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Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft [AMCA] Development | Updates & Discussions.

AMCA may be the first completely indigenous fighter aircraft in IAF's inventory by 2022-23....by 2017 India will start the development of this indigenous stealth fighter & around 2020-21 it will take first official flight & after that flight test it may take upto 2-3 years more to be cleared by IAF for operational induction into its fleet....& by 2030 IAF may have upto 60-80 or even 100 (if developed fast) AMCA aircrafts in its inventory, it will have 5.5th Generation Capability that will give it the power of serving the role of both 5th & 6th Generation Stealth fighters, if needed......!!!
Its still on drawing board so talking about Its induction and setting timelines are anything but wise.

As long as Kaveri doesn't evolve nothing will ever happen.:hitwall:
I don't think that they are going to repeat same mistake as with LCA. They may persue project with some foreign engine while trying to develop kaveri but independent of each other.
 
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@sancho How do you feel about bringing in a foreign partner in AMCA program? Rafael or may be even EADS?
 
@sancho How do you feel about bringing in a foreign partner in AMCA program? Rafael or may be even EADS?

I am all for a partnership and have pointed several times to numerous options we had / have, be it Brazil / Embraer, Boeing in combination with a F18SH deal or Dassault, Airbus / EF consortium in return for the MMRCA deal. Without a propper partner and more over without a propper purpose in mind, this project will get nowhere.
 
I am all for a partnership and have pointed several times to numerous options we had / have, be it Brazil / Embraer, Boeing in combination with a F18SH deal or Dassault, Airbus / EF consortium in return for the MMRCA deal. Without a propper partner and more over without a propper purpose in mind, this project will get nowhere.
I was watching the stratpost video, and one gentleman there stated something about german's willing to partner in the LCA, and later being let down by MoD behest of the french.
I see Israel or the germans, as a viable potential viable partner for the AMCA, hopefully something develops.
 
I was watching the stratpost video, and one gentleman there stated something about german's willing to partner in the LCA, and later being let down by MoD behest of the french.
I see Israel or the germans, as a viable potential viable partner for the AMCA, hopefully something develops.

I know which part you mean, but he mixed up some things there. The Germans or better the Germans and French from EADS / Airbus wanted to team up for an advanced trainer version of LCA, because that was cheaper to develop than going for their older plan to develop the EADS Mako trainer. So sadly the Germans only wanted to team up for the trainer, besides being involved in the project already as a consultend for the navalisation of N-LCA. It would had been a great chance for Tejas if we played it smart then, to combine the such a partnership for the trainer version with the procurement of EJ 200 engines, the development of TVC and the development of the N-LCA tech demo version. The more committed they would be in the LCA project, the more it had helped us. But pride and wrong decisions were and remains to be major problems that makes LCA suffer.

The Germans alone will not go for a stealth fighter project, they have more than enough trouble with the EF and it's cost, not to mention that they hardly use their fighters in NATO conflicts anymore. Even in future their main contribution will lie in surveillance, intel or medical support, while providing fighters and offensive weapons will be seen as problematic in the public. One reason why France is moving away from Germany and towards UK as a partner for weapon developments, since they don't have such problems.
Israel can't afford a joint fighter development, nor would the americans allow that. Once because it hurts their F35 sales, secondly they couldn't control Israels military actions even less than they already can. They might be possibilities for joint development of systems or weapons, but not for a joint fighter.
 
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I know which part you mean, but he mixed up some things there. The Germans or better the Germans and French from EADS / Airbus wanted to team up for an advanced trainer version of LCA, because that was cheaper to develop than going for their older plan to develop the EADS Mako trainer. So sadly the Germans only wanted to team up for the trainer, besides being involved in the project already as a consultend for the navalisation of N-LCA. It would had been a great chance for Tejas if we played it smart then, to combine the such a partnership for the trainer version with the procurement of EJ 200 engines, the development of TVC and the development of the N-LCA tech demo version. The more committed they would be in the LCA project, the more it had helped us. But pride and wrong decisions were and remains to be major problems that makes LCA suffer.

The Germans alone will not go for a stealth fighter project, they have more than enough trouble with the EF and it's cost, not to mention that they hardly use their fighters in NATO conflicts anymore. Even in future their main contribution will lie in surveillance, intel or medical support, while providing fighters and offensive weapons will be seen as problematic in the public. One reason why France is moving away from Germany and towards UK as a partner for weapon developments, since they don't have such problems.
Israel can't afford a joint fighter development, nor would the americans allow that. Once because it hurts their F35 sales, secondly they couldn't control Israels military actions even less than they already can. They might be possibilities for joint development of systems or weapons, but not for a joint fighter.

I feel Israel will not get f22's, and f35 will be adopted to their first tier fighter. There might be a scope for a second tier low observable fighter. that is where AMCA might fit in. Next India being India, should look at a modular combat system which can cater to western as well as russian system with two distinct sensor systems. Israel and India both have expertise in dealing with both western and russian systems.

Europe is not a very reliable partner french are an exception, as they have been throughout thier history.

I think russia and Israel are two partnerships that India needs to consolidate. Russia is still stuck in the 90's mentality and the partnership needs to be evolved into a joint developmental model. Israel is already there but I feel previous government has missed quite a few opportunities to consolidate the partnership.

PMF FGFA and AMCA will be flagship combat systems 20 years in the future. The way AMCA is progressing, it seems like the LCA story all over again, if we learn from our mistakes, IAF's future will remain bleak.
 
I believe firmly that a partnership-JV is the only way to go for AMCA and that the block upgradations in the future can be dealt with in-house. But the partner must be one that is going to be reliable, business and politically speaking. That in mind, I believe an Indo-Israeli-South Korean/Japanese venture would work best.
 
It would had been a great chance for Tejas if we played it smart then, to combine the such a partnership for the trainer version with the procurement of EJ 200 engines, the development of TVC and the development of the N-LCA tech demo version. The more committed they would be in the LCA project, the more it had helped us. But pride and wrong decisions were and remains to be major problems that makes LCA suffer.


Very correct.

Germans were very much impressed with LCA designed and wanted to contribute in program. They wanted to place an order of 12 fighters but we had a blind government at the center in late 80 s an nineties. We missed the opportunity.
 
I feel Israel will not get f22's, and f35 will be adopted to their first tier fighter. There might be a scope for a second tier low observable fighter. that is where AMCA might fit in.

Nobody gets the F22, UK, Israel and Japan tried it (because they found the F35 not to be good enough) and got rejected, but who says AMCA is meant to be like the F22? In fact wasn't the aim of DRDO to present it as our 2nd tier below the FGFA, similar to the low end F35? So that's not really a point for Israel right? But as I said, financial and political hurdles will be a bigger problem for them.

Next India being India, should look at a modular combat system which can cater to western as well as russian system with two distinct sensor systems. Israel and India both have expertise in dealing with both western and russian systems.

That's an advantage when you have access to Russian and western stuff, but India is one of the very few countries that has this luxery, so when the aim is to make AMCA an export stealth fighter too, the variety is actually a limiting factor which already can be seen in the LCA now. We are not able to sell it to any Gulf state, because of the Israeli techs, the US engine means exports can be limited by them and there are not many countries left that would use Russian weapons, when they have western alternatives on offer. Same goes for our Frigates and Destroyers, highly powerful and with advanced systems, thanks to the Russian weapons and Israeli systems, but when we want to export them it will be difficult to find suitable customers for exactly this variety.

Europe is not a very reliable partner french are an exception, as they have been throughout thier history.

And still we procure most of our weapons and techs now from them, if we don't go to Russia in first place. Germany for example is providing us with arms for a long time, but today Indias importance is much higher than in 2000 for example and we have to take "offensive" steps to get them in propper partnerships with us. That's why India being a defence hub for the world would be so important, because it makes all the important countries to commit themselfs to us and the more committed they are, the better for a reliable partnership.

Israel is already there but I feel previous government has missed quite a few opportunities to consolidate the partnership.

True we are at partnership level with Israel, but with crucial limitations based on their financial and political relation to the US. Be it EL 2052 for LCA, for Gripen IN, be it AESA co-developments with them, most likely a denial to provide us with David Sling missiles..., too many problems that sets limitations, not to mention that their industrial capability is limited to certain fields too. Compared to them, Europe is far more independent and can offer much more defence related systems. However as long as they still see us just an emerging country, that is not reliable in defence procurements and developments, it will take time till we actually get to partnership levels. That's why we need to use procurements like MMRCA, LUH, Avro replacement... to a much greater extend to increase political and industrial ties. Seeing them just as procurement is too less and a missed chance.

The way AMCA is progressing, it seems like the LCA story all over again, if we learn from our mistakes, IAF's future will remain bleak.

Sadly yes, which shows that we didn't learned from our mistakes, especially ADA and DRDO. As I told you earlier, for me AMCA is the best chance for HAL to show that they are more than just a production house for ADA / DRDO and that they can be even better than the these 2, by presenting an alternative AMCA in competition to the DRDO / ADA design. But as I said in my last post, the biggest problem is the purpose, because IAF don't need AMCA earlier than in 2030/35, which alone makes that project now unnecessary, except for I, unless IN finally forgets about the useless N-LCA and pitch stronger on a NG carrier fighter, that's where AMCA is really needed!

That in mind, I believe an Indo-Israeli-South Korean/Japanese venture would work best.

India partnering with 3 countries that are highly dependent on the US? We have to increase the relations to these countries independently, but can't really depent on them to take decisions that are not guided from the US.

Very correct.

Germans were very much impressed with LCA designed and wanted to contribute in program. They wanted to place an order of 12 fighters but we had a blind government at the center in late 80 s an nineties. We missed the opportunity.

It's not about the Germans = the government or forces, but EADS that showed actual interest in a trainer version and not the actual fighter and it wasn't in the 80s or 90s, but in the recent years when EADS already got involved as a consultancy partner:

EADS Offers Mako Trainer Technology For LCA
 
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During the year, the R&D divisions at NAL have significantly contributed towards the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft programme of Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA). The R&D efforts led to the new configuration AMCA-3B-08 and a structurally efficient wing layout with four bending attachment brackets and two shear attachment brackets. For the AMCA 3B-08, structural design, analysis and size optimization was carried out to cater for all critical symmetric and un-symmetric load cases. Finite element models were built separately for each of the fuselage segments and then integrated to build a full fuselage finite element model.


From NALs 2014 report
 
View attachment 129278

During the year, the R&D divisions at NAL have significantly contributed towards the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft programme of Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA). The R&D efforts led to the new configuration AMCA-3B-08 and a structurally efficient wing layout with four bending attachment brackets and two shear attachment brackets. For the AMCA 3B-08, structural design, analysis and size optimization was carried out to cater for all critical symmetric and un-symmetric load cases. Finite element models were built separately for each of the fuselage segments and then integrated to build a full fuselage finite element model.


From NALs 2014 report

The air intake and LERX design looks modified ..... o_O
 
View attachment 129278

During the year, the R&D divisions at NAL have significantly contributed towards the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft programme of Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA). The R&D efforts led to the new configuration AMCA-3B-08 and a structurally efficient wing layout with four bending attachment brackets and two shear attachment brackets. For the AMCA 3B-08, structural design, analysis and size optimization was carried out to cater for all critical symmetric and un-symmetric load cases. Finite element models were built separately for each of the fuselage segments and then integrated to build a full fuselage finite element model.


From NALs 2014 report


It seems that a lesson from LCA Mk 1 is learned. In LCA they went for extra large wing not matching fuselage size resulting in wave drag and STR penalty. Even LCA MK2 is not an optimize design. Aerodynamic study shows that optimum length of fuselage should be 1.2 meter longer than the present one. But that would mean a totally new plane resulting into a lots of testing and time overrun as a result. We shall see an optimum length in MK3 which will be a stealthier design. AMCA appears to be a very good design. Avinash chander said that it will be better than rafale.

Engines are too close unlike PAKFA design. Chinese are facing problem with J 20 for mounting Engines too close. We can hope that ADA guys have taken sufficient precautionary measure to avoid anything going wrong with design.
 
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i still not able to understand the name of Aircraft!

Advance medium Aircraft!
i think it should be like Medium Advance Aircraft!
 
i still not able to understand the name of Aircraft!

Advance medium Aircraft!
i think it should be like Medium Advance Aircraft!
Advanced multirole combat aircraft. ... I think!!!

i still not able to understand the name of Aircraft!

Advance medium Aircraft!
i think it should be like Medium Advance Aircraft!
Advanced multirole combat aircraft. ... I think!!!
 

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