Abhijit Iyer Mitra Vs Ajai Shukla: Big Border Face-off Over Ladakh Standoff

[Aasimkhan]

Why do you sound so desperate?

i sound happy

 

[Joe Shearer]

i sound happy

I suppose next we will be told that even when you feel tearful, you sound the same.

 

[Soumitra]

Is this sarcasm or you really believe Feroze to be a Muslim? (He was a Parsi).

OK didn't know he was a Parsee. From his name I assumed he was Muslim still doesn't change the fact that Nehru opposed the love between Indira and Feroze and relented only when Mahatma Gandhi "adopted" him.

The current congressies have discarded him like last night's aam ki guthali.

 

[Naofumi]

Great Balls of Fire!!

Now it falls into place!!!

You poor sap, there was nothing - NOTHING - in common between the Arya Samaj and the Brahmo Samaj except the word Samaj!

They didn't start at the same place, so how could they take the same or even similar trajectories?

I'm sorry, this is like asking why the National Socialists in Germany and the Social Democrats in Sweden diverged. I don't have a month to explain.

Fair enough.

OK didn't know he was a Parsee. From his name I assumed he was Muslim still doesn't change the fact that Nehru opposed the love between Indira and Feroze and relented only when Mahatma Gandhi "adopted" him.

The current congressies have discarded him like last night's aam ki guthali.

LOL, even that is a fake story, Gandhi was his original surname meaning "trader of perfumes" - as you know Parsis are established traders themselves.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Fair enough.


LOL, even that is a fake story, Gandhi was his original surname meaning "trader of perfumes" - as you know Parsis are established traders themselves.

You aren't replying me. You are replying some idiot who has come out with the Indira married Feroze Khan story. The only idiot who could repeat that is on my ignore list, and now you know why. If you ask another hero on my ignore list, he, being a Parsi, will be able to tell you about Feroze Gandhi, and his entire family.

Unless that 'Fair enough' was for me and the rest was for Ivanhoe.

PS: You can tell that nincompoop, if my suspicions are correct, that I worked for Tata Steel when a Modi was the Managing Director, and soon after a Ghandy was. That Ghandy's son was then the MD of Telco. All three were Parsis.

You still don't think 'ignore' lists are a good idea?

 

[Cliftonite]

You aren't replying me. You are replying some idiot who has come out with the Indira married Feroze Khan story. The only idiot who could repeat that is on my ignore list, and now you know why. If you ask another hero on my ignore list, he, being a Parsi, will be able to tell you about Feroze Gandhi, and his entire family.

Unless that 'Fair enough' was for me and the rest was for Ivanhoe.

Our resident Parsi bawa is on your ignore list? Quelle surpise!

 

[Joe Shearer]

Our resident Parsi bawa is on your ignore list? Quelle surpise!

Quelle horreur!

@Cliftonite

I'm actually a bit taken aback at how deep you and @Naofumi go, with your questions and your speculations. Not entirely accurate, not all the time, but certainly enough to keep any normal person on his (or her) toes.

 

[Vasudhaika]

we too have our fringe elements, and Abhijit Iyer Mitra is firmly fringe element.

Peddayana, do you think just this Abhijit I M is fringe or IPCS as a unit is?

From my limited understanding, this guy is a gay, and he found a place where he'll not be discriminated based on his gender. It might surprise outsiders who'd want to look at Indian polity from western glasses but so called right conservative wing sangh doesn't discriminate based on whether you're M or F or L or G or B or T or Q etc. They don't want this LGBTQ phenomenon to be celebrated especially but, they won't discriminate, looks fair to me. OTOH, for so called left of India, this is not really a convenient place to be in. As leftist liberals are conventional umbrella holders for strong religious minorities in India and this LGBT thang doesn't go well with existing groups. This is just an example to oppose "white washing everyone either left or right" based on broad western understanding of these terms.

And coming to my post #1, around 4-5 years back, when I was searching on internet about some south asian history, google linked me with your post in here. I was never part (neither posting nor reading) of any defence forums let alone pdf. Your knowledge attracted me and I was following the forum particularly your posts from then on. Finally this lockdown made me register here and post my first today. Hope you don't mind me calling you peddayana , it is out of respect and also it acknowledges the fact that you're living along with me in Telugu land.

 

[Aaloo Tikki]

Abhijeet was factual while Col Saaheb were clueless. 5000 Chinese Soldiers, without knowing where are they. If IA has or had such kind of Colonel then only God can save India.

 

[Vasudhaika]

LOL, even that is a fake story, Gandhi was his original surname meaning "trader of perfumes" - as you know Parsis are established traders themselves.

Feroze being muslim is 'well known' sanghi propaganda served exclusively for ignorants. But looks like your story is incomplete too. As Joe subtly pointed out there's difference between 'Gandhi' and 'Ghandy'.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Peddayana, do you think just this Abhijit I M is fringe or IPCS as a unit is?

From my limited understanding, this guy is a gay, and he found a place where he'll not be discriminated based on his gender. It might surprise outsiders who'd want to look at Indian polity from western glasses but so called right conservative wing sangh doesn't discriminate based on whether you're M or F or L or G or B or T or Q etc. They don't want this LGBTQ phenomenon to be celebrated especially but, they won't discriminate, looks fair to me. OTOH, for so called left of India, this is not really a convenient place to be in. As leftist liberals are conventional umbrella holders for strong religious minorities in India and this LGBT thang doesn't go well with existing groups. This is just an example to oppose "white washing everyone either left or right" based on broad western understanding of these terms.

@jbgt90
@jamahir @xeuss @Naofumi @Shantanu_Left
@Syama Ayas @Chhatrapati @IMARV @MayaBazar

This is embarrassing, as I am opposed to homophobia, and I had hoped nobody would raise the subject of the man's orientation. What allows me the freedom to comment on your post is simply that you have put the matter in a context that is rational and is relevant to the question of the person's ideological orientation.

It is quite correct to say that the right wing conservatives are agnostic to sexual orientation, although that does not mean that they help to flatten the gross discrimination in India against diverse groups. But then, neither they nor the left wing have done anything to recognise and address Indian racism and racial bigotry. I have seen at close quarters how my African students were treated like inferior beings, ironically, in a milieu where I should have had the comfort that they would be completely protected by the racial openness of the minority religion that was a de facto majority there.

But to return to your argument, you are equally right in pointing to the automatic biases of the left, due, in part, to a feature that I would normally applaud; their secular outlook, but sadly, an outlook that finally results in over-compensation, to the extent .where the left feels it obligatory to do a Gandhi and pay obeisance to any regressive behaviour that the Muslim minority might adopt. The cases of Salman Rushdie and Taslima Nasreen - the latter a terrible instance of distortion of constitutional safeguards and blatant violation of human rights - come to mind when you use that argument.

Granted that your premises are correct (devastatingly so), what are your conclusions? Are you saying that AIM is mainstream? When I referred to him as fringe, I was broadbrushing the Sangh Parivar as fringe. Otherwise, taken in the context of that Sangh Parivar, he is very mainstream, if that is what you are hinting at. At least the bloody man checks his facts carefully.

My question to you: where do we go from here? Do you agree with his conclusions? Do you disagree?

And coming to my post #1, around 4-5 years back, when I was searching on internet about some south asian history, google linked me with your post in here. I was never part (neither posting nor reading) of any defence forums let alone pdf.

Welcome to PDF. Sadly, many promising new members have fallen by the wayside, and I wish you all the best. Be aware that you will be treated with circumspection at first, until your beliefs and values are clearer to all.

Your knowledge attracted me and I was following the forum particularly your posts from then on. Finally this lockdown made me register here and post my first today. Hope you don't mind me calling you peddayana , it is out of respect and also it acknowledges the fact that you're living along with me in Telugu land.

 

[Naofumi]

It is quite correct to say that the right wing conservatives are agnostic to sexual orientation

Abhijit himself has been targeted multiple times for being gay by 'trads' - a short term used for traditionalist.
Read this (biased) article for introduction though the author dismiss 'extreme trads' as 'fringe elements'
https://www.opindia.com/2019/10/ray...a-gentle-introduction-to-the-indian-non-left/

Feroze being muslim is 'well known' sanghi propaganda served exclusively for ignorants. But looks like your story is incomplete too. As Joe subtly pointed out there's difference between 'Gandhi' and 'Ghandy'.

His changing of the spelling was inspired by Gandhi that too much earlier from his marriage, thus I don't think it relates to him being 'adopted'.

PS : Abhijit is also a beef eater, thus easily a target of both your street Gow rakshaks and every sophisticated cow-lover Sanghi.

 

[jamahir]

This is embarrassing, as I am opposed to homophobia, and I had hoped nobody would raise the subject of the man's orientation. What allows me the freedom to comment on your post is simply that you have put the matter in a context that is rational and is relevant to the question of the person's ideological orientation.

Well, as long as the gays don't bother me directly, indirectly ( like promoting in society an androgynous physique model for women ) or commit rape, I am not offended by their presence in society.

It is quite correct to say that the right wing conservatives are agnostic to sexual orientation

Yes, there is the point that in India and Pakistan many of the conservatives have homosexual tendencies.

I have seen at close quarters how my African students were treated like inferior beings

I too have seen that once. A famous shopping street. Couple of Black African young women. Two Indian boys calling them "kaali, kaali" in an insulting manner.

ironically, in a milieu where I should have had the comfort that they would be completely protected by the racial openness of the minority religion that was a de facto majority there.

Good point.

But to return to your argument, you are equally right in pointing to the automatic biases of the left, due, in part, to a feature that I would normally applaud; their secular outlook, but sadly, an outlook that finally results in over-compensation, to the extent .where the left feels it obligatory to do a Gandhi and pay obeisance to any regressive behaviour that the Muslim minority might adopt.

Yes, that is one thing that a lot of the Left in India doesn't do compared to say the Left in some Muslim-majority societies does. Oppose the regressives among the Muslims in India.

---

@Vasudhaika, welcome to PDF.

 

[Naofumi]

Yes, there is the point that in India and Pakistan many of the conservatives have homosexual tendencies.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Indira Gandhi fell in love with Feroze Khan. Nehru was totally against this as Feroze was a Muslim. I guess he was also against love jihad. It was only when Mahatma Gandhi decided to "adopt" Feroze Khan and give him the name Gandhi did Nehru allowed his daughter to marry. There was also an additional pressure because Indira was pregnant.

Can you stop?

You're just embarrassing yourself. There is no such thing as 'Love Jihad'. This is just an imaginary concept invented by bigots to chastise a minority.