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About Colonel M N Rai, who died fighting militants in Jammu and Kashmir

You seriously need to visit here, if you think fanatics live here. I do not mean to disrespect but people like you who generalize every place and community are such a shame. I am living here for last 20 years and i did not see any kind of fanaticism ever, be it chowk, or any place. Ground realities are far more different than PDF realities.
When did I ever say they were fanatical in any way? We are ansaris, extremely liberal people. My mammoo was one of them and guess who killed him. Anyway. Our grandfather was revered by muslims and hindus alike. Hindus came there for him to pray duas on them. Furthermore he was a saint with his own mazaar which is also visited by hindus and muslims. He was one of the biggest supporters of Pakistan.

There is no fanaticism, there is just a movement for Pakistan and independent UP for muslims thats it. It does not mean the people will use violence to achieve their goals.
 
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When did I ever say they were fanatical in any way? We are ansaris, extremely liberal people. My mammoo was one of them and guess who killed him. Anyway. Our grandfather was revered by muslims and hindus alike. Hindus came there for him to pray duas on them. Furthermore he was a saint with his own mazaar which is also visited by hindus and muslims. He was one of the biggest supporters of Pakistan.

There is no fanaticism, there is just a movement for Pakistan and independent UP for muslims thats it. It does not mean the people will use violence to achieve their goals.
Independent UP for muslims? Dude you are twisting history. That is not what it was like, the movement was for bundelkhand by Bundeli Royals. and BTW, you do know that Ayodhya is right next to Lucknow. So it's kind of impossible to part UP from India.
 
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Dalbir looks like a troll up wearing that cap .....it seems a constable has been promoted to the rank of a General !
 
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Independent UP for muslims? Dude you are twisting history. That is not what it was like, the movement was for bundelkhand by Bundeli Royals.
What movement, by whom? I didn't even know about this!
 
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What movement, by whom? I didn't even know about this!
It's quite unheard of because it was more like on minute scale and also the incident predates National Independence movement in Gandhian leadership. There are some things you will not find in NCERT history books.
 
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It's quite unheard of because it was more like on minute scale and also the incident predates National Independence movement in Gandhian leadership. There are some things you will not find in NCERT history books.
Nice!
So can you give a link for it? Or tell it yourself ?
 
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Lol, I am a Pakistani as is every muslim born in UP and I am a proud Lucknowi Pakistani as is my mother and my father and my grand fathers who always stood by Pakistan. We are what we call ourselves and I am proud Pakistani despite the fact that both my parents were born in Lucknow. People don't move out of their houses until they see immense killing and brutal oppression remember that.

Also do note India is amalgamation of different nations and cultures. Historically Pala, Daramshala, Chandragupta, Cholas, Rajputs, Hindu Shahi all ruled parts of India not all of it. India in its current form was established only and only by the british to keep muslims weak.

In fact looking at history even Pakistan was separated from india by religion and rulership. Duranni empire ruled our entire western half. Sher Shah Suri ruled bengal and UP. I do not believe in a united India. It is an amalgamation of nations and everyone should claim his own identity, pretty much like the Azad Deccan Movement and Lucknowi independence movement which India has hidden so well very few even know of it.

As for muslims. Well in 1945 muslims in the general election and in 1946 muslims in the provincial election voted for Jinnah and his ideology of Pakistan. No muslim can deny this whether they are left in what later became India or not. Jinnah was so popular that 90%+ of UP muslims and 75% of all muslims left in there (both of what would be India and Pakistan) voted for it. You can ask any muslim about this reality, even some of the nationalist ones who I believe are confused will tell you this. Partition was a nehruvian and in some ways a Hindu failure because you guys failed to convince the muslims that in one country they would be equally treated.



The reality is our difference our slight. You don't have to believe ficiton, but only believe in the facts. India was a single entity that stretched from Afghanistan to Burma under Ashoka. I don't have to ask anyone. You need to question yourself, why did Muslims vote for Pakistan? Why did Jinnah suddenly make a U turn in his decision of an united India? The British have been stirring the pot since day one bro, yet you and your type ore oblivious to that version.

Akbar, a muslim, created an India that was very equal. The problem is not that we cannot do it, there are vested interests both domestic and foreign who do not wish to see its a reality.


Your historical facts are convenient because they pick where and when you wish.



Partition was a terrible event but remember there were atrocities committed on both sides. Even long before, there conflicts. South Asian Muslims are not arabs. They are pucca Indians with India blood, that includes the entire region.


I see you are able to note and realize the misdeeds and violence against Muslims, what about Hindu's at the hands of Muslims rulers? The injustice? You see Islam did enter India long before the Mughals and it was very peaceful. The Hindu rulers treated the Muslims wonderfully, protected them, etc in a land called Kerala. Learn your History.
 
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The reality is our difference our slight. You don't have to believe ficiton, but only believe in the facts. India was a single entity that stretched from Afghanistan to Burma under Ashoka. I don't have to ask anyone. You need to question yourself, why did Muslims vote for Pakistan? Why did Jinnah suddenly make a U turn in his decision of an united India? The British have been stirring the pot since day one bro, yet you and your type ore oblivious to that version.

The British only allowed us to have our own state which was Pakistan and it wasn't achieved with ease. Jinnah needed all his skill as a statesman and a lawyer to get muslims an independent homeland. And if it had been Mountbatten (viceroy) then we wouldn't even have gained that.

In fact the Pakistan we got was moth eaten and mutilated by the words of Jinnah himself. Jinnah stood for a united India rightly for some time. Even i believe Hindus and Muslims could live together as did Jinnah. However as it became clearer that we wouldn't get the rights we demanded (self governance for muslim majority provinces was one such demand-no ban on cow slaughter in muslim dominated states was another.) I would advise you to read Jaswant Singhs book on partition. His new book is a lot of chest beating but in the partition book he exposed Nehru's mishandling as it was what led to Pakistani independence and it is also possible he killed Gandhi.

As for the British in some places like Somalia they did even worse, giving parts of Somalia to Ethiopia and Kenya. But that is not to say they did very well. They could and should have stopped the partition massacres.

Akbar, a muslim, created an India that was very equal. The problem is not that we cannot do it, there are vested interests both domestic and foreign who do not wish to see its a reality.

Personally many many years ago I believed there is much we can learn from what later became India. I still strongly believe in secular and egalitarian society. What the world initially thought was that India would be an exemplar of this ideology. So I sought to learn a thing or two from Indians despite not believing in a united India myself.

But I was pretty let down. Indians are unhappy with the system they have, secularism is seen as a cause of division rather than assimilation and diversity. Also then there are cases of riots. Each minority community has suffered some sort of riots. You might go on and say Pakistan isn't ideal either and has done little for minorities but then what can an Islamic Republic do that benefits minorities anyway. I'd agree. But then we are going off topic.

Your historical facts are convenient because they pick where and when you wish.

No one told you to believe them.

Partition was a terrible event but remember there were atrocities committed on both sides. Even long before, there conflicts. South Asian Muslims are not arabs. They are pucca Indians with India blood, that includes the entire region.

No one called them arabs.

I see you are able to note and realize the misdeeds and violence against Muslims, what about Hindu's at the hands of Muslims rulers? The injustice? You see Islam did enter India long before the Mughals and it was very peaceful. The Hindu rulers treated the Muslims wonderfully, protected them, etc in a land called Kerala. Learn your History.

There are examples of beastiality, barbarism and oppression on each side. However India did nothing as a state to protect the muslim and give him (even if it was just an impression) that his interests and his life would be protected in a united India. This is a fact. Even now when I see all the Hindutva pride, ghar wapsi and suckularism and distaste for secular ideals thats what I think.
 
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PDP and BJP is going to form the Government in Jammu and Kashmir and this attack seems to be linked to that and even to the visit of President Obama. Hurriyat leaders seems want to show to the upcoming Government that they still hold cards in the valley but the case is different on the ground.
 
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Family members of late Col Munindra Nath Rai being console by Defence Minister Manohar Parikar as he came to meet at their home in New Delhi.
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