Afghans flee shelling from Pakistan: official, witnesses

[MilSpec]

my question back to you was your view about collateral damage I take it you accept it and justify it
at least you are consistant.

and so am I
the difference is... I oppose the collateral damage from both sides
whatever sugar coated name we give it... its plain murder.

reminds me the time of the conclusion of 2nd word war when Allied forces started fire bombing the civilians in Germany and Japan to bring them to submission. sadly for Japan it included not one but 2 atomic bombs. they called it morale bombing... to break the will of the people of Germany and Japan but in plain terms it was civilian murder.

the difference is premeditated or accidental. refer to the Afghan villagers fleeing the village in Kunduz fearing the NATO attacks and alas they were marked by the Americans and hunted down in the hills although they could clearly see women and children accompanying the fleeing villagers who wanted to be out of the way of the fight between the Americans and Taliban, the other one was the day time murder of the tribesmen in FATA the open gathering, a reprisal from Panetta for keeping his blackops murderer (aka diplomat Raymond).

the civilian deaths always play in the hands of the terrorists. even if they dont.. there is simply no justification. yes its a reality of war but its a fine line that differentiates soldiers from terrorists.

I dont support this shelling which has the potential to bring civilian life in danger. but I am loss for alternatives to be honest with you.

-we cant send our troops there because that will be used as an argument of us supporting Haqqanis. I can imagine few dead or captured Pakistani soldiers being paraded in front of the cameras with claims that they were supporting Haqqanis

-we might be able to do air strikes but they have same risk for civilian loss of life like artillery & secondly this option can cause a possible confrontation with NATO forces.

-which leaves us with artillery. which still needs forward observers or markers who would identity TTP concentration and request fire. depending on the range, an artillery projectile can t from field artillery aka about 30 to 40 seconds to reach the target and then there is the consideration of population & ever mobile enemy.

the dream solution is forces on either side actually coordinating their attacks and encircling the taliban.. like it was done in the past operations named in hammer and anvil. but that cooperation is good as dead.

Arty Shelling for COIN operations? Why not hot pursuit, PA has enough clout to enter afghan territory. Send your SSG and take them out

 

[Imran Khan]

Arty Shelling for COIN operations? Why not hot pursuit, PA has enough clout to enter afghan territory. Send your SSG and take them out

its like human did with bugs or fly we just throw few shells to keep them away

 

[MilSpec]

its like human did with bugs or fly we just throw few shells to keep them away

Although I dont think/hope thats the view of PA, I hope such drastic measures were taken due to operational and geographical difficulties

 

[pakdefender]

Seeing that Pakistan is retaliating with force against Indian backed shenanigans from Afghanistan is making the poor Indian twitch
BOMB voyage dirty terrorists! BOMB voyage
Artillery is just the right treatment for them

 

[SMC]

Remember that when you cry a river next time against a drone strike in Waziristan

It goes both ways. The bharatis and Americans use the same argument when doing drone attacks in Pakistan. So you're no less a hypocrite here.

 

[Edevelop]

Thats right. Destroy TTP:

 

[Sher Malang]

Show me one shell that has fallen on a terrorist or a civilian? I don't know what is PA up to totally wrong move by Pakistan and they should be assured that they shall not cry for increasing Indian support in Afghanistan - North, West, Central Afghanistan were already against Pakistan and now when they are shelling eastern Afghanistan they will lose the support of majority of Pashtuns since they have asked the government to equip them and allow them to attack Pakistani positions!

 

[karan.1970]

It goes both ways. The bharatis and Americans use the same argument when doing drone attacks in Pakistan. So you're no less a hypocrite here.

Show me a post where I have argued against these strikes.. On the other hand, Pakistani members are such cry babies when it comes to drone strikes against the terrorists on the Pakistani soil

 

[clmeta]

To say India is supporting Taliban is the biggest joke I have heard.

Seeing that Pakistan is retaliating with force against Indian backed shenanigans from Afghanistan is making the poor Indian twitch
BOMB voyage dirty terrorists! BOMB voyage
Artillery is just the right treatment for them

 

[karan.1970]

my question back to you was your view about collateral damage I take it you accept it and justify it
at least you are consistant.

and so am I
the difference is... I oppose the collateral damage from both sides
whatever sugar coated name we give it... its plain murder.

reminds me the time of the conclusion of 2nd word war when Allied forces started fire bombing the civilians in Germany and Japan to bring them to submission. sadly for Japan it included not one but 2 atomic bombs. they called it morale bombing... to break the will of the people of Germany and Japan but in plain terms it was civilian murder.

the difference is premeditated or accidental. refer to the Afghan villagers fleeing the village in Kunduz fearing the NATO attacks and alas they were marked by the Americans and hunted down in the hills although they could clearly see women and children accompanying the fleeing villagers who wanted to be out of the way of the fight between the Americans and Taliban, the other one was the day time murder of the tribesmen in FATA the open gathering, a reprisal from Panetta for keeping his blackops murderer (aka diplomat Raymond).

the civilian deaths always play in the hands of the terrorists. even if they dont.. there is simply no justification. yes its a reality of war but its a fine line that differentiates soldiers from terrorists.

I dont support this shelling which has the potential to bring civilian life in danger. but I am loss for alternatives to be honest with you.

-we cant send our troops there because that will be used as an argument of us supporting Haqqanis. I can imagine few dead or captured Pakistani soldiers being paraded in front of the cameras with claims that they were supporting Haqqanis

-we might be able to do air strikes but they have same risk for civilian loss of life like artillery & secondly this option can cause a possible confrontation with NATO forces.

-which leaves us with artillery. which still needs forward observers or markers who would identity TTP concentration and request fire. depending on the range, an artillery projectile can t from field artillery aka about 30 to 40 seconds to reach the target and then there is the consideration of population & ever mobile enemy.

the dream solution is forces on either side actually coordinating their attacks and encircling the taliban.. like it was done in the past operations named in hammer and anvil. but that cooperation is good as dead.

No disagreement on the philosophy. Arty fire by Pakistan or Drone attacks by USA are not the ideal solution, but seem to be the only one available in the given scenario. Unfortunately both carry with them the cost of collateral damage. But in my view that is more acceptable than not acting at all

 

[Areesh]

Show me one shell that has fallen on a terrorist or a civilian? I don't know what is PA up to totally wrong move by Pakistan and they should be assured that they shall not cry for increasing Indian support in Afghanistan - North, West, Central Afghanistan were already against Pakistan and now when they are shelling eastern Afghanistan they will lose the support of majority of Pashtuns since they have asked the government to equip them and allow them to attack Pakistani positions!

OMG. These ungrateful Afghans will hate us even more. Pity.

 

[Icarus]

Its a chicken and an egg story mate. Humiliation followed discovery of Pakistan sleeping with the enemy.

Which we have pointed out was not the case. See, we are poles a part on all matters, an alliance under such circumstances is best forsaken.

 

[RazPaK]

Show me one shell that has fallen on a terrorist or a civilian? I don't know what is PA up to totally wrong move by Pakistan and they should be assured that they shall not cry for increasing Indian support in Afghanistan - North, West, Central Afghanistan were already against Pakistan and now when they are shelling eastern Afghanistan they will lose the support of majority of Pashtuns since they have asked the government to equip them and allow them to attack Pakistani positions!

As if we give a ****.

Your Tajiks that have been born to Pashtun fathers will get massacred. It's only a matter of time. Bring your army. Let the sons of Khyber teach your farsiwan eunuchs a lesson.

 

[clmeta]

Talk like a human dude.

As if we give a ****.

Your Tajiks that have been born to Pashtun fathers will get massacred. It's only a matter of time. Bring your army. Let the sons of Khyber teach your farsiwan eunuchs a lesson.

 

[Awesome]

Are these smart artillary shells that ensure that they bypass the innocent Afghan civilians and only kill the TTP terrorists hiding in Afghan Border areas. I am sure they are because if they are not, it makes Pakistan's daily wails against drone attacks killing innocent Pakistani civilians just a load of high quality BS

Its a one off incident, must have been triggered by some worried people at the border who don't know when Afghan, Taliban or American forces may attack. Something must have occurred and the shells fired in self-defence.