Abandoning status as "Islamic Republic"

[wxyz]

Pakistanis have to find what suits them.

In terms of the structure of their governance, societal norms, a specific 'ballpark' political ideology that is agreeable with most, from which most can derive stability and prosperity, are we capitalists? socialists, libertarians? etc. The role of religion is another key issue, clearly the status quo is not sustainable.

I do agree that Pakistan's underlying problems are far more complex than just, religious fundamentalism on it's own. but it's certainly a factor, the role given to religion in Pakistan currently, in my view is insane.

Religion is used like a dirty rag, cleaning cloth to cover wash away the blood caused by the war. It is used for personal and political gains, our community leaders are daft and despicable individuals. Anyone with a beard, a mosque and community behind him and a few memorized lines can gather followers to join at any cause.

I've seen secularism, both in the UK where it's in good balance, in places Switzerland, Scandinavia where it's a strong societal feature. Maybe we don't need to be like them, but we sure could learn a few things from them.

Anyway, it's 3 am here, I'll see where this thread gets to tomorrow.

Most intelligent post here

Maybe it is time to abandon our status as the "Islamic" "Republic" of Pakistan, and return to our secular roots which were planned by the fathers of the nation. Not a literal name change, but Pakistani people need to abandon the "Islamic Republic" ideology. Pakistan was created because Jinnah and co were afraid that in a Hindu dominated Country, there would always be episodes of violence and disagreement between the two chief religions, as Muslims of India had grown to become an almost different culture. Thus Pakistan was created so that the Muslims and Hindus can live in peace alone. Pakistan was created because the Muslim League felt the new "Hindus"tan would not be secular enough, not because it wouldn't be "Islamic" enough. Do we want to end up like the Middle East?

Also, it is embarrassing how many people believe in ridiculously stupid Jewish conspiracy theories, and hate Jews so much without having ever having seen one in their entire lives. Can a mature, mentally healthy human being actually believe such far fetched stories? Is this the result of one or two generations of cousin-cousin breeding? The reality is every year hundreds, if not thousands of non-Muslims are persecuted and harassed all along the country, but our sympathies are only for Palestine and non-existent dead Muslims in Burma and India. Isn't it ridiculous how people in Pakistan want women to "cover" themselves up, yet Google confirms the most number of pornographic searches are from Pakistan. Google also confirms that South Asia ranks the highest in bestiality searches.

Now people are going to be blame me for having such a negative view of my home country, but I am telling the truth, and even if the truth is not something that was told to us through biased text books. Media doesn't report such incidents because they are more focused on who Imran Khan wants to sleep with, and they don't have time for a family of murdered Ahmaids, Shias, Chrisitans, Hindus, etc. But of course it is all Mossad's, RAW's and CIA's fault, because they have so much time and resources to waste on us. (Well, RAW is an exception I guess. They all have the time in the world for their little Eastern Sibling)


P.S Removing it won't really affect the economical or the political situation. It would improve the social condition.

(NON PAKISTANIS KINDLY DON'T VOTE ON THE POLL)

Extremism in any form is detrimental be it in liberalism or conservatism. I do understand what you are saying and agree with the fundamental idea behind this. However, I believe the argument could have been presented in a better way....when presenting an idea - always be aware of the audience you are dealing with. It helps you present it in a way where you avoid loopholes.

 

[war&peace]

I think we should if not adopt secularism then sit and atleast talk about it. Discuss it. Allama Iqbal attributed the fall of the muslim ummah to the end of Ijtehad, a concept where scholars, intellectuals and governors sat together and discussed various topics. No one would assume his views to be superior to the others. They would start the topic with "Ï may be wrong"... now just imagine todays self righteous mullahs admitting ever they may be wrong. They thinbk they are caliphas and anyone disagreeing with them gets beaten up or death threats.

I agree with you about Ijtehad since many modern day issues need a scholarly work to address them. Though a little correction...IMHO what you are referring to is Ijma (where most of the scholars go through decision-making process in the light of the teachings of Holy Quran and Sunnah and arrive at unanimous or a majority decision about an issue where clear ruling is not available through the the first two (1) holy Quran (2) Sunnah. Unfortunately in Pakistan, intolerance and emotionalism is extremely high among the sections of the so called Mullahs and also equally among the so called liberal fascists. As far as, Ijtehad is concerned, it is fourth in the ladder of Islamic decree (1) Holy Quran (clear verses) (2) Authentic Hadith (3) Ijma (4) Ijttehad (5) Qiyas.
Ijttehad means arriving on a decision where the first three sources do not provide enough guidance but it can only be done by a scholar who has a deep knowledge of Quran and Sunnah in Arabic, Asul-al-fiqh and also the in-depth knowledge of the issue. For example, banking system, or halal/haram of the new products etc. And as we step down the ladder the mandate reduces i.e. Holy Quran decrees by holy Quran have the highest obligation and apply equally on all the Muslim while Qiyas is only temporary and for that individual only. I hope it may help. It is not final and be prone to mistakes so correct me if I'm wrong here. Allah knows the best.

 

[Apprentice]

Secularism means legislating by other than God's laws. One word: unacceptable.

Its not even open for debate.

Scholarly differences of opinion can be taken into account, but to look for a law outside the tradition of Islamic jurisprudence is completely unacceptable.

 

[Zibago]

Ye bechara to zaleel hii hogya hai

He represents the hypocrisy of our awaam

May Allah give you (hidayat) my brother i can see media and Internet doing their job excellently (the job of brainwashing people and making them secular,liberal and distant from islam.Brother its not islam thats destroying our country thats the result of staying away from islam).To much Internet and media is not good thats what ulama say in almost every speech and i can see in defence dot pk that people are getting stuck in the net of those satanists and cults.Brother how many people you see in your daily life are following the true track of islam.If they were the country would be a heaven on earth so don't blame Islam for your mistakes and destruction and have a positive and Muslim mindset.(peace ✌)


And where Muslims and non white people become victims of racism in their everyday routine

Lo ji ab internet aur media dhamako ka zimedaar hay and dont you speak of our hylocrite molvis they burn our nation tjemselves and call it a yahodi sazish

 

[Zibago]

Mery bhai ulama ka ihtiram karna chahiye un ka ilm ham se wasi hota hai or wo wahi bat karte hai jo islamic ho or agar is se intishar phele ya jo bhi ho hame hamara deen har cheez se pehle rakhna chahiye or is se mohabbat har cheez se barh kar karni chahiye

Respect is earned
Inteshar to wo phelatey hain jo choti si baat pay danda bardaar majma laga daitey hain

 

[Hell hound]

Mery bhai ulama ka ihtiram karna chahiye un ka ilm ham se wasi hota hai or wo wahi bat karte hai jo islamic ho or agar is se intishar phele ya jo bhi ho hame hamara deen har cheez se pehle rakhna chahiye or is se mohabbat har cheez se barh kar karni chahiye

yeah they surely are very knowledgeable they know that earth is flat, sun revolve around earth and moon landing was hoax.

 

[Zibago]

irony here is people living inextremly conservative co

yeah they surely are very knowledgeable they know that earth is flat, sun revolve around earth and moon landing was hoax.

Loadshedding is yahodi sazish ,pti is yahodi sazish,Ayesha Omar,s T shirt is a yahodi sazosh,tahir shah,s anjul is yahodi sazish,army targetting madrassas is yahodi sazish,everyone who speaks against them is yahodi sazish

 

[Hell hound]

Loadshedding is yahodi sazish ,pti is yahodi sazish,Ayesha Omar,s T shirt is a yahodi sazosh,tahir shah,s anjul is yahodi sazish,army targetting madrassas is yahodi sazish,everyone who speaks against them is yahodi sazish

nope bro anjul is combined effort of ameriki indian and yahodi agentd.cuz no nation alone can develop such weapon of mass destruction you need to team up for it.

 

[Zibago]

nope bro anjul is combined effort of ameriki indian and yahodi agent.cuz no nation alone can develop such weapon of mass destruction you need to team up for it.

The sazish of kufr is strong with this one
(▼皿▼)

 

[IceBreaker]

Please remember, Rome was NOT built in a day, it will take time to process and struggles, only depending on 200 million population, we should work hard to do something for our beloved country and eliminate terrorisms, I think we have woken up already.

Nothing to do with fancy title like Islamic Republic or anything.

Rome wasn't built in a day but its been more than 60 years since pakistan existed.
And I hope you know how days are there in 60 years.
In case you don't know thats 22,000 days.

 

[IceBreaker]

That won't solve anything...
Problem is not islam.
Problem is the molvies who are uneducated and don't know zhit about islam.
Spreading false beliefs.
And where do these suckers reside in. the madrissas.
The dumb govt should blow up all madrissas, and let the islamic and other teaching be taught by schools.

 

[Hell hound]

And thats in the quran if you don't believe it just go and look at it and if you still don't believe it may Allah show you the right path

so you believe all these thing even after all the proof you still think earth is flat or sun revolve around it.

That won't solve anything...
Problem is not islam.
Problem is the molvies who are uneducated and don't know zhit about islam.
Spreading false beliefs.
And where do these suckers reside in. the madrissas.
The dumb govt should blow up all madrissas, and let the islamic and other teaching be taught by schools.

this will snatch the legal power from mullahs like blasphemy laws and mazhabi vazarat.

 

[Hell hound]

Yup i will believe everything that my Allah and his quran and his prophet Muhammad (salalahu_alaih_e_wasalam) will tell me,thats what being a Muslim is you have to believe it even if its against your will and by the way are you a Muslim?if you are then please don't go against quran or you will be out of the islamic circle.

sir jee salute

 

[Solomon2]

Yup i will believe everything that my Allah and his quran and his prophet Muhammad (salalahu_alaih_e_wasalam) will tell me,thats what being a Muslim is you have to believe it even if its against your will -

How do you know how to understand the quran and hadiths correctly?

For example, these discuss Jews, Muslims, and Christians. How do you recognize each? If you go by what they call themselves then you concede that this power of self-definition does not rest in the Qu'ran and hadiths but in individuals and groups of humans. Meaning I can claim that the Jews discussed in the Qu'ran are different from my self-identification as a Jew so maybe none of its condemnations refer to me, yes?
Yet If you choose differently and go by their descriptions in these texts then you have to be sure to evaluate reality correctly to discern who is and isn't a Jew, Muslim, or Christian. Which means you have to admit reality publicly rather than rest upon lies to define this or that group. And if the preponderance of evidence and Qu'ran and hadiths points to today's Muslims acting like the Jews of the Qu'ran, while the Zionists of today possess the virtues praised by Mohammed, then what are you supposed to do?

I don't think these questions were unknown to Jinnah. That's one of the reasons why he didn't want Pakistan to become an "Islamic" state but a state for Muslims. Once away from the cultural pressure of majority Hindus, maybe then Muslims could work things out. But Jinnah passed too soon and his political successors took the easiest path to maintaining their political power and (often ill-gotten) wealth. Hence the tragedies of Pakstan's wars and religious and racial persecutions.

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

Pakistan is islamic republic and who ever is trying to change its ideology is not Pakistani.. u have right to differ but u have no right to force ur openion..ur option shows in openion poll and ur rating in it tht its just an effort to get positive rating..just like a cheap popularity of mira..
I suggest u to read more of Pakistani books and live with people in Pakistan other than reading indian web sites..