Afghan army must block Taliban gains to spur talks: Pakistan

[A-Team]

1. PAK army can't defeat the TTP because the TTP runs across the border to Afghanistan and plan their operations from here, you can kill as many TTP as you want but as long as they have a safe heaven on the other side, you will not be able to eleimiate them and the insurgency will continue unabated.

Now apply the same logic to Afghan Talis, Haqqanis etc. the ANSF is killing them in droves but when they cross the border to Pakistan, when their leadership gathers and select lieutenant openly in Quetta, when they receive religious blessing from the JUI-S Sami-ul-Haq and his Madrasses, you can see that this menace of terriostm will effect AF-Pak for years to come.

Summary : AF-PAK must join hands, stop differentiating between good and bad Talis, say NO to more talks and defeat them militarily on both sides.




________________________________

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-pakistan-afghanistan-idUSKCN0YB0RN


Afghanistan must limit military gains by the Taliban and offer incentives to the insurgents to revive a faltering peace effort, Pakistani's top foreign ministry official said, after the latest round of talks yielded little progress.

The Afghan Taliban control or contest more territory than at any time since they was ousted by a U.S.-led intervention in 2001. The militants did not show up at talks on Wednesday in Islamabad, which also involved China and the United States.

Afghanistan declined to send a full delegation to Islamabad in protest against what it says is Pakistan's unwillingness to do more to pressure Taliban leadership, including those on Pakistani soil, to join talks.

Pakistani Foreign Secretary Aizaz Ahmed Chaudhry, the ministry's top bureaucrat, said efforts to persuade the Taliban to talk directly to the Kabul government could only bear fruit if the Afghan army stopped the Taliban from gaining the upper hand.

"We believe that there should be effective action by Afghan national security forces to ensure that there are no military gains by the Taliban," Chaudhry told Reuters in an interview late on Thursday.

The Taliban "need to realize they would have more to gain on the table than they can do on the battlefield", he said.

Afghan security forces have struggled to contain the Taliban since NATO-led forces pulled out of combat operations in 2014.

Fighting has been fierce and more than 6,600 Afghan soldiers and police were killed last year, according to the U.S. Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction.

However, despite the brief capture by the militants of the northern city of Kunduz last year, they have not been able to capture and hold on to any provincial capital.

Chaudhry said officials at the Islamabad talks had told him Taliban gains in an offensive this year were not as big as the insurgents had hoped.

The first formal talks with the Taliban since their 2001 ouster collapsed in 2015 after it was announced that their founder, Mullah Mohammad Omar, had been dead for two years, throwing the militant group into disarray.

The movement has since split on whether to participate in talks.



"OPTIMISTIC"

Afghanistan has accused Pakistan of harboring militants seeking to topple the Afghan government, including the notorious Haqqani network, blamed for high-profile attacks in Kabul.

Pakistan denies that but nevertheless, the United States has also urged Pakistani to do more against militants on its soil.

The U.S. Senate on Thursday passed a defense policy bill increasing restrictions on military aid for Pakistan over frustrations it has failed to crack down on the Haqqani network.

Chaudhry said the bulk of the Afghan Taliban leadership was in Afghanistan and Pakistan was using all "leverage and influence" at its disposal to get them to the table.

"We are doing whatever we can to persuade the Taliban and the Haqqani leadership, whoever we can contact," he said. "We believe the Afghan government should also make ... a similar kind of effort."

The Pakistani foreign secretary also urged Kabul to create "incentives" and confidence-building measures to persuade the Taliban that it was serious about giving peace a chance.

But last month, following a bomb attack in Kabul that killed 64 people, Afghan President Ashraf Ghani declared that, while the door to peace was not fully closed, military operations would have priority.

Ghani said he no longer expected Pakistan to bring the Taliban to the table but it must act against militants sheltering in its territory who rejected peace.

Chaudhry said the talks were not dead.

"We need to remain optimistic," Chaudhry said. "The signal we get is that the Taliban have not said 'yes' to the talks but have also not said 'no'."

 

[Rajput_Pakistani]

@A-Team

Lets assume, that you are right about safe heavens of Afghan Taliban in Pakistan and vice versa. My question is what is your government reservations then when Pakistan wants to seal the border?
Why not Afghanistan join hands with Pakistan and physically seal this border, start joint patrols, which will curb the cross border movements on both sides and the issue is resolved?

 

[New World]

@A-Team bro, equation is not as simple as your are presenting here..

TTP: Tehrik e taliban pakistan (TTP) has no roots in Pakistan and neither it has public support in Pakistan.. it is just a foreign funded org with foreign fighters..

AT: Afghan Taliban (Taliban) has it root in Afghanistan and it also enjoys public support inside Afghanistan.. you cannot defeat them if there is any local support to them..

as for cooperation between Afghanistan and Pakistan is concerned...
if you want Pakistan to fully cooperate than Afghanistan has to undo india;s proxies in afghanistan.. there is no other way to stabilize Afghanistan..

NOTE: until and unless indian proxies are in Afghanistan, Afghanistan will suffer..

 

[Khan_21]

TTP has already been defeated and terrorism is almost dead here. The only country that needs to worry is afghanistan .

 

[Khan_21]

@A-Team bro, equation is not as simple as your are presenting here..

TTP: Tehrik e taliban pakistan (TTP) has no roots in Pakistan and neither it has public support in Pakistan.. it is just a foreign funded org with foreign fighters..

AT: Afghan Taliban (Taliban) has it root in Afghanistan and it also enjoys public support inside Afghanistan.. you cannot defeat them if there is any local support to them..

as for cooperation between Afghanistan and Pakistan is concerned...
if you want Pakistan to fully cooperate than Afghanistan has to undo india;s proxies in afghanistan.. there is no other way to stabilize Afghanistan..

NOTE: until and unless indian proxies are in Afghanistan, Afghanistan will suffer..

Pakistan will move ahead with or without Afghanistan . In 10 years time we will be in top 25 economies of the world and afghanistan will be in the same stoneage as before. So its Afghanistan's loss if it doesn't cooperate. Their GDP per capita went from $ 600 last year to $ 527 this year . Their economy is shrinking every year , Taliban control large swathes of the country and the people basically have stone age mentality .

 

[CHD]

1. PAK army can't defeat the TTP because the TTP runs across the border to Afghanistan and plan their operations from here, you can kill as many TTP as you want but as long as they have a safe heaven on the other side, you will not be able to eleimiate them and the insurgency will continue unabated.

WTF are you smooking, where were you for the last 2 years during operation zarb-e-azb. we have already defeated and eliminated more than 80% of TTP, the ones which are left have taken shelter in afghnistan under protection of RAW and NDS.
Just compare the events of terror in Pakistan before operations and after, i know you are dumb but atleast you can count, right?

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Poster is confused just like kabul regime.

What Pakistan is saying that Afghan Army need to demonstrate ability to fight Afghan Taliban which they are failing miserably. Unless that is not achived, Taliban will give two finger salute to the Kabul regime. its is just common sense.

From Pakistani prespective, this is what needs to happen inside Afghansitan for durable peace.

1) The rebranded Northern alliance aka Kabul regime needs to be thrown out, put in their place and replaced by people who are neutral and understand the ground realities. As long as these northern farsawani lot are in power circles, there can be no peace with Pakistan as their bread and butter comes from India.

2) Afghanistan need to stop doing its randi rona about cross border movement specially at times when Pakistan is insisting on sealing the border and perhaps joint border management so different elements cant move freely both ways. The Afghan opposition to this actually give credence to reported NDS and RAW nexus of sending terrorists inside Pakistan using porous border.

 

[Sabawoon_Noorzai]

No one is welling to entertain Pakistani shenanigans. The crux of the matter is that Taliban and other terrorist organisations are operating from within it with impunity to say the least if not receiving full support from the establishment. Now Pakistan can make a thousand and one excuses including trying to point somewhere else at the end of the day what the country itself and the establishment needs to do is to clamp down on terrorists that operate from its within. All Taliban and Haqani terrorist networks's leaders as have been admitted reside and operate from there. It would need to arrest, kill or hand them over is what the world of those that matter is demanding the country. As far is everyone else is concerned that is where the core of the problem is.

Pakistan will move ahead with or without Afghanistan . In 10 years time we will be in top 25 economies of the world and afghanistan will be in the same stoneage as before. So its Afghanistan's loss if it doesn't cooperate. Their GDP per capita went from $ 600 last year to $ 527 this year . Their economy is shrinking every year , Taliban control large swathes of the country and the people basically have stone age mentality .

I would love to hear how you came to that conclusion. I would say that's a very tall order. Purely for the sake of my curiosity please do explain.

 

[Bratva]

No one is welling to entertain Pakistani shenanigans. The crux of the matter is that Taliban and other terrorist organisations are operating from within it with impunity to say the least if not receiving full support from the establishment. Now Pakistan can make a thousand and one excuses including trying to point somewhere else at the end of the day what the country itself and the establishment needs to do is to clamp down on terrorists that operate from its within. All Taliban and Haqani terrorist networks's leaders as have been admitted reside and operate from there. It would need to arrest, kill or hand them over is what the world of those that matter is demanding the country. As far is everyone else is concerned that is where the core of the problem is.


I would love to hear how you came to that conclusion. I would say that's a very tall order. Purely for the sake of my curiosity please do explain.

Point one military commander of Afghan taliban and Haqqani group which is currently residing in Pakistan and monitoring their operations from Pakistan. Do you proof of any of that ? Like this where you were meeting with TTP leaders and providing them State protocol ?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/29/world/asia/us-disrupts-afghans-tack-on-militants.html

 

[Sabawoon_Noorzai]

Point one military commander of Afghan taliban and Haqqani group which is currently residing in Pakistan and monitoring their operations from Pakistan. Do you proof of any of that ? Like this where you were meeting with TTP leaders and providing them State protocol ?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/29/world/asia/us-disrupts-afghans-tack-on-militants.html

The thing is if the Afghan Intel was only attempting to cultivate the ttp what appear to have gone sore. The motive could well have been to seek a leverage against Pakistan's longstanding support for taliban and other terrorist groups which form the sharp edge of Pakistan's foreign policy.

Now when it comes to isi and terror outfits like taliban and haqanis nexus - they are more serious, and poses by far greater risks to the stability and security of the region.

Ask Sartaj Aziz he will tell you all about it you don't need to believe the same US and Afghans. Too late asking for proof.

 

[Bratva]

The things if the Afghan Intel was only attempting to cultivate the ttp what appear to have gone sore. The motive could well have been to seek a leverage against Pakistan's longstanding support for taliban and other plethora of terrorist groups which form the sharp edge of Pakistan's foreign policy.

Now when it comes to isi and terror outfits like taliban and haqanis nexus is concerned are more serious, poses by far greater risks.

Ask Sartaj Aziz he will tell you all about it you don't need to believe the same US and Afghans. Too late asking for proof.


The things if the Afghan Intel was only attempting to cultivate the ttp what appear to have gone sore. The motive could well have been to seek a leverage against Pakistan's longstanding support for taliban and other plethora of terrorist groups which form the sharp edge of Pakistan's foreign policy.

Now when it comes to isi and terror outfits like taliban and haqanis nexus is concerned are more serious, poses by far greater risks.

Ask Sartaj Aziz he will tell you all about it you don't need to believe the same US and Afghans. Too late asking for proof.

You see, this is the kind of ignorance you lot suffering and blame Pakistan to cover up your own mistakes & shortcomings. A year and half back, two major AT and Haqqani leader was caught from Bahrain, Not from Pakistan as they were there for fund raising and to meet their relatives. I dont see you lot bitching to saudia , qatar and Bahrain for why hosting such elements on their soil.

Only those leaders are hosted on Pakistani soil which are engaged in Reconciliation efforts with full knowledge of USA ,afghanistan & china. Just the same lot which is stationed in Qatar. I dont see you bitching about qatar eh?

And last time It was your own Karzai who was asking for Mullah Baradar release

Karzai gets his wish on Taliban release Pakistan's decision to free second-in-command Abdul Ghani Baradar could boost peace process, but critics are sceptical.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/29/world/asia/us-disrupts-afghans-tack-on-militants.html

Eliminate military leadership of Haqqani and AT which is in afghanistan and stop blaming pakistan for your own shortcomings.

 

[CHD]

The thing is if the Afghan Intel was only attempting to cultivate the ttp what appear to have gone sore. The motive could well have been to seek a leverage against Pakistan's longstanding support for taliban and other terrorist groups which form the sharp edge of Pakistan's foreign policy.

Now when it comes to isi and terror outfits like taliban and haqanis nexus - they are more serious, and poses by far greater risks to the stability and security of the region.

Ask Sartaj Aziz he will tell you all about it you don't need to believe the same US and Afghans. Too late asking for proof.

How much area of afghanistan does kabul control and why would taliban seek shelter in Pakistan if they have entire areas under thier control in afghanistan? just like when they took control of kunduz and without US air support afghans has no answer to them.
And if the senior leaders were in Pakistan, US would have taken them out by drones or other methods like they did with OBL in the last 15 years, isnt it strange that US has never targetted haqqanis or other senior leaders in the last 15 years.

 

[Sabawoon_Noorzai]

You see, this is the kind of ignorance you lot suffering and blame Pakistan to cover up your own mistakes & shortcomings. A year and half back, two major AT and Haqqani leader was caught from Bahrain, Not from Pakistan as they were there for fund raising and to meet their relatives. I dont see you lot bitching to saudia , qatar and Bahrain for why hosting such elements on their soil.

Only those leaders are hosted on Pakistani soil which are engaged in Reconciliation efforts with full knowledge of USA ,afghanistan & china. Just the same lot which is stationed in Qatar. I dont see you bitching about qatar eh?

And last time It was your own Karzai who was asking for Mullah Baradar release

Karzai gets his wish on Taliban release Pakistan's decision to free second-in-command Abdul Ghani Baradar could boost peace process, but critics are sceptical.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/29/world/asia/us-disrupts-afghans-tack-on-militants.html

Eliminate military leadership of Haqqani and AT which is in afghanistan and stop blaming pakistan for your own shortcomings.

Hold your horse with name calling. He went there from Pakistan I would argue. 98% are in Pakistan.

Karzai wanted mullah brrader released because they were in contact and there had been interactions between them about peace until Pakistan arrested mullah berader to cut karzai short just achieving that.

I do not matter and nor does how much you would like rant on and on but what matter is the dominant believe around the world and at every level that Pakistan supports and tolerates terrorists for the sake foreign policy goals. It's up to you how you come clean on that.

How much area of afghanistan does kabul control and why would taliban seek shelter in Pakistan if they have entire areas under thier control in afghanistan? just like when they took control of kunduz and without US air support afghans has no answer to them.
And if the senior leaders were in Pakistan, US would have taken them out by drones or other methods like they did with OBL in the last 15 years, isnt it strange that US has never targetted haqqanis or other senior leaders in the last 15 years.

Those areas are limited pockets and not safe for them. 99% of their leadership are in pak. U.S could have potentially only targeted them in waziristan. Pakistan would not allow u.s to carry out strikes in Quetta, or Karachi for example.

 

[Bratva]

Hold your horse with name calling. He went there from Pakistan I would argue. 98% are in Pakistan.

Karzai wanted mullah brrader released because they were in contact and there had been interactions between them about peace until Pakistan arrested mullah berader to cut karzai short just achieving that.

I do not matter and nor does how much you would like rant on and on but what matter is the dominant believe around the world and at every level that Pakistan supports and tolerates terrorists for the sake foreign policy goals. It's up to you how you come clean on that.





Those areas are limited pockets and not safe for them. 99% of their leadership are in pak. U.S could have potentially only targeted them in waziristan. Pakistan would not allow u.s to carry out strikes in Quetta, or Karachi for example.

Can you prove he went there to bahrain from Pakistan . Tell us the names of 98 percent who are currently residing in Pakistan. Lets see how much knowledgeable you are.There is dominate believe around world that Afghan army is madeup of child molestors, drug lords, drug addicts. So how Afghan army is making gains against Taliban if they are totally inept ? You do too have to come clean on that instead of blaming pakistan and hiding your own ineptude army

 

[Khan_21]

No one is welling to entertain Pakistani shenanigans. The crux of the matter is that Taliban and other terrorist organisations are operating from within it with impunity to say the least if not receiving full support from the establishment. Now Pakistan can make a thousand and one excuses including trying to point somewhere else at the end of the day what the country itself and the establishment needs to do is to clamp down on terrorists that operate from its within. All Taliban and Haqani terrorist networks's leaders as have been admitted reside and operate from there. It would need to arrest, kill or hand them over is what the world of those that matter is demanding the country. As far is everyone else is concerned that is where the core of the problem is.


I would love to hear how you came to that conclusion. I would say that's a very tall order. Purely for the sake of my curiosity please do explain.

Which conclusion? Which part was confusing ?