterminating Jews? as if they are bunch of rats? Where did I give you this impression?

When you mentioned, repeatedly, supporting Nasrallah, whose organization vows to exterminate Israel.

On the contrary, you lot are in bed with those, as we speak, who have never excepted my country and will not waste any opportunity to harm my motherland. Dont talk bullsh|t here with me son.

You don't talk that way about any other country India has similar or even deeper relations with, do you? Nor do you remember the support Israel has given Pakistan in the past - like supplying Zia with Soviet-made arms during the Afghan-Soviet war. Can you tell, now, that your judgment is completely warped?

Understand what "threat perception" means. Its beyond some lousy and childish statement like Mullah ideology or what not.

Well, then, maybe I don't understand what "threat perception" means. Be specific.

 

[haviZsultan]

Oh, really? linky, please.
What, you think Indians obey U.S. commands? That's really far out. But Pakistanis are all about group-think, right? If everyone believes it that makes it "true", yes?

Of course as the father and mother of RAW and India which has surpassed Saudi Arabia as America's largest weapons importer you feel inclined to defend the organization that is causing chaos in Balochistan and FATA. Even RAW however knows that America changes underwear, dirty underwear constantly and they will be abandoned the moment their existence has no purpose. This is American doctrine and policy. Pakistan has suffered enough from the Presler Amendment.

China and Russia have no demands hence they are much better allies. America my hope is it will become irrelevant as Chinese power rises. Then some mad idiotic mullah fathered by the USA and its policies will start blowing things up. When that happens there will again be a typical hue and cry from Americans and war across the world. A strong policy of non intervention can save America from the hatred it receives but when we have the America's mullah equivalent Solomon on this site who will not once admit the links of Mullah and America co. So who am I talking to? A wall?

 

[Solomon2]

Of course as the father and mother of RAW and India which has surpassed Saudi Arabia as America's largest weapons importer you feel inclined to defend the organization that is causing chaos in Balochistan and FATA. Even RAW however knows that America changes underwear, dirty underwear constantly -

You're in your own world, hZ. Amusing, but that's no reason for anyone, including yourself, to take it seriously:

...inventing and narrating conspiracy theories is a favourite pastime of certain segments of society. These theories are further spread through the media. The exponents of conspiracy theories never express penitence or regret once the unfolding of events prove them wrong -

...The reason we need to desist from the tendency to believe in conspiracy theories is that they exonerate leaders, government servants and decision-makers actually responsible for running state affairs. Saying that RAW was behind the attack on the Sri Lanka cricket team absolves our own law-enforcement and intelligence agencies of any responsibility.

Blaming external forces for all the ills this country is plagued with, shields inefficient leaders. Alleging the involvement of RAW in militancy in Balochistan tends to hide the injustices done to the people of this province by successive regimes. The theory that India never accepted the creation of Pakistan promotes hatred and hampers peace efforts in the region. Instead of formulating conspiracy theories, we must look into ourselves and see what we have done wrong — and learn from those mistakes.

- The writer is a retired brigadier who has served in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa and Fata
​

Oh, and will you read that book I recommended?

​

 

[haviZsultan]

You're in your own world, hZ. Amusing, but that's no reason for anyone, including yourself, to take it seriously:

...inventing and narrating conspiracy theories is a favourite pastime of certain segments of society. These theories are further spread through the media. The exponents of conspiracy theories never express penitence or regret once the unfolding of events prove them wrong -

...The reason we need to desist from the tendency to believe in conspiracy theories is that they exonerate leaders, government servants and decision-makers actually responsible for running state affairs. Saying that RAW was behind the attack on the Sri Lanka cricket team absolves our own law-enforcement and intelligence agencies of any responsibility.

Blaming external forces for all the ills this country is plagued with, shields inefficient leaders. Alleging the involvement of RAW in militancy in Balochistan tends to hide the injustices done to the people of this province by successive regimes. The theory that India never accepted the creation of Pakistan promotes hatred and hampers peace efforts in the region. Instead of formulating conspiracy theories, we must look into ourselves and see what we have done wrong — and learn from those mistakes.

- The writer is a retired brigadier who has served in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa and Fata
​

Oh, and will you read that book I recommended?

​

The fathers and mothers of Taliban are telling us what and how we should believe or how we should behave.

Indians are working under the shelter of USA,.. without USA, India wud never had been in Afghanistan,.

The question is why the government does not take this up? Foreign involvement in funding terrorism in Pakistan is clear. We need to take some major steps to curb foreign funded militancy.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

"Pakistanis "jump to conclusions" not "randomly" but by prejudice and ideology - not evidence. That's why majority of Pakistanis believe CIA/Israelis/RAW destroyed the Twin Towers, yes?"

What twin towers got to do with my country, my state? We are talking about Pakistan and Israel here. Mind you, there are more non Pakistanis/Muslims who are working and proving with solid evidence that 9/11 was inisde job. So lets cut the cr@p and talk about issue which we can discuss bilaterally, between the two of us. Go back me read my comment again. This is what I wrote, "If Zionism was not bad enough, your constant and persistence support to our mortal enemy is giving us more reasons to be strongly weary of you". Even a school boy would understand and here you are dragging into twin tower debate which is not Pakistan specific rather a global phenomena, with global audience pointing fingers as to who was behind it.

I never wrote that Jinnah APPRECIATED Zionism. In opposing Zionism he employed it as a battle cry - here to threaten the Brits with.

READ the whole lot of quotes which I posted above. You mentioned "the founders of Pakistan never considered Zionism a "threat", . My founding father did consider Zionism as repugnant and filthy ideology, and one can only issue battle cry against perceived enemies, not friends. I hope i am clear now. and this is the last of our discussion on this particular matter.

When you mentioned, repeatedly, supporting Nasrallah, whose organization vows to exterminate Israel.

You are so pathetically devoid of intellectual acumen that you cant even understand what the other party is saying. Is that because you are indoctrinated in believing that being a Jew, whatever one say is right? The "choosen one" syndrome? READ again what I said. Nasrallah was used as a example, as in WHAT IF. YOUR country is supporting, as we speak, by ALL MEAN necessary MY mortal enemy which is India, against my country. Even utilizing Zionist influence in American power circles to project my mortal enemy against my country. There are countless defence related project Israel is supporting India with sole aim to undermine Pakistan's national security. India given chance would be shy away from eliminating Pakistan without having second thought. With this background, now are we supporting Nassarullah or his organization? Have we provided any lethal arms to the neighbors of Israel which will comprise its security? Have we? And if we in future decide, enough is enough, it will be only you who to blame. If someone in your security establisment think that by cajoling India, Paksitan can be arm twisted, that equalent like living in fools paradise, This was, is and will only make more enemies for you in Pakistan. We aint stupid, we know what is going on in between you two.

You don't talk that way about any other country India has similar or even deeper relations with, do you? Nor do you remember the support Israel has given Pakistan in the past - like supplying Zia with Soviet-made arms during the Afghan-Soviet war. Can you tell, now, that your judgment is completely warped?

We dont give monkeys to India. At best we like to keep them at arms length, its only our corrupt leaders who are willingly or unwillingly due to external pressure are trying to portray as business as usual with India where it is not as in ground reality. Our COAS has already declared India as the only external threat to Pakistan.

And cut the cr@p. you just wanted to be seen as part of coalition against the soviets and expressed your desire to Zia who very famously said that if the weapon containers dont have the star of david, he has no objection. Your contribution to that war was negligible and whatever you supplied was meant for the Afghans. You support was neither needed or asked for. Infact we started the war on our own, even America jumped in later after realizing what was happening to the soviets.

Well, then, maybe I don't understand what "threat perception" means. Be specific.

Read above comments about your military relations with India.