Aero India 2023

[Deino]

I guess less than that of holier than thou Germany, by destroying energy security of her?

Not sure if such a plain stupid - by the way off topic and lame attempt to insult - post proves anything.

So far it only shows you have no understanding at all on how military hardware is promoted and sold especially by the US.

But ok, keep on dreaming …

 

[MirageBlue]

Not seeing a lot of AMCA pics at this Aero India..here's one that shows it's forward fuselage shape now

 

[IblinI]

HLFT-42

https://twitter.com/x/status/1624647845633724416

Is that a final design? That things needs some redesign for sure, it looks like things from 60s...

 

[MirageBlue]

The indigenous Su-30MKI IRST that is currently in development. A variant of this will be used on the Tejas Mk2 as well as TEDBF and AMCA, plus the HLFT-42 if it ever gets developed.

Extremely important program- the indigenous engine for helicopters HTSE-1200

Flight control actuators for the ALH, LCH and LUH

Deployable Flight Data Recorder system developed for the Hindustan Do-228

Is that a final design? That things needs some redesign for sure, it looks like things from 60s...

Compared to the JL-9/FTC-2000 trainer that is BASED on a design from the 1950s? It's always easy to mock others while your own can't come up with an original trainer design even today and depend on a Yak-130 design or a modified MiG-21.

 

[Deino]

So far it only shows you keep saying you have 'understanding' while all you have are vague 'feelings'

Well, that surely depends on the topic and most of all the own standpoint, but alone a reality check on what all was claimed during since years, shown on several airshows, promised by HAL, the IAF and even more Indian followers versus what actually happened and became true, tells you a lot, who - you or me - has a better understanding of the situation.

And sorry to say, but I have only very slim hopes that this will improve.

 

[1ndy]

No money,no TOT and it will be an expensive paper weight if US decided to sanction India.

I think we have to go all in on the AMCA

US can still ground a large portion of IAF's fleet including AMCA, LCA, MWF if it decided to go with sanctions.

 

[Deino]

...
Compared to the JL-9/FTC-2000 trainer that is BASED on a design from the 1950s? It's always easy to mock others while your own can't come up with an original trainer design even today and depend on a Yak-130 design or a modified MiG-21.

Good point and indeed the new trainer might be the closest analogue to the FTC-2000, however the point is, in China this design is already flying since years, itsef is used by the PLA only as an interim type, for export has gained only really little success - since the market for such types is - at least IMO - more than overcrowded and if India can develop it quick enough to still enter the game is yet another question.

IMO - but again who I am? - it is a waste of resources.

 

[hembo]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1625762903151509504

 

[IblinI]

Compared to the JL-9/FTC-2000 trainer that is BASED on a design from the 1950s? It's always easy to mock others while your own can't come up with an original trainer design even today and depend on a Yak-130 design or a modified MiG-21.

If you take it as an insult, not my problem then.

 

[VkdIndian]

Continued..

Where all an engine with this power can be employed?

 

[indushek]

Where all an engine with this power can be employed?

You mean Kaveri or the other one in the post you quoted?

If Kaveri, it's for Ghatak UCAV (without afterburner) and maybe HLFT 42 as well maybe if it's ready

 

[VkdIndian]

If Kaveri, it's for Ghatak UCAV (without afterburner) and maybe HLFT 42 as well maybe if it's ready

Kaveri.

Since HLFT is going to be better than M2000, Kaveri meeting that requirement is a little unlikely. One would need a proven engine with a decent performance and not just an engine. An engine with decent performance envelope is something that Kaveri is unlikely to meet in its first iteration.

 

[indushek]

Kaveri.

Since HLFT is going to be better than M2000, Kaveri meeting that requirement is a little unlikely. One would need a proven engine with a decent performance and not just an engine. An engine with decent performance envelope is something that Kaveri is unlikely to meet in its first iteration.

You are right, yes in current iteration it can't meet the requirement.

HVT's interview (you can find it few pages back actually, I linked it in here), clears that they are looking for a powerplant that is powerful than even GE-404 (which goes into LCA MK1, am sure you know this too). This means that they are looking for a GE-414 class engine for HLFT, and Kaveri as of now makes around 46KN dry and about 76 KN wet thrust if am not wrong. It's not enough, so they have now started work on cranking up the dry thrust to 53KN or something. I think it's datafreak who mentioned this, somewhere again in this thread.

This actually puzzles me a lot, as I thought Lift trainers are supposed to be cheap to acquire, but the capabilities they are aiming for will make it a expensive one. There is one thing though, I remember about reading somewhere, it doesn't have any composite material component. So all metal body, not sure if this helps in keeping costs down.

 

[MirageBlue]

Good point and indeed the new trainer might be the closest analogue to the FTC-2000, however the point is, in China this design is already flying since years, itsef is used by the PLA only as an interim type, for export has gained only really little success since the market for such types is - at least IMO more than overcrowded - and if India can develop it quick enough to still enter the game is yet another question.

IMO - but again why I am? - it is a waste of resources.

All that is just semantics and doesn't change the fact that as of TODAY, the PLAAF has 2 trainers, one is a MiG-21 derivative that it still offers to low cost users and the other is a Chinese Yak-130 variant.

China basically created a LIFT out of a MiG-21UB Mongol trainer baseline. And the other Hongdu L-15 was basically a Yakovlev design in every sense of the word.

They did it for whatever their reasons were and I frankly don't care enough to judge them on that.

But the fact remains that even Boeing, when faced with a situation where they needed to design a LIFT for the USAF Trainer competition, chose to go with a tried and tested design.

The T-7A is essentially based on the F-18 C/D Hornet design, since Boeing had the drawings for it from the time that it bought McDonnell Douglas. Rather than starting completely from scratch, they took what they had, brought in Saab for their skills in MBD and small tactical fighters and came up with the T-7A.

This was Northrop Grumman's N400NT prototype which it wanted to enter into the USAF's Trainer competition. Does it look revolutionary or a 5th gen LIFT? The way I see it, if the HLFT-42 is refined further, with some forward fuselage mods it won't look very different than this N400NT

It has been clarified that HAL came up with the idea of the HLFT-42 due to certain requirements from the USAF trainer contest that would have required more work on the Tejas trainer. They would've wanted to get a design into development that was known to them and hence they went to the HF-24 which was aerodynamically considered to be very good.

As of now, it is still a concept that they're pitching. It hasn't even had an engine finalized, so it is quite preliminary and will take much more refinement going forward as it progresses into preliminary and then detailed design.

 

[Deino]

Still no real news on the Tejas Mk.2?