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Afghan peace talks should not cross 'red lines': India

In this hate and blind patriotism we are forgetting humanity and teachings of islam. Making faces at the sight of poor and affectees, reflects blackness of his inside.

Call it blind nationalism, Jooo, lib, non-islamic or whatever you want, these are my views, don't like them? Learn to ignore like i have with your ignorant and anti-army/Pakistan comments.
 
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GoI will look for the following:

1. Agreement that Afghanistan will not become a training ground for you know where.
2. Continuation of commercial agreements as they exist.
3. Indian on-ground personnel are not harmed.

GoI will provide the following:

1. Continuation of infrastructure projects
2. Increased trade incentives.
3. Commitment of funds for non infrastructural development and socio-economic development.

Please understand, the stand of the GoI is very clear. We support the aspirations of the Afghan people. Not a particular person. If, tomorrow, the Afghan government's policies towards India changes for the worse because of external factors, then controls will need to be exercised in other areas.

Good..... :tup:

All are legitimate objectives (but I have few reservations about highlighted point)

Dear by this we are again back to square one...... as "How all these will be achieved" is still unanswerable........
 
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Good..... :tup:

All are legitimate objectives (but I have few reservations about highlighted point)

Dear by this we are again back to square one...... as "How all these will be achieved" is still unanswerable........

By agreement, I do not mean written accord or anything of that sort.This is a question, which is dependent on two variables:

1. How the new government which will be formed next year (once Karzai exits) responds.
2. What is Pakistan's objective vis-a-vis the point.

Make no mistake, the primary reason why India is pouring in aid and building infrastructure is to build goodwill, protect its investments and ensure there is no return to a training battleground.
 
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daddy,s shutup call?;):lol:



Taliban soften stand after US
Taliban soften stand after US warning - DAWN.COM


2013-06-23 06:34:365



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DOHA: The Taliban signalled a willingness to meet demands to keep their flag lowered as the US warned on Saturday that their newly opened political office in Qatar might have to be closed as talks aimed at ending nearly 12 years of war in Afghanistan remained in limbo.

A Taliban spokesman in Doha, Shaheen Suhail, suggested the Taliban were willing to move forward despite “much anger” among some members over the removal of the name and the lowering of the Taliban flag — a white flag emblazoned with a Quranic verse in black.

“In the past 12 years, the opening of the political office is the first ray in the direction of peace in Afghanistan,” Mr Suhail said. “Those who want real peace in the county should support this move. These are the first days. There should not be high expectations to see everything resolved in one day, nor should there be disappointments.”

He told AP in a telephone call that the US had not contacted the Taliban yet to discuss a meeting.

Earlier, US Secretary of State John Kerry urged the Taliban not to let differences on names and flags scuttle hopes for talks, saying the opening of an office in Qatar was an important step towards reconciliation that should not be squandered.

Mr Kerry, in the Qatari capital for separate talks on Syria’s civil war, said the Americans and the Afghan government’s High Peace Council were ready, and he encouraged the Taliban to remain in the process.

“Nothing comes easily in this endeavour, we understand that. The road ahead will be difficult, no question about it, if there is a road ahead,” he said at a press conference.

He said the US hoped the opening of the office would be “an important step in reconciliation, if possible” but added “it’s really up to the Taliban to make that choice.”

“It remains to be seen in this very first test whether or not the Taliban are prepared to do their part,” he said.

Meanwhile, James Dobbins, the US special representative to Afghanistan and Pakistan, arrived in Doha on Saturday, suggesting the US remains hopeful about the talks despite the recent flap.

Shaheen Suhail, the Taliban’s spokesman in Doha, told AP that his office had received no word about when a meeting with Mr Dobbins might be held.

Mr Suhail also prevailed on all sides to calm the tensions over what he deemed a secondary issue.

“Everyone should save the process. Give a chance to the process. In one day everything cannot be resolved,” he said in a telephone interview. “This is a very secondary thing and not important. I am also surprised that it should derail the process.”

Mr Karzai temporarily suspended participation in talks on Tuesday angered by a sign identifying the office as the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, the name used by the Taliban during their five-year rule that ended in 2001 after the Taliban were ousted by the US invasion for their support of Al Qaeda.

The Afghan president also suspended separate negotiations with the United States over a security agreement aimed at providing a framework for some US forces to remain in Afghanistan after the Americans and their Nato allies withdraw combat forces by the end of 2014.

The Taliban spokesman said the spat had frustrated and angered some within the militant movement who said the Taliban had been meeting representatives of dozens of countries and holding secret one-on-one meetings with members of Mr Karzai’s High Peace Council (HPC) on several occasions, always under the banner of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan.

“There is an internal discussion right now and much anger about it but we have not yet decided what action to take,” he said. “But I think it weakens the process from the very beginning.”

In Kabul, a member of the government’s negotiation team said it was still prepared to begin talks in Qatar and described the removal of the sign and flag as a positive sign.

HPC member Shahzada Shahid said it was too early to say when members of the council would travel to Qatar for talks. He also welcomed the participation of countries in the international coalition in Afghanistan and said they would have their own issues to discuss.—AP
 
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OK, so looks like the players have reported to their respective camps - Let the games begin.

calling it a game is harsh, but then what else would one call these shenanigans?
 
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What do you expect, you think i would praise the spoiled rich brat for his twisted views? Read his post again.

In this hate and blind patriotism we are forgetting humanity and teachings of islam. Making faces at the sight of poor and affectees, reflects blackness of his inside.

Mate its not blind patriotism (jingoism) or anything like it nor are we forgetting the teachings of Islam ! Islam teaches us realism & that realism teaches us that if someone is hellbent on staying in your home but still doesn't consider you worth anymore than a pile of sh*t, thinks that parts of your house are actually his & you're the one who is being unreasonable when you ask him to clear-off & most of all has the insolence of claiming how sh*tty the house & its inhabitants are whilst he keeps on staying in the same house with the same inhabitants, then I think @SHAMK9 & me could be forgiven for not liking the Afghans very much & would be quite justified in asking them to vacate the premises of our house.

If they - the Afghans - say a nice thing to us & about us genuinely I'd be all for reciprocating that ten times but unfortunately they don't & most probably they never will & their hate for us goes well before any part we may have played in supporting factions in their country.
 
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OK, Strike One --- Pindi not really pleased and not making any bones about it either -- They know the rules the US plays by - All success accrues to the US, all failures, to Pakistan, so for once Pindi wants to be seen as being ahead of the storyline



Analysis: Muddled US tactics can be blamed for Doha deadlock

By Syed Talat Hussain
Published: June 23, 2013


As diplomacy aims for dialogue & election in Afghanistan, Obama admin promises things that are just incompatible goals.
ISLAMABAD:

US Secretary of State John Kerry is working overtime to save the Doha peace process from becoming stillborn. The upheaval he is dealing with has been largely created by the Taliban’s naming of their office in Doha as a sort of a mission of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan.

Statements coming out of Washington tend to suggest that if the Taliban had not pulled a fast one on everyone, the talks between the US and their representatives would have begun by now and Kerry instead of acting as a fire engine putting out the flames of discontent in three capitals – Kabul, Doha and Islamabad – would be reporting back happy news to his boss, President Barack Obama.

However, the snags hampering this Afghan peace push relate more to the contradictory tactics Washington has pursued in the process. In a way Secretary Kerry is fighting a self-ignited problem
.

As quiet diplomacy proceeded towards the aim of creating space for a broad-based dialogue and an all-inclusive election in Afghanistan, the Obama administration promised different things to different players, not realising that these were incompatible goals.

To President Hamid Karzai’s regime it promised centrality in negotiations with the Taliban. The White House did a fair job of winning Karzai’s backing for the talks with the Taliban in return for the commitment that soon after the office in Doha was opened his High Peace Council would be there on the table. This placated the Afghan president who in return agreed to be a good sport in meeting long-term US interests in his county by taking the bilateral security agreement to the logical conclusion. The agreement would determine how many bases and troops the US can retain in Afghanistan after combat operations end next year.

Towards the Taliban the US posture wasn’t truly clear but it conveyed at least a pressing sense that the Doha dialogue would determine America’s future course of action, and while keeping Karzai in good humour was important this would not be a make-or-break factor in these talks.

To Pakistan, Washington’s intense interaction centred around two points: one, the Taliban should be convinced to distance themselves from al Qaeda; they should not allow Afghan soil to be used for attacks against US interests; and they should be ready to take part in the electoral process, under an Afghan constitution that could be modified through mutual consultation. The second issue related to whether all these points should be demands (preconditions) or results (end conditions) of negotiations. There was a general understanding between Islamabad and Washington that the Doha dialogue would not be pre-conditioned. Instead the process should be pursued to achieve these results.

Pakistani officials insist that the idea of the Taliban agreeing to meeting the High Peace Council as a Karzai representative was never a centrepiece of their engagement with Washington. They instead claim that the US had been told in so many words that in Islamabad’s assessment the Taliban would not engage with Karzai even though they know that the High Peace Council, in spite of being handpicked, had reservations about the Afghan president. Pakistani officials also say that senior US officials repeatedly defined Karzai as a player with important but limited role in this entire initiative whose core idea was to stabilise Afghanistan by talking to the Taliban. They say the calendar of talks was prepared and events were tick marked on it only because the US wanted direct engagement with the Taliban.


These parallel but mutually conflicting paths taken by the US created different expectations with the Doha process. For Karzai Doha meant, in the post US forces exit situation, legitimising and securing himself and his allied interest groups in a power arrangement where the Taliban would endorse his credentials as a key player; for the Taliban Doha stood for the US running out of options and looking for ways to stabilise Afghanistan by talking to them directly by passing, at least in the initial stage, Karzai’s representatives; to Pakistan the whole effort was evidence that the Obama administration had finally begun to appreciate Afghanistan’s ground realities in which the Taliban, and not Kabul’s government, held the key to providing the US a safe, honourable and easy-to-market at home exit. Washington perhaps assumed that by granting political and diplomatic space to the Taliban it would eventually tempt them into a peace huddle with Karzai whose signatures they need to retain a military foothold in Afghanistan after 2014.

This assumption has been proven wrong. The contradictory signals the US had sent to different actors have all come out in the open to clash and collide with each other, halting the Doha move dead in its tracks. The Taliban do not and will not touch Karzai with a barge pole. Pakistan cannot convince them to do that. Karzai, for his part, wants to bargain security pact with the US for his central role in the talks. He wants to be at the centre of the table and shall not fade away easily. Pakistan wants the US to deliver on the core promise of talking directly with the Taliban to start the process at least. Islamabad does not want Karzai to veto a historic opportunity for establishing broad-based peace. As a result, Secretary Kerry, instead of being in a position to claim that he is close to winning peace in Afghanistan, is hopping continents, making frantic calls and hyperventilating against the silly metal plates that the Taliban once placed outside their Doha office but since then have been removed.

The problem in Doha is not about the Taliban pulling off a propaganda and publicity stunt. It is unimaginable that Qatar authorities whose task it was to arrange everything for Doha office did not know (and by that token the US did not know) that the Taliban had a flag and name tag prepared for their office. The real culprit is stunning confusion and obvious contradictions that continue to define Washington’s approach towards Afghanistan where it is confronted with stark choices and but it refuses to handle them with clarity and determination. Secretary Kerry can re-inflate Doha by separating US-Taliban talks from the talks that may involve others, including members of High Peace Council. Once the table of direct talks becomes active, all other issues can be taken up there. Moreover, the US has to decide how it intends to deal with Karzai’s complex fears and how important he would really be a year from now.
 
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OK, Strike One --- Pindi not really pleased and not making any bones about it either -- They know the rules the US plays by - All success accrues to the US, all failures, to Pakistan, so for once Pindi wants to be seen as being ahead of the storyline



Analysis: Muddled US tactics can be blamed for Doha deadlock

By Syed Talat Hussain
Published: June 23, 2013


As diplomacy aims for dialogue & election in Afghanistan, Obama admin promises things that are just incompatible goals.
ISLAMABAD:

US Secretary of State John Kerry is working overtime to save the Doha peace process from becoming stillborn. The upheaval he is dealing with has been largely created by the Taliban’s naming of their office in Doha as a sort of a mission of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan.

Statements coming out of Washington tend to suggest that if the Taliban had not pulled a fast one on everyone, the talks between the US and their representatives would have begun by now and Kerry instead of acting as a fire engine putting out the flames of discontent in three capitals – Kabul, Doha and Islamabad – would be reporting back happy news to his boss, President Barack Obama.

However, the snags hampering this Afghan peace push relate more to the contradictory tactics Washington has pursued in the process. In a way Secretary Kerry is fighting a self-ignited problem
.

As quiet diplomacy proceeded towards the aim of creating space for a broad-based dialogue and an all-inclusive election in Afghanistan, the Obama administration promised different things to different players, not realising that these were incompatible goals.

To President Hamid Karzai’s regime it promised centrality in negotiations with the Taliban. The White House did a fair job of winning Karzai’s backing for the talks with the Taliban in return for the commitment that soon after the office in Doha was opened his High Peace Council would be there on the table. This placated the Afghan president who in return agreed to be a good sport in meeting long-term US interests in his county by taking the bilateral security agreement to the logical conclusion. The agreement would determine how many bases and troops the US can retain in Afghanistan after combat operations end next year.

Towards the Taliban the US posture wasn’t truly clear but it conveyed at least a pressing sense that the Doha dialogue would determine America’s future course of action, and while keeping Karzai in good humour was important this would not be a make-or-break factor in these talks.

To Pakistan, Washington’s intense interaction centred around two points: one, the Taliban should be convinced to distance themselves from al Qaeda; they should not allow Afghan soil to be used for attacks against US interests; and they should be ready to take part in the electoral process, under an Afghan constitution that could be modified through mutual consultation. The second issue related to whether all these points should be demands (preconditions) or results (end conditions) of negotiations. There was a general understanding between Islamabad and Washington that the Doha dialogue would not be pre-conditioned. Instead the process should be pursued to achieve these results.

Pakistani officials insist that the idea of the Taliban agreeing to meeting the High Peace Council as a Karzai representative was never a centrepiece of their engagement with Washington. They instead claim that the US had been told in so many words that in Islamabad’s assessment the Taliban would not engage with Karzai even though they know that the High Peace Council, in spite of being handpicked, had reservations about the Afghan president. Pakistani officials also say that senior US officials repeatedly defined Karzai as a player with important but limited role in this entire initiative whose core idea was to stabilise Afghanistan by talking to the Taliban. They say the calendar of talks was prepared and events were tick marked on it only because the US wanted direct engagement with the Taliban.


These parallel but mutually conflicting paths taken by the US created different expectations with the Doha process. For Karzai Doha meant, in the post US forces exit situation, legitimising and securing himself and his allied interest groups in a power arrangement where the Taliban would endorse his credentials as a key player; for the Taliban Doha stood for the US running out of options and looking for ways to stabilise Afghanistan by talking to them directly by passing, at least in the initial stage, Karzai’s representatives; to Pakistan the whole effort was evidence that the Obama administration had finally begun to appreciate Afghanistan’s ground realities in which the Taliban, and not Kabul’s government, held the key to providing the US a safe, honourable and easy-to-market at home exit. Washington perhaps assumed that by granting political and diplomatic space to the Taliban it would eventually tempt them into a peace huddle with Karzai whose signatures they need to retain a military foothold in Afghanistan after 2014.

This assumption has been proven wrong. The contradictory signals the US had sent to different actors have all come out in the open to clash and collide with each other, halting the Doha move dead in its tracks. The Taliban do not and will not touch Karzai with a barge pole. Pakistan cannot convince them to do that. Karzai, for his part, wants to bargain security pact with the US for his central role in the talks. He wants to be at the centre of the table and shall not fade away easily. Pakistan wants the US to deliver on the core promise of talking directly with the Taliban to start the process at least. Islamabad does not want Karzai to veto a historic opportunity for establishing broad-based peace. As a result, Secretary Kerry, instead of being in a position to claim that he is close to winning peace in Afghanistan, is hopping continents, making frantic calls and hyperventilating against the silly metal plates that the Taliban once placed outside their Doha office but since then have been removed.

The problem in Doha is not about the Taliban pulling off a propaganda and publicity stunt. It is unimaginable that Qatar authorities whose task it was to arrange everything for Doha office did not know (and by that token the US did not know) that the Taliban had a flag and name tag prepared for their office. The real culprit is stunning confusion and obvious contradictions that continue to define Washington’s approach towards Afghanistan where it is confronted with stark choices and but it refuses to handle them with clarity and determination. Secretary Kerry can re-inflate Doha by separating US-Taliban talks from the talks that may involve others, including members of High Peace Council. Once the table of direct talks becomes active, all other issues can be taken up there. Moreover, the US has to decide how it intends to deal with Karzai’s complex fears and how important he would really be a year from now.
@muse my genioues uncle?
uncle this all what the CIA thinks in thier hands by now, but when the real time will come they ill only by thn they have invested in wrong factory!
 
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@muse my genioues uncle?
uncle this all what the CIA thinks in thier hands by now, but when the real time will come they ill only by thn they have invested in wrong factory!

English, Please - paklish difficult for me -- wrong factory?
 
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English, Please - paklish difficult for me -- wrong factory?


my dear lord,
i beg to state a fact into your hounrable consideration, that lords of CIA bieng fooled by a rather secret co-opreation by the regional power of the concerned region!
& it included ISI, thats why you have not seen them taking any intersts on the concerned issue!
hope fully you will understand fact that the respected desi gora made articals & publications are not good enough to be posted as any of changing trends , & as facts or latest knowledge on the respected issue?
hopefully you will not remove my weak head of my weak body, for stating my plea?
thankyou very much, just waiting for your kind reply!
 
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my dear lord,
i beg to state a fact into your hounrable consideration, that lords of CIA bieng fooled by a rather secret co-opreation by the regional power of the concerned region!
& it included ISI, thats why you have not seen them taking any intersts on the concerned issue!
hope fully you will understand fact that the respected desi gora made articals & publications are not good enough to be posted as any of changing trends , & as facts or latest knowledge on the respected issue?
hopefully you will not remove my weak head of my weak body, for stating my plea?
thankyou very much, just waiting for your kind reply!

:yay: - Ok time for corrections - oh that can wait - So who might this "regional power of the concerned region" be?
 
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By agreement, I do not mean written accord or anything of that sort.This is a question, which is dependent on two variables:

1. How the new government which will be formed next year (once Karzai exits) responds.
2. What is Pakistan's objective vis-a-vis the point.

Make no mistake, the primary reason why India is pouring in aid and building infrastructure is to build goodwill, protect its investments and ensure there is no return to a training battleground.

My dear do you really think Afghan fighter do need outsider training for any reason.....??

Dear two things.....I don't know what's your opinion about this peace process.....but to me it is from the beginning a failure attempt......this peace process does not address the concerns of immediate neighbours of Afghanistan......nor the objectives and concerns of other players involved in Afghanistan......just imaging US forces in three bases in Afghanistan after 2014 under the rule of Taliban......is it by any chance a possible event...........

This matter is more complicated than the formation of new government......and that too in Democratic manner......

As far as Pakistan's objective is concern Peace in Afghanistan is more important for Pakistan than it is for Afghanistan itself.....you think Pakistan used this backyard for some training purpose in past.....we think India is using Afghanistan for BALOCHISTAN INSURGENCY.......it is peace that both India & Pakistan need but........version of peace is different...... same is the case for every other active player in Afghanistan.......all have their versions of peace

I think current course of events is in direction of another civil war in Afghanistan.......which will create a geographical and political black hole......which may consume some international resources this time
 
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:yay: - Ok time for corrections - oh that can wait - So who might this "regional power of the concerned region" be?

dear lord sir,
its not a good time to feul a unseen fire?
but you can imagine by your goodself, with failing on sirayan front whats going on in big brother & his arabic servents mind?
that thier golden run is just about to end its golden durration?
for saving thier golden momments they just need a war bassed on secterian divide within our islamic sects?
hopefully it all will go down, cause we are not living in 80s & china & russia have start taking thier respisibilities?
just like they did in sirya!
 
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1000s dead in Uttharkand , 70,000 missing but india is worried about her pet Hanood Karzia
 
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Ok, Weeeee, and away we go - When last we visited the zoo, we heard from the Pakistanis that the US and Kerry had a problem, they had promised to different players what were, or at least to be, mutually exclusive positions -- and that once Kerry got to India, Afghanistan would be served on the agenda and with much displeasure, How do US diplomacy and Kerry soothe those feathers?? Meanwhile, back at the ranch, TTP have made themselves heard :

Kerry urges 'central role' for India in Afghan elections
By AFP
Published: June 23, 2013


NEW DELHI: US Secretary of State John Kerry called Sunday for a “central role” for India in Afghanistan’s 2014 elections as he warned of potential difficulties in the war-torn nation as US forces withdraw.

“The world’s largest democracy can play a central role in helping the government of Afghanistan improve its electoral system and create a credible and independent framework for resolving disputes,” Kerry said in New Delhi.

Afghanistan is scheduled to hold presidential elections on April 5, 2014 when the incumbent Hamid Karzai is due to stand down.

The country’s last presidential elections in 2009 were marred by massive vote-rigging which helped prompt Karzai’s rival Abdullah Abdullah to pull out of a second round.

Indian officials are expected to raise concerns with Kerry, who is on a three-day visit there, about the upcoming US withdrawal from Afghanistan.

It is also uneasy about the prospect of negotiations with the Taliban, who are sworn enemies of India.

Kerry said that no agreement would be rushed through and that “a final settlement may be long in coming.”

“And let me be clear: Any political settlement must result in the Taliban breaking ties with al Qaeda, renouncing violence, and accepting the Afghan constitution – including its protections for all Afghans, women and men,” said the top US diplomat.

“Afghanistan cannot again become a safe haven for international terrorism.”

The subject is likely to feature high on the agenda in talks between Kerry and Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on Monday, with officials in New Delhi saying they are anxious to hear more about the future US plans in Afghanistan.
 
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