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Afghanistan's dirty little secret: Bacha Baz

Well at least you didn't fall into the trap set by the article and IMO you correctly blamed "moral degeneration".

The article sure didn't explore whether it was at all possible these could have been "ancient feudal customs" from pre-Islamic days ... perhaps comparable to certain "customs" among the Greeks during Hellenistic hay days.

I just don't know and that's why I am asking.

Before I ask a couple of my own questions, first the preamble: I hate the Taliban! I despise the Taliban! I wish them each 1000 deaths and 0 virgins in the bitter after ...

Now the questions:

1. Weren't these "Bacha Bazi" b@stards the ones Taliban was executing and made the whole practice illegal? Please correct me if I am under the wrong impression here. I really would like to know.

2. If so why does the article not mention that but seem more interested in implicating Kazai with innuendos? BTW, I have nothing good or bad to say about Kazai ... but is this article aimed at solving this genuine outrage along the lines of international child camel jockeys, child prostitution in Thailand, or is it interested in politicizing it for an end?

I genuinely want to know.

This stuff is just too tragic and serious to be used as a tool ...

are u telling that gays r killing gays ...... man what do u expect look its simple taliban r normal ppl most of them r born in afghanistan ok
so they to have got to be a part of the same society and in other words a victim of the same moral degradation as the rest and child abuse was as much in those times as its now if not greater
 
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Yes Taimi, we are here to learn - about the good, the bad, and the ugly. The scale and "entrenchedness" of this practice are certainly news to some of us.

Your sympathetic analysis would help.

Thank you.

So you say its true?

AFG Pashtoons have such unusual sexual behaviour?

Well yeah its true and very much true, this is a wide spread problem which reaches on this side of the border too.

A few years back, the BBC had done a detailed program, will see if could find that video.

But this thing is mostly in the lower section of the society, the uneducated ones.

Hell a few years back in my home town, similarly a policeman shot a boy in main market infront of the police station after he called up the boy who refused. There was an angry mob set out and they threatened to burn the police station if the culprit wasn't handed over, para-military forces were called in, fighting erupted, few casualties occurred, para-military guys also got killed as well as civilian protesters, i believe something 7-8 people died on that day, and the next day when we woke up, the whole city was under curfew. The military was called in as whole city was deserted by the police who had gone out of the city and no police station was manned due to the anger of the population. So at night the military very swiftly came in and whole town was under curfew.

For three days the city was under curfew and even when it was lifted, the military was present as there was no police, took considerable time to get things back to normal and i believe the culprit later got death sentence through court.

So yeah this has been a problem in these areas, mostly tribal areas as well as low income class is affected by this problem, but on this side, thing have taken a turn for the betterment as its reducing as time goes by, not sure about the Afghan side.
 
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Homosexuality runs rampant in Afghans and Pushtoon lower classes typicaly labours, drivers, etc etc..and even among the super religious zealot talibans..no wonder the value of women to them is just that of reproduction factory!:flame:
 
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My friend, this has got nothing to with our respected pashtoons of afghanistan. It is a crime happening in the country, the perpetrators are taking advantage of the government's problems and are striking without fear. I am sure other countries have got similiar problems, but since Afghanistan is a soft target and matter of laugh to everyone, they try to bring everything about them.
Well, is it common in Afghanistan? And is it true when they say its centuries old?

I know in Europe, in 1700's, they would find prepubescent boys with good, girly, singing voices and chop their balls off so that they could keep that voice until they're 17 or so. Castrati history
 
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Here is an article on this from 2007 ... something doesn't jibe ... it ain't Kazai ... or is it him?

Boys in Afghanistan Sold Into Prostitution, Sexual Slavery
By zadzi.

Wealthy former warlords in Baghlan, a northern province of Afghanistan, recruit adolescent boys for *** and entertainment, while local authorities remain powerless in stopping the practice.

A ‘bacha bereesh’ is a boy without a beard, and in several circles a beardless boy is most desired by rich, powerful male patrons. Grown men become involved in ‘bacha bazi’— which literally translates into ‘boy-play’. This is a time-honored tradition, condemned by human rights activists and Muslim clerics, but it is seeing a revival in the north province of Afghanistan. It is by no means restricted to the north of Afghanistan only, but has virtually faded in the south, where the Taliban’s strict moral code act as a deterrent.

The bacha bereesh, between the ages of 14 to 18 (though 14 seems to be the preferred age), are dressed in special women’s clothing, with bells tied to their feet, and paraded out to dance at parties and weddings. In general, the practice of men dancing at parties is relatively common in Afghanistan, where the sexes are strictly segregated and women unallowed to partake in such activity. However, in Baghlan, the former warlords and mujahideen commanders are resurrecting bacha bazi, and holding dance competitions between the boys.

Allah Daad, once a mujahedin commander in the northern Afghan province of Kunduz, explains how the boys are enticed into the arrangement: “First we select boys in the village and later on we try to trick them into coming with us,” he said. “Some of them stay with us for money; they get a monthly allowance, and in return we can have them any time we want. They don’t stay with us all the time - they can do their own jobs and then just come to parties with us.”

Large halls provide the venues for the weekly parties where the boys’ owners, invite their friends to watch them dancing. Several different types of dances are popular, Daad says, and if the boy refuses to dance or performs badly, his master beats him with a long stick.
"We have to do that,” explains Daad. “We spend money on these boys, so they have to dance.”

Later into the night, once the dancing is over, the boys are frequently shared with close friends, for sexual favors. And by the end of the evening it is not at all uncommon for the boy to have a new owner, as the parties often provide the opportunity for buying and selling.

Both prestige as well as poverty are the main motivators for the revival of bacha bazi.

A beautiful boy who is also the best dancer becomes a status symbol for his master. A man going by the name of Nasro Bay explains how the public ostentation of bacha bazi is a sign of prestige:

“I am not really rich, but I am just as good as the wealthy. I want as many bacha bereesh as possible, so that when I go to parties I am no worse than anybody else.”

He insists that the dancing boy tradition is a good one.
“It’s a good thing,” he said. “We have our own culture. In foreign countries, the women dance. We have our own dances which don’t exist anywhere else in the world.”

The men are said to lavish money and gifts on their boys. Many claim to love them, and there are cases of boys who are not so dissatisfied with their lifestyle, demeaning as it may seem.

"I was only 14-years-old when a former Uzbek commander forced me to have *** with him," says Shir Mohammad. "Later, I quit my family and became his secretary. I have been with him for 10 years, I am now grown up, but he still loves me and I sleep with him."
But at 24, he is getting far too old to remain a dancing boy.

"I am grown up now and do not have the beauty of former years. So, I proposed to marry my lord's daughter and he has agreed to it."

Ahmad Jawad, 17, has been with a wealthy landowner for the past two years.

"I am used to it. I love my lord. I love to dance and act like a woman and play with my owner," he says. When asked what he would do when he got older, Ahmad says he will be an owner and will have many of his own boys.

Some of the men say they are not interested in women.
“We know it is immoral and unIslamic, but how can we quit?” asks 35 year-old Chaman Gul. “We do not like women, we just want boys.”

But poverty tells a less sentimental story, and remains a huge motivating factor in the boy’s lives. It’s often desperation which drives them into the lifestyle.
“I was dancing last night,” one exhausted-looking 14 year-old boy said, when his owner forced him to speak. “I have been doing this for the past year. I have no choice - I’m poor. My father is dead, and this is the only source of income for me and my family. I try to dance well, especially at huge parties. The men throw money at me, and then I gather it up. Sometimes they take me to the market and buy me nice clothes.”
Mohammad Zaher Zafari, head of the northern branch of the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission, bemoans the government’s inability to take action.
“Unfortunately I have to say that this type of dancing, sexual abuse and even the sale of boys has been going on for years,” he says. “It is a despicable culture. The boys involved are usually poor, underage or orphans, and they are forced into it by their economic circumstances.

...

 
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This is so shocking, anyone heard any thing like this before?

Afghanistan's dirty little secret

Western forces fighting in southern Afghanistan had a problem. Too often, soldiers on patrol passed an older man walking hand-in-hand with a pretty young boy. Their behavior suggested he was not the boy's father. Then, British soldiers found that young Afghan men were actually trying to "touch and fondle them," military investigator AnnaMaria Cardinalli told me. "The soldiers didn't understand."

All of this was so disconcerting that the Defense Department hired Cardinalli, a social scientist, to examine this mystery. Her report, "Pashtun Sexuality," startled not even one Afghan. But Western forces were shocked - and repulsed.

For centuries, Afghan men have taken boys, roughly 9 to 15 years old, as lovers. Some research suggests that half the Pashtun tribal members in Kandahar and other southern towns are bacha baz, the term for an older man with a boy lover. Literally it means "boy player." The men like to boast about it.

"Having a boy has become a custom for us," Enayatullah, a 42-year-old in Baghlan province, told a Reuters reporter. "Whoever wants to show off should have a boy."

Baghlan province is in the northeast, but Afghans say pedophilia is most prevalent among Pashtun men in the south. The Pashtun are Afghanistan's most important tribe. For centuries, the nation's leaders have been Pashtun.

President Hamid Karzai is Pashtun, from a village near Kandahar, and he has six brothers. So the natural question arises: Has anyone in the Karzai family been bacha baz? Two Afghans with close connections to the Karzai family told me they know that at least one family member and perhaps two were bacha baz. Afraid of retribution, both declined to be identified and would not be more specific for publication.

As for Karzai, an American who worked in and around his palace in an official capacity for many months told me that homosexual behavior "was rampant" among "soldiers and guys on the security detail. They talked about boys all the time."

He added, "I didn't see Karzai with anyone. He was in his palace most of the time." He, too, declined to be identified.

In Kandahar, population about 500,000, and other towns, dance parties are a popular, often weekly, pastime. Young boys dress up as girls, wearing makeup and bells on their feet, and dance for a dozen or more leering middle-aged men who throw money at them and then take them home. A recent State Department report called "dancing boys" a "widespread, culturally sanctioned form of male ****."

So, why are American and NATO forces fighting and dying to defend tens of thousands of proud pedophiles, certainly more per capita than any other place on Earth? And how did Afghanistan become the pedophilia capital of Asia?

Sociologists and anthropologists say the problem results from perverse interpretation of Islamic law. Women are simply unapproachable. Afghan men cannot talk to an unrelated woman until after proposing marriage. Before then, they can't even look at a woman, except perhaps her feet. Otherwise she is covered, head to ankle.

"How can you fall in love if you can't see her face," 29-year-old Mohammed Daud told reporters. "We can see the boys, so we can tell which are beautiful."

Even after marriage, many men keep their boys, suggesting a loveless life at home. A favored Afghan expression goes: "Women are for children, boys are for pleasure." Fundamentalist imams, exaggerating a biblical passage on menstruation, teach that women are "unclean" and therefore distasteful. One married man even asked Cardinalli's team "how his wife could become pregnant," her report said. When that was explained, he "reacted with disgust" and asked, "How could one feel desire to be with a woman, who God has made unclean?"

That helps explain why women are hidden away - and stoned to death if they are perceived to have misbehaved. Islamic law also forbids homosexuality. But the pedophiles explain that away. It's not homosexuality, they aver, because they aren't in love with their boys.

Addressing the loathsome mistreatment of Afghan women remains a primary goal for coalition governments, as it should be.

But what about the boys, thousands upon thousands of little boys who are victims of serial **** over many years, destroying their lives - and Afghan society.

"There's no issue more horrifying and more deserving of our attention than this," Cardinalli said. "I'm continually haunted by what I saw."

As one boy, in tow of a man he called "my lord," told the Reuters reporter: "Once I grow up, I will be an owner, and I will have my own boys."

© 2010 Joel Brinkley


Joel Brinkley is a professor of journalism at Stanford University and is a former Pulitzer Prize-winning foreign correspondent for the New York Times. Contact The Chronicle via our online form: sfgate.com/chronicle/submissions/#1.

Afghanistan's dirty little secret

This article appeared on page E - 8 of the San Francisco Chronicle

the sad thing is they even abused the religion in favour of there desire shame shame calling women unclean how can they call them self muslims and we all know what how islam prohibits gay ism yet they justified it with with islam and yet so much islam what can i say i am ashamed to my bones
 
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My friend, this has got nothing to with our respected pashtoons of afghanistan. It is a crime happening in the country, the perpetrators are taking advantage of the government's problems and are striking without fear. I am sure other countries have got similiar problems, but since Afghanistan is a soft target and matter of laugh to everyone, they try to bring everything about them.

I don't agree that Afghanistan is a matter of laughing for everyone.

What I find tragic in all of this is that a society should pretend to be pious and safeguard the 'dignity' of their women by keeping them segregated and hidden, while a generation of children loses their childhood. Truly disgusting.

Pedophilia happens everywhere, including India. I just don't see educated people (like you see in the thread above) laughing it off as a 'silly' or harmless social custom.
 
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Well, is it common in Afghanistan? And is it true when they say its centuries old?

Castrati history

It is happening in the country more(now) compare to the past, as before the war started in Afghanistan this crime was very hidden and the perpetrators didnt dare do it in the open, but since the last 3 decades things have gone bad as the governments are week and cant control this crime properly. Who knows how long this has been happening? nobody knows, this is peadophila and it is happening in every country including paksitan and india and other parts of the world.
 
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Homosexuality runs rampant in Afghans and Pushtoon lower classes typicaly labours, drivers, etc etc..and even among the super religious zealot talibans..no wonder the value of women to them is just that of reproduction factory!:flame:

What a sad thing to say, you know one should look at one's own self before lambasting others. This is also common in Pakistan, places like Bannu and Mianwali don't get thier reputations for nothing ;)

And it's not just a "pashtoon" thing either, so you can drop that crap right now. We all know Hafiz centre is not just popular for computer and mobile phone :no:

Or Jinnah Super Market and the UN marked cars picking up street boys... How come no one questions that? Why are people picking on Afghan's or Pashtuns.
 
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1. Weren't these "Bacha Bazi" b@stards the ones Taliban was executing and made the whole practice illegal? Please correct me if I am under the wrong impression here. I really would like to know.

Buddy, this is not a custom or part of the culture as some people say, this is a crime which is taken place in the country. It was, is and will be banned and a punishable crime according to the state's law. It was banned under the taliban just like under any other gov in the country, but it still were happening during the taliban, i used to work in southern province of Logar, and it wasnt a surprise for us to see it under the nose of the taliban.
 
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Buddy, this is not a custom or part of the culture as some people say, this is a crime which is taken place in the country. It was, is and will be banned and a punishable crime according to the state's law. It was banned under the taliban just like under any other gov in the country, but it still were happening during the taliban, i used to work in southern province of Logar, and it wasnt a surprise for us to see it under the nose of the taliban.

It took a functional, albeit brutal government to eradicate the ubiquitous opium dens in old China ...

So basically any functional government will do a decent job in "throwing the books" at this "Bacha Bazi" business ... is what you are saying.

I admit - the fact that Taliban seemed to have dealt with it more "effectively" does introduce an element of "cognitive dissonance" ... sort of along the lines of "fascists making the train run on-time" ... on a different "moral plain", of course.
 
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It took a functional, albeit brutal government to eradicate the ubiquitous opium dens in old China ...

So basically any functional government will do a decent job in "throwing the books" at this "Bacha Bazi" business ... is what you are saying.

I admit - the fact that Taliban seemed to have dealt with it more "effectively" does introduce an element of "cognitive dissonance" ... sort of along the lines of "fascists making the train run on-time" ... on a different "moral plain", of course.

it used to happen during the taliban time too.
 
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I think the focus on discussion should be how to eliminate such questioable practices , its no point to disrespect honest good afghani ppl just becuase of few bad apples.

Such issues are present in all societies in general
 
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TALIABN ALLOWED PEDEOPHILE ABUSES BUT DID NOT ALLOW KITE FLYING??

I have no words to say now!!
 
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TALIABN ALLOWED PEDEOPHILE ABUSES BUT DID NOT ALLOW KITE FLYING??

I have no words to say now!!

The taliban didnt allow this shameful act, it used to happen before them and also during their time. As i said before, this act was considered crime and illegal under every gov in Afghanistan. I hate the taliban to the bottom of my heart, but to put all the bad things on the taliban is not a good thing to do.
 
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