Afghans expelled by Pakistan in dire need of aid

[laphroaig]

Let me clarify my statement:
1. I have always found Indians, SriLankans, Bengalis [and I assume Pakistanis too] very friendly
2. Possibly the most number of my friends from South Asia are Indians [only 2 are Muslims]
3. However -- I always felt that Indians are a bit "wounded" -- when I read Naipal's commentary I could relate to it immediately
4. As a corollary we Pakistanis were Hindus once and like the Muslim world became Muslim (culturally) -- and I agree to an extent with Naipal's thesis that semetic religions disposes the civilization of it's previous culture (well I guess also Dharmic ones -- we don't know who we were before we were Hindus) -- in a sense we have grown beyond our South Asianess -- hence the lack of "wounded-ness"

It's even visible here on PDF too is it not?

There are more Indians who consider Pakistanis as brothers.

Pakistanis on the other hand if they are feeling really generous will grudgingly accept Indian Punjabis.

When not feeling generous, sky's the limit. Lol

I think it's got a lot to do with the subliminal influence of the individual ideologies of the two countries. And the way history has been told and is remembered.

 

[pakistani342]

It's even visible here on PDF too is it not?

There are more Indians who consider Pakistanis as brothers.

Pakistanis on the other hand if they are feeling really generous will grudgingly accept Indian Punjabis.

When not feeling generous, sky's the limit. Lol

I think it's got a lot to do with the subliminal influence of the individual ideologies of the two countries. And the way history has been told and is remembered.

Actually yes -- I think Pakistani people and Indian people consider each other brothers.

Let me give you a couple of anecdotal examples:
1. No Pakistani political party has had a recent political platform that has anti-India elements in it
2. If you see on how many Indian authors write in Pakistan vs Pakistani authors in Indian publications -- I think the balance is in Pakistan's favor -- this is surprising because India is more diverse and a stronger democracy than Pakistan
3. If you see on how many Pakistani authors are critical of Pakistan as opposed to Indians on India -- again the balance is in Pakistan's favor -- for example I think it would be challenging for you to show me an example of an Indian Hussain Haqqani, Nejam Sethi, Pervez Hoodboy -- which to me is again surprising given that India is a diverse liberal democracy -- again this is my suspicion: I think many Indians are privately, just as critical of India as some of these Pakistanis but admitting it in public is taboo ?? -- which really is surprising -- the more open a culture the fewer holy symbols there are.

Again I'm not trying to defend Pakistan here -- and perhaps my observations are wrong or incomplete. My expectations of India are higher -- it is a more open society and more diverse society than Pakistan -- we cannot deny this. It is been a strong democracy save for 1 small period. Anyhow my 2cents here.

 

[fitpOsitive]

It all brought by India , Amrullah Saleh , Nabil and Abdullah abdullah type people on Afghans in Pakistan. We let afghans live here, do business here, and while Afghans were happy here, above mentioned people kept barking and biting us. Now , while I am not in favor of Afghans push back to Afghanistan, for many people in Pakistan, enough is enough.

 

[laphroaig]

Actually yes -- I think Pakistani people and Indian people consider each other brothers.

Let me give you a couple of anecdotal examples:
1. No Pakistani political party has had a recent political platform that has anti-India
2. If you see on how many Indian authors write in Pakistan vs Pakistani authors in Indian publications -- I think the balance is in Pakistan's favor -- this is surprising because India is more diverse and a stronger democracy than Pakistan
3. If you see on how many Pakistani authors are critical of Pakistan as opposed to Indians on India -- again the balance is in Pakistan's favor -- for example I think it would be challenging for you to show me an example of an Indian Hussain Haqqani, Nejam Sethi, Pervez Hoodboy -- which to me is again surprising given that India is a diverse liberal democracy -- again this is my suspicion: I think many Indians are just as privately as critical of India as some of these Pakistanis but admitting it in public is taboo ?? -- which really is surprising -- the more open a culture the fever holy symbols there are.

One Arundhati Roy is equal to all your men bro.

But we have more. Many many many more.

We have institutions that are historically traditionally and culturally anti Indian.

No problem. They thrive. Untouched.

 

[TMA]

their conflict is not just with GHQ but with existence of Pakistan.they did not accept us in the UN and advocated the creation of phastunistan.

they share mutual hate for Pakistan with India and provide save passage to BLA and TTP

we should have treated these afghan refugees like iran

Very well said. They cannot bear the existence of Pakistan and her people.

 

[pakistani342]

One Arundhati Roy is equal to all your men bro.

Ok I couldn't remember her name -- but again she does not have the standing of people like Pervez Hoodboy or Hussain Haqqani -- she is a bleeding left wing liberal like me.

Even I don't give any credence to Arundhati Roy.

But we have more. Many many many more.

I would be very interested in getting some names -- I'd like to read their literature and follow them

I mean I feel there are a lot of very sane people on the Left like Mani Shankar, etc. But give me an example of someone who is mainstream and says for example that the Maharaja of Kashmir had no legitimacy (not being an elected leader) to concede Kashmir -- or for example: someone who says: yes India supported Mukti Bhani that was essentially a terrorist organization.

The people I've mentioned above say the symmetric things and get published in mainstream publications.

We have institutions that are historically traditionally and culturally anti Indian.

No problem. They thrive. Untouched.

Would love to get some examples -- I'm really interested in reading up on them. For me, I've been a bit disappointed with India since the election of Modi -- and perhaps he's not the monster we think he is.

 

[A-Team]

Fairpoint -- but again that is my point to @A-Team ... what are Afghans fighting for ?

until recently the Pakistani people hosted you as their own.

If Afghans really believe:
That Pakistanis profited from the war and all the other nonsense -- let's present facts to each other -- simple arithmetic will solve this matter.

Come on my friend @pakistani342 you do know why we are fighting, you have said several times, the Gernals wants a full control of the Afghan foreign policy, which is a red line for us.

PS : Hosting refugees is one thing but using that as pretext to control who we become friends with is a non-starter you know better than this

 

[pakistani342]

Come on my friend @pakistani342 you do know why we are fighting, you have said several times, the Gernals wants a full control of the Afghan foreign policy, which is a red line for us.

And, if the situation was reversed -- the Pakistani public would have conceded their foreign policy to Afghanistan.
That is my point.
Pakistan already concedes it's foreign policy to friends like Saudi Arabia, etc.

PS : Hosting refugees is one thing but using that as pretext to control who we become friends with is a non-starter you know better than this

Again -- perhaps we are two different people -- had the situation been reversed, the Afghans would not have need to ask the Pakistani people.

And, I mean Pakistanis are no saints -- Pakistanis are a poor, illiterate troubled people -- but this is simple decency.

Do you know that the Pakistanis don't have good relations with Greece because of Turkey -- which is madness because the Turks really don't begrudge Greece (it is the other way around)

@A-Team -- that is what I do not understand. Pakistanis have proposed a federation to Afghans in the 1950s as a way past the Durand Line -- this to a country that was very hostile to Pakistan.

 

[A-Team]

And, if the situation was reversed -- the Pakistani public would have conceded their foreign policy to Afghanistan.
That is my point.
Pakistan already concedes it's foreign policy to friends like Saudi Arabia, etc.
.

Well that is difference between you and us I guess

here is another article to see how the Gernals who have been good at this game of projecting power via different militant groups, the side is effedent here and thus I have always failed that yes they maybe playing well tactically but in the greater scheme of things Pakistan is losing the bigger picture.

http://www.theatlantic.com/internat...-medals-olympics-rio/496616/?utm_source=atltw

 

[pakistani342]

Well that is difference between you and us I guess

here is another article to see how the Gernals who have been good at this game of projecting power via different militant groups, the side is effedent here and thus I have always failed that yes they maybe playing well tactically but in the greater scheme of things Pakistan is losing the bigger picture.

http://www.theatlantic.com/internat...-medals-olympics-rio/496616/?utm_source=atltw

yes -- shameful -- but if you read the article it shed light on who it is not easy for third world countries to compete. Some countries like Norway get a lot of medals and an intellectual powerhouse like Israel seldom wins. I'd rather be an intellectual powerhouse like Israel with no medals than Norway with a lot of medals. Look at India -- intellectual power house but only 1 bronze.

But again you did not answer the question.

My proposition was that had the situation been reversed -- the Pakistanis would never have done what the Afghans have done.

 

[somebozo]

Auqat yaad ajaye gi..

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Our biggest enemy is this corrupt pro rich system where people are just numbers and its ok to look down on someone who was not fortunate enough to be born in a well off family

I felt that crap.. I was there at scheme 3 ... at tehzeeb ... couldn't sleep

 

[maximuswarrior]

i wonder where does 80 billion dollars in AID has gone

Karzai's coffers.

their conflict is not just with GHQ but with existence of Pakistan.they did not accept us in the UN and advocated the creation of phastunistan.

they share mutual hate for Pakistan with India and provide save passage to BLA and TTP

we should have treated these afghan refugees like iran

Got to give it to you. The Iranians know how to properly deal with these Afghans. They expel tens of thousands in one go.

 

[Ali Sinan]

Remember we will eat the grass argument

Eat it till the end of times.....

 

[TMA]

yes -- shameful -- but if you read the article it shed light on who it is not easy for third world countries to compete. Some countries like Norway get a lot of medals and an intellectual powerhouse like Israel seldom wins. I'd rather be an intellectual powerhouse like Israel with no medals than Norway with a lot of medals. Look at India -- intellectual power house but only 1 bronze.

But again you did not answer the question.

My proposition was that had the situation been reversed -- the Pakistanis would never have done what the Afghans have done.

This is because the Afghans as a nation hold extreme jealous arrogance towards Pakistan and this leads to hate. Pakistan does not innately hold this towards Afghanistan. It is only as a response to what Afghanistan has historically done and is currently doing that Pakistanis are not feeling "the love" towards "Brother" Afghanistan.