Afghan aggression in Pakistan

[Sher Malang]

Given that the very foundations of this movement were built on deceipt, there is no way in hell that the Taliban would ever rule Afghanistan again. The only significant strategic advantage they offer to Pakistan is in their ability to keep the pot boiling through assassinations and terrorism to soe discord among Afghans. Yet many among the Taliban are innocent of intent, in that they haven't a clue that they're being used as pawns against their own country. For this reason, the Afghan government must carefully proceed in reconciling with those who show a willingness to respect the Afghan constitution. It'll be a long drawn-out process that will however see Afghanistan pull through and become all the stronger for it. After all, "that which doesn't break you makes you stronger".....may God show mercy on our enemies, for we will not forget the immense suffering they brought on our people.

The Talib in this video knows nothing about Islam even he can't recite Kalama-e-Taiba; he is kaffir in my eyes and he was caught doing 'Jihad' offered by Taliban!

 

[KingMamba]

For your information, Mullah Omar is neither a Kandahari, nor is he from a prominant Durrani tribe. That's possibly one of the underlying reasons behind Pakistan's support behind him. They needed a nobody with dellusions of grandeur who would always require their support. He owed his success to the order his forces promised while Afghans found themselves in the grip of marauding predators thriving in a land of post-Soviet chaos. His greatest asset however was an effective Pakistani propaganda machine that sought to carefully position the movement as one that sought peace if only to pave the way for the return of Mohammed Zahir Shah, Afghanistan's highly respected last reigning monarch. This ensured a massive recruitment drive, whilst ISI trained assets bolstered the movement's fire-power under the direction of ex-Pakistani military generals that offered plausible deniability. Mullah Omar only showed his tue intentions to rule as "Amir ul Momanin" AFTER his movement captured Kabul. Pakistan's strategic objective was no more than to ensure that Afghanistan was to permanently exist as an open air mental asylum.

Given that the very foundations of this movement were built on deceipt, there is no way in hell that the Taliban would ever rule Afghanistan again. The only significant strategic advantage they offer to Pakistan is in their ability to keep the pot boiling through assassinations and terrorism to soe discord among Afghans. Yet many among the Taliban are innocent of intent, in that they haven't a clue that they're being used as pawns against their own country. For this reason, the Afghan government must carefully proceed in reconciling with those who show a willingness to respect the Afghan constitution. It'll be a long drawn-out process that will however see Afghanistan pull through and become all the stronger for it. After all, "that which doesn't break you makes you stronger".....may God show mercy on our enemies, for we will not forget the immense suffering they brought on our people.

Decades ago, we had formidable leaders who recognised the dangers that were facing Afghanistan but were powerless to mobilize the nation behind them in the way they had hoped. Afghans respected them, but they never understood them enough to work with them. Today however, there is an immense national awakening being observed among the Afghan youth right across the country. I look into their eyes and I know that the future of Afghanistan will be safe and secure. Whereas decades ago we had one Sardar Daud Khan, today we've thousands of Sardar Daud Khans ready to serve their nation.

I never said he was born in Kandahar but the Taliban however was. The rest of your passage was just a rant and I am sure you have patriotic leaders but I pray you forget about getting "revenge" on your neighbors or it won't end well for your country. As for ISI making Taliban that is false the Taliban was your own indigenous movement and most of the Afghans welcomed their rule which is why they swept across the country as easily as they except for the little area controlled by the Northern alliance. Only peace and reconciliation will help both countries in the future.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Also the main food of the groups like Taliban( I don't different between Pakistani and Afghan) is the radicalization of society and you know very well that Pakistan's establishment actively encouraged radicalization while driving the Soviet's out in full connivance with the Americans.
If the same disease that is troubling both. The only difference is you hate TTP while Afghans hate Taliban. Also, it were the Americans who took out TTP chief from Pakistan. And it is only the Americans who will take out the current TTP chief . Again from Pakistan. The base for every militant group has to be Pakistan. God knows why.

But brother that's what the Taliban are.
I strongly belief the ordinary people of Pakistani are nice people. How can they support a group like Taliban is completely beyond me.

as far as i know, we are blamed for haqqani ''network'' time to time --as if to say that Afghanistan would see no indigenous resistance of its own (absolute, downright hogwash and a deviation from reality)

to those afghans , they should ask why talebans have as many strongholds inside Afghanistan...they give us too much credit for a domestic phenomenon

 

[KRAIT]

I feel its one in a lifetime opportunity for Afghanistan to achieve peace afterall. Terrorists will assassinate people and blow up building but it shouldn't hinder the work to achieve stability and better life. If you die opposing them, you will atleast give a chance to your children to have better future, a future with education, medical facilities, good standard of living, a society without bomb and guns and a nation of promising future.

The people should oppose any govt. even present or future one who tries to make any deal with Taliban. You have over 100,000 ANA soldiers, western weapons and equipment, economic aid from around the world, countries helping you in developing and educating your human resources like India.

There are already talks of mining your resources by India, China etc. which will give you much needed money to reform your economy. Any mis-adventure against Pakistan should not be done, better work with them against cross-border terrorism, guard your borders, make a line, forget the past, lost lives can't be recovered, but atleast give them their due as they laid down for betterment of their future generation.

It sounds idealistic but actually its practical approach hidden behind the presentable view to guide common people who don't understand geo-politics, who struggle everyday to protect and survive and dream that one day they won't hear a sound of bullet or bomb.

CAR countries, Pakistan, India, China all want Afghanistan for transit too. Atleast India needs it.

Afghanistan have strategic location, untapped resource, low population and willing human resource. These are the building blocks of a firm base of emerging country. Take the best out of what has been proposed to you by the world.

Don't create an enemy out of Pakistan when you already have internal enemy like Taliban. Slay the inner demons before asking others to do so. India has its difference with Pakistan about terrorist camps, but do we intrude the borders, we could but its good that we aren't, we already have internal problems like Naxalites/maoists etc who kill more people every year than these terrorists. What we did, is we sealed the borders and increased the surveillance so that we can focus on extremists within our country.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

we have over $500m (more actually) invested in Afghanistan; we've built schools, universities, clinics, we've sent NGOs, engineers and technocrats of all fields to help afghans....of course a few ungrateful afghans on this forum (some who never even lived in that country) and the bharti twits would conveniently overlook that ''minor little detail''

there are entire threads on the subject so wont delve further...the facts are out there for those with the courage to learn them

 

[KRAIT]

we have over $500m (more actually) invested in Afghanistan; we've built schools, universities, clinics, we've sent NGOs, engineers and technocrats of all fields to help afghans....of course a few ungrateful afghans on this forum (some who never even lived in that country) and the bharti twits would conveniently overlook that ''minor little detail''

there are entire threads on the subject so wont delve further...the facts are out there for those with the courage to learn them

No one is questioning your $500 million and other humanitarian efforts NOW. Why they don't trust is the support of Taliban for decades.. THEN..(not my personal opinion)..now you also needs them for stability too as they need you because the terrorists working AGAINST Pakistan has emerged in more number in last decade, hiding in Afghanistan's treacherous and challenging environment where its damn difficult for security forces to uproot them both for ISAF and Pakistan. Porous border is one of the most challenging problem.

They need you for transit to India and you need them for reducing Indian influence and their and CAR resources. For ex.- TAPI is more promising than IPI. US already said they have no objection on the other hand supported openly, the TAPI project which is dire need of Pakistan too for its dire need of energy.

Pakistan knew and still do that stable Afghanistan is what the world wants, even China who has so much vested interest. Lets forget the past, look at the economic and strategic benefits Pakistan can have. A strong and willing friend like Afghanistan along with China, can take care of half or more of its worries. It can easily form a solid SCO with Pakistan sitting on critical position.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

uhh yeah, tapi is about as good as dead

 

[KRAIT]

uhh yeah, tapi is about as good as dead

So is IPI, even IP...US already shown its discontent and if economic sanctions worsen more on Iran and its business partners, it will disappear in a day.

Pakistan's economy can't bear isolation from the world, not even NATO countries.

Iran has turned out "to be and not to be " friend dilema. On one hand you don't want Iran to give access of Afghanistan, to India, on the other hand you can't afford Iran as world appointed adversary and loose trade with them especially oil and natural gas. Unless you mine your own fields, position is weakening.

Just tell me what stance Pakistan should have regarding Afghanistan, Iran and TAPI or whatever new projects involving Pakistan and Afghanistan? Any possible compromised but effective strategy. I am all ears.

 

[clmeta]

Well the same arguement holds for TTP. They cannot conduct the kind of attacks they conduct without local support. You know 100 supporters amoung 10000 is enough to find shelter and plan an attack.
The Taleban kill at least hundred civilians for killing 5 soldiers.(out of which probably 3 would be Afghans).
The ideology and thinking of both Talebans is same. An extremist interpretation of religion and dirty tricks like beheading , and then shooting the beheading etc.
Bombing girl schools, banning woman education etc.

as far as i know, we are blamed for haqqani ''network'' time to time --as if to say that Afghanistan would see no indigenous resistance of its own (absolute, downright hogwash and a deviation from reality)

to those afghans , they should ask why talebans have as many strongholds inside Afghanistan...they give us too much credit for a domestic phenomenon

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

well on IP they are playing games....obviously the banks are scared as well, given the cost of being seen as circumventing UN sanctions & being blacklisted

i personally support the go ahead but for better or for worse im not in charge of the affairs of the Republic


tapi? nothing but a pipedream thats all i could say. and quite frankly, its very existence is nothing more than a symbollic snub against Iran; if you think it will actually materialize, get your head examined thoroughly

Well the same arguement holds for TTP. They cannot conduct the kind of attacks they conduct without local support. You know 100 supporters amoung 10000 is enough to find shelter and plan an attack.
The Taleban kill at least hundred civilians for killing 5 soldiers.(out of which probably 3 would be Afghans).
The ideology and thinking of both Talebans is same. An extremist interpretation of religion and dirty tricks like beheading , and then shooting the beheading etc.
Bombing girl schools, banning woman education etc.

i agree for the most part...only difference is afghan taleban/mujahideen/whatever you call them are not at war with the Afghan state

 

[clmeta]

Agreed. TAPI is not feasable.

well on IP they are playing games....obviously the banks are scared as well, given the cost of being seen as circumventing UN sanctions & being blacklisted

i personally support the go ahead but for better or for worse im not in charge of the affairs of the Republic


tapi? nothing but a pipedream thats all i could say. and quite frankly, its very existence is nothing more than a symbollic snub against Iran; if you think it will actually materialize, get your head examined thoroughly



i agree for the most part

Just tell me one thing. Why do Pakistani people sympathize with the Taliban when they have seen the cruelty of their Pakistani counterpart?
I would personally never wish a Taliban rule even for my worst enemies.
In fact the Taliban are not even rational. Completely pig headed, suicidal and dangerous.
Die and Kill. That's all they know.
And again, both Talibans.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Agreed. TAPI is not feasable.


Just tell me one thing. Why do Pakistani people sympathize with the Taliban when they have seen the cruelty of their Pakistani counterpart?
I would personally never wish a Taliban rule even for my worst enemies.
In fact the Taliban are not even rational. Completely pig headed, suicidal and dangerous.
Die and Kill. That's all they know.
And again, both Talibans.

your country supported morally, materially the tamil tigers --who were a LOT worse

 

[KRAIT]

well on IP they are playing games....obviously the banks are scared as well, given the cost of being seen as circumventing UN sanctions & being blacklisted

i personally support the go ahead but for better or for worse im not in charge of the affairs of the Republic


tapi? nothing but a pipedream thats all i could say. and quite frankly, its very existence is nothing more than a symbollic snub against Iran; if you think it will actually materialize, get your head examined thoroughly

Fair enough, TAPI is a lost cause as long as Afghanistan is unstable and for India, Pakistan in middle of pipeline adds more doubt for feasibility and profitability.

Best thing Pakistan can have regarding IP and without fear of sanctions, is with financial help or loans from China, like they did come up for other projects. In return China wants stable independent Afg. or Afg. with significantly controlled by Pakistan. First instance will take years to materialize . Second may take a decade if we look at the history and influence on Afgh. of US and India. US will leave 10,000 Special Forces soldiers after 2014 and investment of India is many fold compared to Pakistan.

China is the only possible way for Pakistan to get something out of Afghanistan. Otherwise solely they can't do anything, if Afg. gets on track atleast militarily against terrorists hiding both in, Afgh. and Pakistan.

Afghanistan's people have got same concern and sympathy from around the world that Jews got after WW2. Everyone and every country wants to help these people. Even if the concerns have some economic/strategic benefits behind it.(highly likely)

I would happily read what Pakistan can get from Afghanistan in your words?

 

[clmeta]

i agree for the most part...only difference is afghan taleban/mujahideen/whatever you call them are not at war with the Afghan state

Can you explain how?
Waging a war against your government. Killing civilians. Disrupting their own economy?
They are fighting for an "Islamic system" against "kaffirs" and so is TTP. The Afghan Taliban think ANA is America's proxy while TTP claim Pakistan army is American gun for hire. But this is all a drama too recruit innocents, brainwash them and grap power.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

border security and an end to drugs proliferation among other things

i very clearly outlined these already, i wont repeat myself for the sake of repeating myself....review my previous posts in this thread

Can you explain how?
Waging a war against your government. Killing civilians. Disrupting their own economy?
They are fighting for an "Islamic system" against "kaffirs" and so is TTP. The Afghan Taliban think ANA is America's proxy while TTP claim Pakistan army is American gun for hire. But this is all a drama too recruit innocents, brainwash them and grap power.

its complicated....