When you don't accept we tried I don't know what can be done.
I think you are not in your senses. I said no any government tried it in 60 years except Zia government. And they did it just their interest not for Islam. Proof yourself which & when did.
But don't murder the Quran. you are defiling the Quran by making it seem like some religion that forces things.
Quran has clearly said:
"Let there be no compulsion in Religion: truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah (one God) has grasped the most trustworthy hand hold, that never breaks. and Allah hears, and knows all things."
(Qur'an, Al-Baqarah 2:256)
I dont know what you want to prove by quoting this verse. Anyhow, you can see below its Tafseer:
لاَ إِكْرَاهَ فِى الدِّينِ قَد تَّبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الْغَيِّ
2:256 There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the right path has become distinct from the wrong path.
فَمَنْ يَكْفُرْ بِالطَّـغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِن بِاللَّهِ فَقَدِ اسْتَمْسَكَ بِالْعُرْوَةِ الْوُثْقَى لاَ انفِصَامَ لَهَا وَاللَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ
Whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.
Allah says,
لاَ إِكْرَاهَ فِي الدِّينِ قَد تَّبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الْغَيِّ ...
There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the right path has become distinct from the wrong path.
لاَ إِكْرَاهَ فِي الدِّينِ (There is no compulsion in religion),
meaning, "Do not force anyone to become Muslim, for Islam is plain and clear, and its proofs and evidence are plain and clear. Therefore, there is no need to force anyone to embrace Islam. Rather, whoever Allah directs to Islam, opens his heart for it and enlightens his mind, will embrace Islam with certainty.
Whoever Allah blinds his heart and seals his hearing and sight, then he will not benefit from being forced to embrace Islam.''
It was reported that;
the Ansar were the reason behind revealing this Ayah, although its indication is general in meaning.
Ibn Jarir recorded that Ibn Abbas said (that before Islam),
"When (an Ansar) woman would not bear children who would live, she would vow that if she gives birth to a child who remains alive, she would raise him as a Jew.
When Banu An-Nadir (the Jewish tribe) were evacuated (from Al-Madinah), some of the children of the Ansar were being raised among them, and the Ansar said, `We will not abandon our children.'
Allah revealed, لاَ إِكْرَاهَ فِي الدِّينِ قَد تَّبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الْغَيِّ (There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the right path has become distinct from the wrong path).'' Abu Dawud and An-Nasa'i also recorded this Hadith.
As for the Hadith that Imam Ahmad recorded, in which Anas said that the Messenger of Allah said to a man, أَسْلِم "Embrace Islam.''
The man said, "I dislike it.'' The Prophet said, وَإِنْ كُنْتَ كَارِهًا "Even if you dislike it.''
First, this is an authentic Hadith, with only three narrators between Imam Ahmad and the Prophet.
However, it is not relevant to the subject under discussion, for the Prophet did not force that man to become Muslim.
The Prophet merely invited this man to become Muslim, and he replied that he does not find himself eager to become Muslim. The Prophet said to the man that even though he dislikes embracing Islam, he should still embrace it, `for Allah will grant you sincerity and true intent.'
Tawhid is the Most Trustworthy Handhold
Allah's statement,
... فَمَنْ يَكْفُرْ بِالطَّاغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِن بِاللّهِ فَقَدِ اسْتَمْسَكَ بِالْعُرْوَةِ الْوُثْقَىَ لاَ انفِصَامَ لَهَا وَاللّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ ﴿٢٥٦﴾
Whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.
Whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.
is in reference to, "Whoever shuns the rivals of Allah, the idols, and those that Shaytan calls to be worshipped besides Allah, whoever believes in Allah's Oneness, worships Him alone and testifies that there is no deity worthy of worship except Him, فَقَدِ اسْتَمْسَكَ بِالْعُرْوَةِ الْوُثْقَىَ (then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold).
Therefore, this person will have acquired firmness (in the religion) and proceeded on the correct way and the straight path.
Abu Al-Qasim Al-Baghawi recorded that Umar said,
"Jibt means magic, and Taghut means Shaytan.
Verily, courage and cowardice are two instincts that appear in men, the courageous fights for those whom he does not know and the coward runs away from defending his own mother. Man's honor resides with his religion and his status is based upon his character, even if he was Persian or Nabatian.''
Umar's statement that Taghut is Shaytan is very sound, for this meaning includes every type of evil that the ignorant people of Jahiliyyah (pre Islamic era of ignorance) fell into, such as worshipping idols, referring to them for judgment, and invoking them for victory.
Allah's statement,
... فَقَدِ اسْتَمْسَكَ بِالْعُرْوَةِ الْوُثْقَىَ لاَ انفِصَامَ لَهَا ...
then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break,
means, "He will have hold of the true religion with the strongest grasp.''
Allah equated this adherence to the firm handhold that never breaks because it is built solid and because its handle is firmly connected. This is why Allah said here, فَقَدِ اسْتَمْسَكَ بِالْعُرْوَةِ الْوُثْقَىَ لاَ انفِصَامَ لَهَا (then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break).
Mujahid said,
"The most trustworthy handhold is Iman (faith).''
As-Suddi said that;
it refers to Islam.
Imam Ahmad recorded that Qays bin Abbad said,
"I was in the Masjid when a man whose face showed signs of humbleness came and prayed twoRak`ahs that were modest in length. The people said, `This is a man from among the people of Paradise.' When he left, I followed him until he entered his house, and I entered it after him and spoke with him. When he felt at ease, I said to him, `When you entered the Masjid, the people said such and such things.'
He said, `All praise is due to Allah! No one should say what he has no knowledge of. I will tell you why they said that.
I saw a vision during the time of the Messenger of Allah, and I narrated it to him. I saw that I was in a green garden, and he described the garden's plants and spaciousness, `and there was an iron pole in the middle of the garden affixed in the earth and its tip reached the sky. On its tip, there was a handle, and I was told to ascend the pole. I said, `I cannot.' Then a helper came and raised my robe from behind and said to me, `Ascend.' I ascended until I grasped the handle and he said to me, `Hold on to the handle.' I awoke from that dream with the handle in my hand.
I went to the Messenger of Allah and told him about the vision and he said,
أَمَّا الرَّوْضَةُ فَرَوْضَةُ الْإِسْلَامِ، وَأَمَّا الْعَمُودُ فَعَمُودُ الْإِسْلَامِ، وَأَمَّا الْعُرْوَةُ فَهِيَ الْعُرْوَةُ الْوُثْقَى، أَنْتَ عَلَى الْإِسْلَامِ حَتَّى تَمُوت
As for the garden, it represents Islam; as for the pole, it represents the pillar of Islam; and the handle represents the most trustworthy handhold. You shall remain Muslim until you die.
This Companion was Abdullah bin Salam.''
This Hadith was also collected in the Two Sahihs; and Al-Bukhari also recorded it with another chain of narration.
Source:
Quran Surah (Sura) Baqarah Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Arabic English, HTMl, PDF, with Recitation By Said Al Ghamdi MP3, Free Download
So it is a persons choice what he/she does. Your own women family don't wear abaya (all of them) so don't be a self-righteous champion. No one does now a days. Also it is debatable topic as again there are different views.
How could you say that? Do you know me personally that my own family women dont wear abaya. Are you living in Pakistan or anywhere else? Dont you see around you even teenage girls are wearing abaya now a days. If I am brother, father & husband then being a Muslim man this is my duty that I will ask to them for veil. I am not leader of the society. Everyone has their own. If one will commit the sin he himself will answer to Allah.
Again which view is going to be official. If you say it is must for women to cover hair I say there is interpretation by scholars that say it is not must. So what do we do here. Its an impasse?
Ok. See below translation & Tafseer of verse for veil:
يأَيُّهَا النَّبِىُّ قُل لاًّزْوَجِكَ وَبَنَـتِكَ وَنِسَآءِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ يُدْنِينَ عَلَيْهِنَّ مِن جَلَـبِيبِهِنَّ
33:59 O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their Jalabib over their bodies.
ذلِكَ أَدْنَى أَن يُعْرَفْنَ فَلاَ يُؤْذَيْنَ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ غَفُوراً رَّحِيماً
That will be better that they should be known so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
The Command of Hijab
Allah says:
يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ قُل لِّأَزْوَاجِكَ وَبَنَاتِكَ وَنِسَاء الْمُؤْمِنِينَ يُدْنِينَ عَلَيْهِنَّ مِن جَلَابِيبِهِنَّ ...
O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw theirJalabib over their bodies.
Here Allah tells His Messenger to command the believing women -- especially his wives and daughters, because of their position of honor -- to draw their Jilbabs over their bodies, so that they will be distinct in their appearance from the women of the Jahiliyyah and from slave women.
The Jilbab is a Rida', worn over the Khimar.
This was the view of Ibn Mas`ud, Ubaydah, Qatadah, Al-Hasan Al-Basri, Sa`id bin Jubayr, Ibrahim An-Nakha`i, Ata' Al-Khurasani and others.
It is like the Izar used today.
Al-Jawhari said:
"The Jilbab is the outer wrapper."
Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn Abbas said that;
Allah commanded the believing women, when they went out of their houses for some need, to cover their faces from above their heads with the Jilbab, leaving only one eye showing.
Muhammad bin Sirin said,
"I asked Ubaydah As-Salmani about the Ayah: يُدْنِينَ عَلَيْهِنَّ مِن جَلَابِيبِهِنَّ (to draw theirJalabib over their bodies). He covered his face and head, with just his left eye showing.''
... ذَلِكَ أَدْنَى أَن يُعْرَفْنَ فَلَا يُؤْذَيْنَ ...
That will be better that they should be known so as not to be annoyed.
means, if they do that, it will be known that they are free, and that they are not servants or ******.
... وَكَانَ اللَّهُ غَفُورًا رَّحِيمًا ﴿٥٩﴾
And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
means, with regard to what happened previously during the days of Jahiliyyah, when they did not have any knowledge about this.
Source:
Quran Surah (Sura) Ahzab Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Arabic English, HTMl, PDF, with Recitation By Said Al Ghamdi MP3, Free Download
My point was secularism hasn't made them non-muslim. You accept them as Muslim then? What is the issue with secularism in our land?
Who had given ideology of secularism? Do you know? This ideology had been extracted from communism. The Christian society, initially Europeans had rejected marxism. But when their society was getting influenced by church then they had extracted secular ideology because communism wasnt suite them. So, they create a new terminology. But it doesnt suite to Islam thats why Muslim majority has rejected to it.
I am not a shia but I support it and it has nothing to do with Shias-never have they specified its only for Shias but a thought process that can unite muslims. You are intolerant so you don't understand this. It is a secular ideology that allows scholars and philosophers to bloom. Not one real one has appeared in past many years except Iqbal.
You are continuously trying to manipulate the discussion for sake your own. When did I oppose to Shias? Show one post amongst all my posts that I opposed to Shias. This is another school of thought. They have their own Jurisprudence. They are included in one of Muslim sects.
ASWJ is a terrorist organization with the same name! You support them, they are Sipah e sahaba.
Dear you yourself are continuously showing intolerance. I just named of Ahle Sunnat Wal Jamat then you immediately declared it as terrorist organization. Are you mentally unbalanced? When did you find that I support to Sipah e Sahaba????
See my post in your own thread: They all LeJ, SSP & Sipah-e-Muhammad are terrorist ... They never belong to any sect infact ..
Source:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/social...pah-e-mohammed-war-karachi.html#ixzz2JxYnbVfQ
I dont have enough time to see you bull shits. If you could explain in simple words then 0k.
Didn't that thug defile the Prophet's grave because he was worried people would worship it? ]
Indeed. We must be worried. Because Allah has given his Holy places to righteous Muslims in all over world. If you would be righteous then you would be there.
Didn't he rip women's wombs like babu bajrangi? ] ]
Until you failed to give just one reference that where & when did this thing be done.
You are acting like a fanatic. Shariah, this that. this that.
You have no answer!
We know we are a minority. We won't impose anything
You are trying to impose secularism for your sake.
Yes... It is the wish of every Pakistani patriot. Nationalism and religion are separate.
Your wish is not for Pakistan. you want to erase the name of righteous Ulema from this world. You want this for centuries not from now. But it couldnt be possible yet.
Forget dajjal he took us 1000 years backwards to please British.
No answer regarding dajjal. Anyways, how did he do so?
How did secularism commit an atrocity on bin Hambal? There are still women killed for false charges of adultery and men framed on false charges of blasphemy. Hajjaj bin Yousuf murdered 8 adulterers one day by stoning on false charges. You kidding me. I can blame you guys for it.
I didnt quote secularism in particular post. I meant moatazillah had commit atrocity on Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal. Because they were in power at that time. Kindly get corrected your history. Hajjaj bin Yousuf was the governor of Basra in Umayyad era and Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal was imprisoned in Abbasid era when Mamoon Rashid was the Caliph & he accepted moatazillah beliefs. So, your charges automatically had run out from debate.
I explained this here:
View Post
Saying we want a place for Muslims where they aren't oppressed and saying we want an Islamist system is far different. Remember that. We wanted a place where Muslims weren't oppressed for their beliefs.
Quaid wanted a place for Muslims where they were safe which they are not because he forgot there were Wahabis like you around.
Strange! Whole world recognize him as a genius but you said he forgot. He had known very well that there is 80% Ahle Sunnat Muslims in India.
You support ASWJ terrorists? You call yourself a patriot? You are a terrorist.
Now you are losing your mind. 80% Pakistani Muslims declare themselves Ahle Sunnat. It means 75% people of total population are terrorist. Very good.
He never wanted an Islamic republic. There was a reason Islamic republic wasn't named when he was alive. I had a link too but site is down.
Because constitution was not made in his life and complete name of state is written in constitution. You are so ignorant.
It was. You have to disengage secularism and Islam as differing concepts. A son of Zia will never be able to do that.
Yar! Hazrat Abu Bakar Siddiq (RA) had fought against murtid & killed to those who didnt come back in Islam. Secondly he fought against refuters of Zakat. I think it couldnt be happened in secularism.
Rubbish. I told you they have no sectarianism.
I asked you were they have sectarianism or not before kamalist revolution???? You are getting twisted to discussion.
We would (we would be around 33% of the population-not 40%)
Ok har baat par behas nahi hoti 33% hi lelo. 7% is not a big deal. If we consider Muslims would be 33% then how would more than 360 million people have been oppressed by hindus? Whereas India is a secular state. It means Quaid e Azam was not trust on secularism.
... eg the cow slaughter ban and refusal to allow us provinces. It was built to protect Muslims from their tyranny not for some supra islamic purpose.
It means people are restricted in secular state. Then why not Islamic state?
I say all have been victimized. I never said ONLY christians have been and its because people like you will never be happy until Taliban rule us.
Ok. All are victimized. It means there is no discrimination with minorities by this law. If ruler can correctly implement to this law then no issue will be at all.
I was talking about the discussion part and tolerance part of deen e ilahi. Also I talk about Ijtehad. You will not understand such modern beautiful Islamic concepts being a Wahabi.
Who has brought these modern beautiful Islamic concepts? Kindly tell the name that mujhtahid.
Read this:
Islamic Reformation III: Is Islam compatible with a secular state? | Pak Tea House
And this: The concept of Secularism in Islam has been claimed to have religious sanction too. The Sahih of Imam Muslim, the second most authentic book on Hadith, dating from the 2nd century Hijrah, contains a chapter headed as follows: Whatever the Prophet has said in matters of religion must be followed, but this does not apply to worldly affairs.
The Hadith is as follows: Once Prophet Muhammad came across some people doing artificial pollination of palm trees. Due to some reason he disliked the idea and commented that it would be better not to do any pollination at all. However for the following year the harvest was poor. When he came to know about this Prophet Muhammad admitted his limitation of knowledge regarding secular affairs and said: If a question relates to your worldly matters you would know better about it, but if it relates to your religion then to me it belongs.
You mentioned rubbish website. Although you quoted Hadith and it is good but it is out of context because this Hadith is for purpose of business not politics. You tried gimmick. See in below Quranic verse with tafseer & Hadith:
قَالَ اجْعَلْنِى عَلَى خَزَآئِنِ الاٌّرْضِ إِنِّى حَفِيظٌ عَلِيمٌ
12:55 (Yusuf) said: "Set me over the storehouses of the land; I will indeed guard them with full knowledge.''
Yusuf, peace be upon him said,
قَالَ اجْعَلْنِي عَلَى خَزَآئِنِ الأَرْضِ إِنِّي حَفِيظٌ عَلِيمٌ ﴿٥٥﴾
(Yusuf) said: "Set me over the storehouses of the land; I will indeed guard them with full knowledge."
Yusuf praised himself, for this is allowed when one's abilities are unknown and there is a need to do so. He said that he is, حَفِيظٌ (Hafiz), an honest guard, عَلِيمٌ (`Alim), having knowledge and wisdom about the job he is to be entrusted with.
Prophet Yusuf asked the king to appoint him as minister of finance for the land, responsible for the harvest storehouses, in which they would collect produce for the years of drought which he told them will come. He wanted to be the guard, so that he could dispense the harvest in the wisest, best and most beneficial way.
The king accepted Yusuf's offer, for he was eager to draw Yusuf close to him and to honor him.
Source:
Quran, Surah Yusuf, Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Arabic English, HTMl, PDF
It has been narrated by Abu Huraira that the Holy Prophet (may pceace be upon him) said: Banu Isra'il were ruled over by the Prophets. When one Prophet died, another succeeded him; but after me there is no prophet and there will be caliphs and they will be quite large in number. His Companions said: What do you order us to do (in case we come to have more than one Caliph)? He said: The one to whom allegiance is sworn first has a supremacy over the others. Concede to them their due rights (i. e. obey them). God (Himself) will question them about the subjects whom He had entrusted to them. (Bukhari: 683, Muslim: 276, Ibn Maja: 1031)
If you really serve the ASWJ... then I believe you should be captured by the police actually.... you are a disgrace to true nationalists of this land and sons of Averoes.
I am sure that you will going to mad soon. Best of luck
@
muse, @
Talon, @
JonAsad, @
CoolMinded, @
Zarvan, @
KRAIT, @
LoveIcon, @
Federer, @
Armstrong, @
somebozo, @
hinduguy, @Gigawatt, @
niaz
I ask all of you with justice. This guy @
haviZsultan started this thread with name of Admitting you are a secularist can get you killed in Pakistan. What is his intention? In Pakistan several secularist political parties are working. Like PPP, MQM, PML-Q & ANP are main stream secular parties & PTI & PML-N are semi secular parties. They all are properly working in their constituencies. I admit some secular people sure to die but so many religious people have been killed in last ten years whether they were Shia or Sunni and Deobandi or Barelvi. It doesnt mean that there is no permission to live being secular in Pakistan. All schools of thought are in consensus that there are two groups TTP & LeJ are involved in terrorist activities. I admit Pakistan has severe threats regarding terrorism but this man has tried to spread fake propaganda against Pakistan. You all are patriots of your countries whether he belongs to Pakistan or India. Everyone defends to his country because morally this is his responsibility towards his country but nobody become due stigma of his country. I have very serious reservations that why has he taken such action. Kindly think about it.
......................
