ADA's AMCA Stealth Fighter: Some Canard?

[S-DUCT]

February 24, 2013, (Sawfnews.com) - For the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) Stealth fighter, ADA has developed a design that is sans canards, based on in-house signature reduction and performance studies and simulations.

ADA's decision to not use canards was a bold one. Europeans fighter aircraft manufacturers are heavily into canards – the Eurofighter, Rafale and Grippen all have them.

The Russian MiG I.42 super cruise fighter developed in parallel with the T-50 also featured canards.

Canard wings are associated with better supersonic performance and maneuverability, and the combination of good stealth and good supersonic performance is essential for penetrating enemy defenses safely. Everything else about fifth generation fighters – super maneuverability, sensor fusion, etc. is secondary.

When the Chinese unveiled their Chengdu J-20 heavy stealth fighter in January 2011, it too had canards!

The J-20 is widely believed to be as stealthy as the F-22 from the front, and it should have as good supersonic performance as the F-22.

China's use of canards in its stealth aircraft rattled ADA.

ADA acknowledges that China is well ahead in the game of fighter aircraft design in general and stealth aircraft design in particular. One good reason being, the Chinese programs are very heavily funded as compared to ADA's.

China's Chengdu worked with canards while developing the J-10, but their use of canards on the stealthy J-20 made ADA scientists wonder if they had made the right choice.

ADA must have taken solace from the fact that the Americans have dismissed canard fighters with some disdain, and stuck with non canard fighters. Both their stealth designs - F-22 and F-35 – are non canard and the F-22 has excellent supersonic maneuverability as well as stealth characteristics.

But then, America also has unmatched engine and signature suppression technology, which India doesn't.

ADA Design Vindication

When China unveiled its second stealth fighter, J-31 (F60), in late 2012 ADA's choice of a non canard design appeared to have been vindicated.

Developed by the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation, the medium weight J-31 has no canards. Clearly, the Chinese had their own doubts about canards.

The J-31, is modeled on the F-35 just like ADA's AMCA - medium weight and not very stealthy. However, the J-31 closely resembles the F-35, while the AMCA doesn't.

Indeed, there is a school of thought that China developed the J-31 using design files of F-35 stolen by hacking Lockheed computers.

No one doubts that like the LCA, the AMCA is a home grown solution.

A senior DRDO scientists associated with the AMCA project told me that the ADA team is proud that they made the right choice at a very early stage.

Likewise, the country is proud, I think. Wouldn't you agree?
ADA's AMCA Stealth Fighter: Some Canard?

 

[Kompromat]

Indian defense establishment thinks that the J-31 design was "hacked" from the F-35, Russians think its a very well done indigenous design. Grapes are sour indeed.

 

[Srinivas]

The whole thing with Canards is the engine thrust, Chinese J20 engines do not have enough thrust so canards.

 

[GR!FF!N]

Indian defense establishment thinks that the J-31 design was "hacked" from the F-35, Russians think its a very well done indigenous design. Grapes are sour indeed.

actually thats not words of Indian Defence Establishments,those were words of international defence experts..though i'm not underestimating capability of chinese aircraft makers and i think apart from structure,everything will be different and it'll make capability of these two aircrafts different.

Is China Copying American Aircraft? | Smoke & Stir

@topic..great development.but we should JV with countries like Russia or France to produce high performance engine for MCA else it'll stuck for years just like LCA.

 

[S-DUCT]

Indian defense establishment thinks that the J-31 design was "hacked" from the F-35, Russians think its a very well done indigenous design. Grapes are sour indeed.

There is no doubt about that J-31 and F-35 looks similar from outside,But it's wrong to say that they copied F-35.
Almost every 5th gen. fighter(except J-20) resembles to ATF fighters
PAK-FA Resembles YF-25.
AMCA Resembles YF-23.
..
There is nothing wrong on modifying existing proven design to tailor suite our own specific requirement.

 

[S-DUCT]

Care to explain? few J-31 pictures are out recently only whereas "AMCA" doing the rounds quite some time and even nobody knows the exact design.

We are talking about 5th Gen LO aircraft's, not any junks.



In fact there will be similarities in all LO designs.

Yep
1 thing is that all VLO & LO platforms must be edge matched.

 

[Norboo]

I'm confused! Is this thread concerning ADA's AMCA Stealth Fighter or the Chinese J-31 or J-20 or the F-35?

 

[SQ8]

I'm confused! Is this thread concerning ADA's AMCA Stealth Fighter or the Chinese J-31 or J-20 or the F-35?

Apparently your countrymen cant seem to appreciate their own aircraft without trashing another one in an almost genetic psychological need for appreciation through demeaning comparison.

 

[janon]

Apparently your countrymen cant seem to appreciate their own aircraft without trashing another one in an almost genetic psychological need for appreciation through demeaning comparison.

Blame the original article posted by the OP. Check out how many words are spent about the Chinese, and how many words about the AMCA itself. It's a common weakness of most defence journalists in India, that they write an article about an Indian program, and spend more time writing about the Chinese.

It's a sad fact that people in the subcontinent can only form a sense of "self" by comparing oneself to others. Pakistanis compare their country or society or armed forces' capabilities WRT India, Indians constantly compare themselves with Pakistan or China. We get a sense of identity by who we are not - not by who we are.

 

[SQ8]

Blame the original article posted by the OP. Check out how many words are spent about the Chinese, and how many words about the AMCA itself. Its a common weakness of most defence journalists in India, that they write an article about an Indian program, and spend more time writing about the Chinese.

The OP is also your countryman.. same womb...same result.... exceptions are abound but they are drowned by the bellowing of fools.

 

[janon]

The OP is also your countryman.. same womb...same result.

I was criticizing the article itself, not the poor OP who simply posted it here.

Anyway that tendency runs deeper, it's not just the posters on PDF - most of us in India form our identity on the basis of who we are not, not on the basis of who we are.

 

[SQ8]

I was criticizing the article itself, not the poor OP who simply posted it here.

Anyway that tendency runs deeper, it's not just the posters on PDF - most of us in India form our identity on the basis of who we are not, not on the basis of who we are.

Collective IQ is always lower than individual opinions.. mob mentality.. the need to fit in.. even if in their conscience.. their logic it would seem to a poster(India/Pakistan) that the other country has actually achieved something or is innocent, the need to return to the national mentality of rubbing it in or spewing hatred in return for your fellows scratching your scrotum forces flushing of good brains down the proverbial toilet bowl of self-value.
And the difference between men and rats.. disappears..

In the end.. It wont matter if the J-31 is a brilliant design or the AMCA a great leap..
the need to diss them far outweighs any worth of education or self-respect.

 

[Sinnerman108]

The whole thing with Canards is the engine thrust, Chinese J20 engines do not have enough thrust so canards.

WHAT the F do canards have to do with engine thrust ?

Canards are control surfaces, and that is that.

 

[SQ8]

WHAT the F do canards have to do with engine thrust ?

Canards are control surfaces, and that is that.

He has confused the overall design optimization for supersonic flight with the Canards..
The J-20 does seem optimized for easy transition into Supersonic flight and Supercruise..
The Canards provide extra control authority to that model..
How the engines figure in this Indian dissing attempt.. no idea.

 

[Ayush]

good development.