A warning to people sitting in power circles in Pakistan.

[blueazure]

Basically this is self explanatory.
How our people are living, how they are approached by foreigners, and then one day, we kill them.
Only 3 kind of people can pull Pakistan out of this state of weakness.

1) Education related people and institutions
2) Law enforcement and Judiciary
3) Planners.

I am at a point of my life that I have had enough, and this is my utter believe that people of Pakistan, the people who really can make a difference, are prejudiced to core, shortsighted and are not ready to change their ways.
Anyway, I have left reading Pakistani newspapers and watching TV. I feel like a dead guy now, as far as the internal affairs of Pakistan are concerned.
If we will not plan for our future, somebody will. Enjoy the "constructive" documentary.

the way things are, im looking at violent street agitations and a move to a 'socialist' type government in pakistan

1. debt, out of control

2. inflation. 8 percent

3. circular debt . 2000 BN

4. 1.5 million professionals out of work

5. no law and order

6. rapists and child killers on loose. courts are bananas in pakistan

7. health, literacy. LOL


the govt., essentially bankrupt and living of the begging bowl thanks to IMF is working ferociously to make pakistan a communist state where every thing will be state property to fund the inefficient and corrupt govt machinery

the richest, top 1% control nearly 60% of this nation's wealth . !


every decent and hardworking person i know is planning to leave

 

[crankthatskunk]

Net worth is irrelevant in annual income tax calculations.

You need to look at what he is earning annually, i.e. Gross Income for tax purposes. What is he actually making from the assets he owns.

I have some land in Pakistan that has tripled in value over years and I pay zero tax as I have no income generation from any of my assets in Pakistan.

If government started charging land tax then everyone would start crying. Do you want that zakat on gold type taxes imposed on land?

I would like to see Capital Tax Gains on Land sales though! But with factoring in calculations. That will stop the files and short sales.

Pakistanis would not understand. Lack of education and understanding, plus Pakistani media, they can turn any subject or figures to suit their needs and mislead people.

Two three days ago, in one of my posts, I have explained how the Income Tax for any given year is calculated. Imran or anyone not paying enough tax should not be a worry. As long as their life styles match with their declared income. Or they can show that they have maintained their life styles from sales proceeds of their assets. In that case like we do in the UK, there should be tax on profit on sale of assets. Only your principle residential property where you reside should be exempted from Capital Gain Tax.

The problem is with people like Nawaz, Shahbaz, their extended families, Zardari, Bilawal Bhutto and their extended families. How they are maintaining their life styles. Imran on the other hand lives relatively simple life style. You will hear frequently from Pakistani journalists that you don't even get a cup of tea from Imran. His cloths are very simple. He doesn't have army of servants like others. All these things should be factors in determining if someone is living beyond their declared means.

For example, if you look at the declared annual income, I definitely for years had been more richer than Nawaz, Shahbaz and Zardari.

Am I!! Off course not.

For example, family Sharif travel several times between Pakistan and UK in first/business class. I have not been to Pakistan for 11 years now. Don't have time for holidays, because I have to work very hard to earn my living.

The question is when these families cannot even justify their air travel in any given year from their declared income, how they are allowed to flourish and take over Pakistan!!

Pakistanis just do not understand simple logic due to lack of education.

In my early academic years, I was educated and trained in financial matters, and used to deal with Inland Revenue for clients. I know exactly how UK tax authorities catches people. And they end up coughing the taxes. People everywhere don't want to pay taxes, it is government's job to have enough taxation laws, checks and balances, plus powers and will to deal with those who avoid paying taxes or commit fraud and tax evasion.

 

[batmannow]

the way things are, im looking at violent street agitations and a move to a 'socialist' type government in pakistan

1. debt, out of control

2. inflation. 8 percent

3. circular debt . 2000 BN

4. 1.5 million professionals out of work

5. no law and order

6. rapists and child killers on loose. courts are bananas in pakistan

7. health, literacy. LOL


the govt., essentially bankrupt and living of the begging bowl thanks to IMF is working ferociously to make pakistan a communist state where every thing will be state property to fund the inefficient and corrupt govt machinery

the richest, top 1% control nearly 60% of this nation's wealth . !


every decent and hardworking person i know is planning to leave

Just let me know, when that rapist ABID gets caught?
Doesnt it makes funny, how good this govt is?

 

[batmannow]

Pakistanis would not understand. Lack of education and understanding, plus Pakistani media, they can turn any subject or figures to suit their needs and mislead people.

Two three days ago, in one of my posts, I have explained how the Income Tax for any given year is calculated. Imran or anyone not paying enough tax should not be a worry. As long as their life styles match with their declared income. Or they can show that they have maintained their life styles from sales proceeds of their assets. In that case like we do in the UK, there should be tax on profit on sale of assets. Only your principle residential property where you reside should be exempted from Capital Gain Tax.

The problem is with people like Nawaz, Shahbaz, their extended families, Zardari, Bilawal Bhutto and their extended families. How they are maintaining their life styles. Imran on the other hand lives relatively simple life style. You will hear frequently from Pakistani journalists that you don't even get a cup of tea from Imran. His cloths are very simple. He doesn't have army of servants like others. All these things should be factors in determining if someone is living beyond their declared means.

For example, if you look at the declared annual income, I definitely for years had been more richer than Nawaz, Shahbaz and Zardari.

Am I!! Off course not.

For example, family Sharif travel several times between Pakistan and UK in first/business class. I have not been to Pakistan for 11 years now. Don't have time for holidays, because I have to work very hard to earn my living.

The question is when these families cannot even justify their air travel in any given year from their declared income, how they are allowed to flourish and take over Pakistan!!

Pakistanis just do not understand simple logic due to lack of education.

In my early academic years, I was educated and trained in financial matters, and used to deal with Inland Revenue for clients. I know exactly how UK tax authorities catches people. And they end up coughing the taxes. People everywhere don't want to pay taxes, it is government's job to have enough taxation laws, checks and balances, plus powers and will to deal with those who avoid paying taxes or commit fraud and tax evasion.

Problem is, it's just not only Nawaz, zaradaris who became super rich, there are many others with thier millions of dollors super rich papajones owners do exists!

 

[AZ1]

During the Altaf Hussain times, we paid EVEN MORE BECAUSE OF THE "BHATTA MONEY"
They would snatch your bakra Eid animal skin on eid ul azha

I as a STUDENT escaped because I came LATE to the class But my friends got caught and paid Rs 100 / each even as STUDENTS.

That's a lie. I have been living in karachi my entire life not a single time mqm grab bakra skin from us or i paid 100 because i came late must be some guys making you fool in name of mqm

 

[Nasr]

Basically this is self explanatory.
How our people are living, how they are approached by foreigners, and then one day, we kill them.
Only 3 kind of people can pull Pakistan out of this state of weakness.

1) Education related people and institutions
2) Law enforcement and Judiciary
3) Planners.

I am at a point of my life that I have had enough, and this is my utter believe that people of Pakistan, the people who really can make a difference, are prejudiced to core, shortsighted and are not ready to change their ways.
Anyway, I have left reading Pakistani newspapers and watching TV. I feel like a dead guy now, as far as the internal affairs of Pakistan are concerned.
If we will not plan for our future, somebody will. Enjoy the "constructive" documentary.

To add to what you said .... the people of Pakistan can only prevail against the forces of evil (traitors in our midst), with Islam and by genuinely following the Sunnah of Nabi Muhammad Alaihi Salaat-u-Wassalam. Without Islam, Pakistan would seize to exist. And that, my dearest countrymen, is the most ominous warnings of all!

 

[313ghazi]

I urge you all to read the history of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and look at the trials and tribulations he faced. Remember the challenges faced by Yunus (AS), those faced by Yusuf (AS), or Yaqub (AS). Ibrahim (AS) stood in burning fire for his faith in Allah, he gave the sacrifice of his son with his own hands to obey the command of Allah.

These are people who Allah loves beyond all people - those who he chose to send his message, yet he tested them in ways we could not possibly endure.

Compare that to what we face. Have faith, he is the Giver, he is limitless in his bounty. We all have moments where we lament our lot, after a bad day, or after losing out - but in reality if we count what he has given us, we cannot be thankful enough even if we spent every moment till Qiyamat in prayer.

Our forefathers sacrificed their lives, their wealth, their homes, opportunity, ancestory - everything to create a nation in the name of Allah, for the people of Allah. They were blessed to face that challenge for his sake and to pass it in honour. To keep that nation on the truth path, to fight all this evil - this is Allahs blessing on us. This is his challenge to us, to prove our faith, our dedication to him, through service to his people and the nation our forefathers created in his name.

Relish the challenge, accept his gift. Who can stand against us when He stands with us.

 

[Nasr]

There is a quote of Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah, "There is no power on earth that can undo Pakistan." Do you all remember this quote? I bet those who really love Pakistan, do remember those golden words. So in this context, I ask you all, my countrymen, this question, "what do you (Pakistanis) think Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah meant, when he said those words? Surely we have all witnessed or at least read about the 1971 war, in our life time. Do you ever ask yourselves on what grounds did Quaid-e-Azam said these words with such confidence and surety?

Well my dear countrymen, here is an eye opener for you (when you succeed in waking up your soul, and with it, the eyes of your soul). Quaid-e-Azam fought for a Pakistan, based on a country for Musalmaan! He firmly believed that the Pakistan he fought for, it's people, who are Musalmaan, shall stand firm on the Sunnah of Nabi Muhammad Alaihi Salaat-u-Wassalam and will emerse the Holy Qur'an (the word of Allah) in their being. An open declaration was made, for both kuffar and munafiqs, "to fear the firaasah of a Mu'min" for a Mu'min is impervious to threats, to intimindation and most of all the deception of evil.

When you fear Allah Subhanahu Wata'aalah, you fear nothing else in this world. You have clarity of mind, you have pin point accuracy on where and from whom the deception will come from. Even when the host of the threat isn't aware of it. You will be fearless in the face of all odds and adversity. Victory for a Mu'min, is when he/she knows that you have pleased Allah Subhanahu Wata'aalah. The first step in graduating from a Musalmaan to a Mu'min, is to follow the Sunnah of Nabi Muhammad Alaihi Salaat-u-Wassalam, with strict conformity of the Holy Qur'an. The two are your primary and only form of defensive and offensive strategy. These two will give you power, knowledge and speed unlike you've ever imagined.

It based on this fact, that when Pakistanis follow the Sunnah of Nabi Muhammad Alaihi Salaat-u-Wassalam and use it to delve into the Holy Qur'an to receive Hikmah and Firaasah from Allah Subhanahu Wata'aalah. Remember who you are, the Ummi of Nabi Muhammad Alaihi Salaat-u-Wassalam, whom Allah Subhanahu Wata'aalah loves immensely. We Pakistanis should count ourselves as being extremely fortunate to be born or reverted back to the Ummah of Nabi Muhammad Alaihi Salaat-u-Wassalam. For when you do, my fellow Pakistanis, then surely with the Grace and Mercy of Allah Subhanahu Wata'aalah, there shall be no power on earth that could undo Pakistan, in-sha-ALLAH!!!

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I urge you all to read the history of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and look at the trials and tribulations he faced. Remember the challenges faced by Yunus (AS), those faced by Yusuf (AS), or Yaqub (AS). Ibrahim (AS) stood in burning fire for his faith in Allah, he gave the sacrifice of his son with his own hands to obey the command of Allah.

These are people who Allah loves beyond all people - those who he chose to send his message, yet he tested them in ways we could not possibly endure.

Compare that to what we face. Have faith, he is the Giver, he is limitless in his bounty. We all have moments where we lament our lot, after a bad day, or after losing out - but in reality if we count what he has given us, we cannot be thankful enough even if we spent every moment till Qiyamat in prayer.

Our forefathers sacrificed their lives, their wealth, their homes, opportunity, ancestory - everything to create a nation in the name of Allah, for the people of Allah. They were blessed to face that challenge for his sake and to pass it in honour. To keep that nation on the truth path, to fight all this evil - this is Allahs blessing on us. This is his challenge to us, to prove our faith, our dedication to him, through service to his people and the nation our forefathers created in his name.

Relish the challenge, accept his gift. Who can stand against us when He stands with us.

Jazak Allahu khairan. I admire your positivity brother.

We have all seen the negative effects of hopelessness and depression on our society. Whenever we become like this, opportunistic snakes come out from every crack to take advantage of our misery and misfortune.

We need to rise above this. Having hope in the best and being optimistic is actually part and parcel of iman. We just have to trust Allah swt.

 

[Meengla]

es, many of the corrupt cronies which came afterwards, like Nawaz, were nurtured by Gen Zia, but he did much to unite the nation and Islamization was largely successful in rooting out many of the diseases of society.

Most of all, his strong actions in Afghanistan are paying us back dividends even today.

He saved Pakistan from Soviet invasion and destruction, that would have been catastrophic.

Contrary to what you said, I see him becoming more popular among Pakistanis today then ever before.

This has to be a joke?!!
Unite the nation? Under him, there were more ethnic divisions than ever before. The guy embraced an open secessionist like G. M. Sayyad just to counter the PPP in rural Sindh and probably also actively supported the rise of MQM. The consequences of his Divide and Rule policies are still damaging to Pakistan.

Afghanistan?? Pakistan had a security umbrella from most of the world against any Soviet invasion. The Soviets were reluctant invaders to begin with and had no intention of provoking Washington's redlines by invading Pakistan.

And his Islamisation?? He introduced hypocrisy and extremism in the name of Islam. Words like 'Wahabbi' were rare spoken before him. After him, a whole generation, indoctrinated to fight the 'Jihad' against the Soviets, wreaked havoc in Pakistan.

And one more crime he committed: He allowed the gun toting, drug dealing Afghan refugees to spread throughout Pakistan with catastrophic consequences for the K-P province and Karachi.

As to his popularity?? The guy ruled as an absolute leader for a full 4th of Pakistan's history and yet year after year he's cursed. Those of us who saw Pakistan's descent under him know all too well what he did against Pakistan and there are hardly any political scientists left in Pakistan who does't curse him. Heck, EVEN Nawaz Sharif eventually disowned Zia ul Haq!

Some Pakistanis--especially the expats--live in such such a La La Land. If they had only seen what Pakistan was before and after Zia then they would have understood the damage he caused to Pakistan.

Having said all this--I have never blamed Zia for corruption or for being unpatriotic. Pakistan's economy was not bad under him. He was just a Proto Taliban who destroyed Pakistan due to his cynical and myopic policies.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

This has to be a joke?!!
Unite the nation? Under him, there were more ethnic divisions than ever before. The guy embraced an open secessionist like G. M. Sayyad just to counter the PPP in rural Sindh and probably also actively supported the rise of MQM. The consequences of his Divide and Rule policies are still damaging to Pakistan.

Afghanistan?? Pakistan had a security umbrella from most of the world against any Soviet invasion. The Soviets were reluctant invaders to begin with and had no intention of provoking Washington's redlines by invading Pakistan.

And his Islamisation?? He introduced hypocrisy and extremism in the name of Islam. Words like 'Wahabbi' were rare spoken before him. After him, a whole generation, indoctrinated to fight the 'Jihad' against the Soviets, wreaked havoc in Pakistan.

And one more crime he committed: He allowed the gun toting, drug dealing Afghan refugees to spread throughout Pakistan with catastrophic consequences for the K-P province and Karachi.

As to his popularity?? The guy ruled as an absolute leader for a full 4th of Pakistan's history and yet year after year he's cursed. Those of us who saw Pakistan's descent under him know all too well what he did against Pakistan and there are hardly any political scientists left in Pakistan who does't curse him. Heck, EVEN Nawaz Sharif eventually disowned Zia ul Haq!

Some Pakistanis--especially the expats--live in such such a La La Land. If they had only seen what Pakistan was before and after Zia then they would have understood the damage he caused to Pakistan.

Having said all this--I have never blamed Zia for corruption or for being unpatriotic. Pakistan's economy was not bad under him. He was just a Proto Taliban who destroyed Pakistan due to his cynical and myopic policies.

I disagree with many things you wrote, but these are ideological differences.

What I want to ask you is this, was Bhutto any better?

 

[crankthatskunk]

Problem is, it's just not only Nawaz, zaradaris who became super rich, there are many others with thier millions of dollors super rich papajones owners do exists!

If you are pointing to other Pakistanis who lives beyond their declared incomes and means, I agree with you.
If you are trying to point to General Asim Bajwa. I have plenty of reservations about the simplistic approach taken by Pakistanis that too on the behest of the usual suspect in Pakistani media.

Like I said in earlier post, I have gone through 4 years rigorous training in detection of fraud. Because of the training, I can smell the fishy smell in financial records from miles.
With the same token, you have to look at the whole of the evidence , analyse it then come to the conclusion.
In General Asim Bajwa's case there are lots of problems for the detectors. It is not as simple as it makes out to be.
Noorani is neither educated enough or trained enough in financial matters to make a judgement. Therefore, what Pakistani journalists say should be taken with health warnings. I find them childish to be honest.
Bajawa and his family would have lots of defences and documents to prove the detectors wrong.
For simple reasons they are doing business in the USA, where it would be difficult to do money laundering for them.

I give you few current examples for my own experience to demonstrate how things are monitored in the UK.
Two months ago I help my young daughter to buy a house , I contributed to her deposit and legal and other costs.
I have to provide the legal declaration that I am gifting the money to her. I have to show proofs of my sources of income. Show 6 months of bank statements and sources of funds. If it is savings, you have to provide proofs of it over time.

Similarly, I am buying a Commercial Property with partial loan from a bank. I have to provide so much documentations and proofs of my own money that you wouldn't believe it.

Take current example of Altaf. The UK authorities, despite leaving him alone for two decades, for their own motives, now are tightening the noose around him. He would be in deep trouble, either he pays or go to jail. During my earlier years, I have seen many clever cookies going down that line, either coughing millions in taxes, late penalties, interests and fines or going to jail.

 

[Psychic]

Karachi hates PPP but is stuck with them because interior sindh votes them in. Islamabad refuses to separate Karachi or punish PPP for its corruption or bribery. Hell, even the CM of Punjab gets away with paying 0rs in taxes. While Karachi pays the most tax in Pakistan.

This is how you start a separatist movement, when the whole country is incompetent and neglects you. Especially when said country relies on you but not the other way around. Still everyone sitting in Islamabad wonders why its so easy to recruit anti state elements from Karachi.

Lets suppose Islamabad decides to take Karachi as federal area separate from Sindh. In order to do that, first, you need to amend the constitution. The govt is not only weak in the centre but in minority in the senate as well. Any bill passed in the National Assembly can be rejected in the senate as the opposition is in majority there. That will be the very first obstacle which needs to be overcome.

Suppose that happens then what next?
The democratically elected wadera sarkar will start threatening to break away from the country for starters. JSQM and Sindhudesh will get a new life, lefties will exploit the situation and we will be facing a Dhaka version 2.0. This is Pakistan where democratically elected ethno nationalists who enjoy the support of the masses openly threaten to break away from the country on as small an issue as construction of a dam and here you are advocating for taking away a chunk of land which they control.

This is not the 80s where a strongman ruled the state with iron fist. This is democracy where nothing gets done without saying ke "hum sab ko saath le kar chalen gai". Noonies and Peepees are already threatening a long march. At most, may be a package for Karachi which will go straight into the hands of the Sindh sarkar.

The OP declared that the poor people are the victims in poor provinces but is that really the case? These serfs who are treated like cattle by their waderas are the source of power of these same people. These people support the waderas, sardars and jageerdars who not only exploit them but are also dragging the whole country down with them.

The OP posted a video of a Baloch person. Here is what a Baloch sardar who is also supported by his poor serfs said: " Agar sarak ban gai toh Punjabi fauj aa jaye gi". He said this while claiming to be a defender of poor Baloch people's rights --- rights which he claimed were being snatched by the evil Punjabis whilst he kept his serfs uneducated and deprived since poor hungry people are easy to control. The state is powerless against such characters because if something happened to that sardar then everyone including the media and professors would jump in and declare him a shaheed and start giving credibility to naraz bhais and apnay bachay.

 

[Psychic]

This has to be a joke?!!
Unite the nation? Under him, there were more ethnic divisions than ever before. The guy embraced an open secessionist like G. M. Sayyad just to counter the PPP in rural Sindh and probably also actively supported the rise of MQM. The consequences of his Divide and Rule policies are still damaging to Pakistan.

Afghanistan?? Pakistan had a security umbrella from most of the world against any Soviet invasion. The Soviets were reluctant invaders to begin with and had no intention of provoking Washington's redlines by invading Pakistan.

And his Islamisation?? He introduced hypocrisy and extremism in the name of Islam. Words like 'Wahabbi' were rare spoken before him. After him, a whole generation, indoctrinated to fight the 'Jihad' against the Soviets, wreaked havoc in Pakistan.

And one more crime he committed: He allowed the gun toting, drug dealing Afghan refugees to spread throughout Pakistan with catastrophic consequences for the K-P province and Karachi.

As to his popularity?? The guy ruled as an absolute leader for a full 4th of Pakistan's history and yet year after year he's cursed. Those of us who saw Pakistan's descent under him know all too well what he did against Pakistan and there are hardly any political scientists left in Pakistan who does't curse him. Heck, EVEN Nawaz Sharif eventually disowned Zia ul Haq!

Some Pakistanis--especially the expats--live in such such a La La Land. If they had only seen what Pakistan was before and after Zia then they would have understood the damage he caused to Pakistan.

Having said all this--I have never blamed Zia for corruption or for being unpatriotic. Pakistan's economy was not bad under him. He was just a Proto Taliban who destroyed Pakistan due to his cynical and myopic policies.

Factually, the real destruction was caused by secular roshan khayal enlightened moderate his highness General Pervez Musharraf. Zia is THE fall guy. Most of the violence occurred post 9/11 (fact). It was a reaction to us bombing our own people at the behest of America. Even for a secular, that should have remained as someone else's war but they choose to side with their ideological partner(America) instead. Not to forget that Musharraf's mishandling of Bugti and Lal masjid proved that he is an idiot of the third degree who does not understand his people at all. That is from where a fire started in Pakistan the heat of which can still be felt.

Policy wise, Bhutto would have adopted the same policy which Zia adopted vis a vis Afghan war. Hekmetyar and Massud were brought over and trained on Bhutto's express orders; Pakistan was involved knee deep in Afghanistan's rebellion before he got the noose. People also said that the yanks will come from the seas and the yellows will pour down the Himalayas to save Dhaka but none of that evre happened. Maulana Bhutto Rehmatullah aleh also played a major part in Islamization; infact he was the prime enabler of Islamization (which was a good thing in my opinion as I am not a kemalist) . That is bound to happen when you sell the manjan of an Islamic Pakistan among the masses to get independence in 1947 and then do a 180 degree. Bhutto's iron handed tactics in Balochistan resulted in an endless insurgency which Zia wisely ended. His political murders are also forgotten by the media. The media paints an all rosy picture of Bhutto and all black picture of Zia that is why the latter is cursed because people do not do their own research and fall for phrases like Shaheed e jamhuriat, Bhutto zinda hay and democracy is best revenge. The only difference in lifestyle was felt among the elite who went to bars and balls. The lifestyle of the average Pakistani remained the same.

 

[Meengla]

I disagree with many things you wrote, but these are ideological differences.

What I want to ask you is this, was Bhutto any better?

We will get side tracked here and I think in some other thread we can discuss who was who.
But to answer your question, yes, Bhutto was a far more capable leader than Zia ul Haq could ever be. I am very aware of Bhutto's flaws but people of Pakistan still remember him despite his flaws starting from his achievements in the Ayub Khan era and into the 1970s.

Suffice to say: Bhutto ruled for only 5 odd years after taken over the reign of a fallen Pakistan while Zia ruled for 11 years with absolute power. If the Pakistani people still hold a more fond opinion of him compared with Zia then there is no 'they' who have helped form that opinion: It is a spontaneous democratic reading of historical figures. In the end, people are NOT FOOLS or blind sheep. Respect their opinion.
But..we can touch base on this in some other thread.