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A US Navy With Only 8 Carriers?

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The aircraft carriers Dwight D. Eisenhower, George H.W. Bush, Enterprise, Harry S. Truman and Abraham Lincoln in Norfolk, Va., in December. Truman, along with the George Washington and John C. Stennis, are likely candidates for decommissioning if the most drastic of Pentagon cutting options is put into place. (US Navy)

bilde


WASHINGTON — At first, the statement is shocking. “Reduce the number of carrier strike groups from 11 to 8 or 9, draw down the Marine Corps from 182,000 to between 150,000 and 175,000.”

But those words July 31 from US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel brought into the open some of the behind-the-scenes discussions that have been going on at the Pentagon for months. Senior Defense Department officials continue to stress no decisions have been made out of the Strategic Choices and Management Review (SCMR), but the everything-is-on-the-table nature of the discussions is becoming clearer.

Or is it? Beyond top-line statements, hardly any real details were released, leaving those outside the inner circles to speculate on the immediate and far-reaching effects of sequestration. One reason, many observers feel, is that talking about a specific potential cut could turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy. Even acknowledging that an eight-carrier fleet is on the table, some fear, could turn that once-unthinkable idea into a reality.

And it’s not just about cutting carriers — it’s air wings with seven or so squadrons of aircraft, it’s a cruiser and three or four destroyers, and it’s the crews. Substantial savings would be found from reducing nearly 10,000 personnel billets with the elimination of each strike group.

Reducing the air wings would ease carrier acquisition, maintenance and recapitalization. The fleet of legacy F/A-18 Hornet aircraft – mostly C models — could be swiftly retired, leaving an all-Super Hornet fleet of Es and Fs that itself could be smaller than what exists today. Retirement of older SH-60 helicopters could also be accelerated.

Dropping the carrier fleet could be done several ways. Two or three ships could simply be ordered to go — likely the oldest ships that have not undergone a refueling overhaul. The older Nimitz-class ships — Nimitz, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Carl Vinson and Theodore Roosevelt — are likely safe, having completed their reactor refueling. Abraham Lincoln, which has just begun its overhaul at Huntington Ingalls Industries (HII) Newport News Shipbuilding in Newport News, Va., is likely safe, as the three-year effort has already been largely paid for. But the George Washington, set to begin its refueling overhaul in 2015, would likely go, along with the John C. Stennis and possibly the Harry S. Truman.

Spreading out the current five-year carrier building schedule is dangerous, and could actually lead to increased costs that would cancel out any savings. Significant portions of the carrier supply base are barely sustainable under the current schedule, and some suppliers can be expected to go out of business should the building time be stretched any further. Newport News, faced with the loss of the refueling overhauls and a longer building time, would be forced to lay off several thousand workers, again increasing costs for new ships.

Carriers also have a significant disposal cost. The eight-reactor Enterprise, now in the early stages of a multiyear disposal process, will likely cost more than $1.1 billion to ultimately dispose of. Nimitz-class carriers have only two reactors and could cost less to dispose of, but the bill still will be significant and, with inflation, would likely exceed the Big E’s cost.

Even laying up the carriers in mothballs will entail major costs. Reactors, once shut down for a significant time, cannot be restarted due to changes in their metallurgy, so the ships cannot be completely shut down and maintained in reserve.

Rather, the reactors would be set to a minimum level and the ships kept at a secure facility, like an active naval base. The Navy already has a significant backlog of seven decommissioned conventional carriers to get rid of, and the nukes would likely sit for some years before actually going away.

Fate of the Warships
The Navy’s 22 remaining Aegis cruisers are on the back-half of their projected 30-35 year careers, and the service already is trying to decommission seven.

The first Arleigh Burke-class destroyer entered service in 1991, and the Aegis ships are still being built. Complicating the decision about which ships would be cut are expensive modernization upgrades to the older ships, most of which have already received a ballistic-missile defense (BMD) capability — a key requirement among most regional combatant commanders.

For littoral combat ships, contract options to build them run through LCS 24, and the Navy is considering how to approach the rest of the planned 52-ship force. Options include eliminating one of the two LCS variants or ending the program at 24.

Cutting the Navy Department means cutting the Marine Corps, which inevitably leads to fewer amphibious ships. While the Navy seeks a 10 or 11-ship big-deck amphibious force, nine are in service today. Peleliu, the oldest assault ship, already is to be replaced by the new America. A reduction to eight big decks would likely mean the Wasp — about to begin a sorely-needed $110 million modernization overhaul — would be decommissioned.

Construction of the eleventh and last of the highly capable LPD 17 San Antonio class of amphibious transport docks has begun at HII’s Ingalls shipyard in Pascagoula, Miss., and the ships are nearly as effective as the bigger assault ships, so they would likely survive.

But the older dock landing ships of the Whidbey Island class would be on the chopping block — as would be their LSD(X) replacement.

Submarines
Pentagon support for the nuclear attack submarine force seems to be stronger than ever, and the number of SSNs is not likely to diminish. But the Navy’s desire to incorporate a Virginia Payload Module (VPM) with four large weapon tubes into Block V Virginia-class ships is threatened. Each VPM would add about $350 million to the cost of each sub, but without the modifications the four SSGN guided-missile submarines will retire in the 2020s without a replacement.

Also to be decided is the fate of the Ohio-class replacement submarine, a major acquisition effort sitting squarely in the middle of future shipbuilding budgets. The first ship isn’t scheduled to be ordered until 2021, but development costs are significant.

Future modernization programs also are at significant risk under the various SCMR options. The Air Missile Defense Radar (AMDR) to be installed in an Arleigh Burke Flight III version beginning in 2016 is threatened and could be delayed, despite urgent requirements for the BMD mission.

As for infrastructure, a fleet that would drop below 250 or 230 ships would also need fewer bases or support facilities. With the shift to the Pacific, whereby 60 percent of the fleet will be Pacific-based, several facilities could close. Targets would likely include the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard in Kittery, Maine, and Mayport Naval Station in Florida, as well as lesser facilities.

The shipbuilding industry could shift as well. The most striking change could be a joining of the two biggest shipbuilders, HII and General Dynamics. Such a move would probably mean the closure of one or two of the five major yards operated by the two companies. The upshot would mean less competition for Navy contracts, something the service would not welcome.

A US Navy With Only 8 Carriers? | Defense News | defensenews.com
 
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The Navy already has a significant backlog of seven decommissioned conventional carriers to get rid of, and the nukes would likely sit for some years before actually going away.

The Naval Sea Systems Command's Inactive Ships Management Office (INACTSHIPOFF) is based in Portsmouth, Virginia.[1]
There are NISMFs (Naval Inactive Ship Maintenance Facility) in:
Bremerton, WA,
Pearl Harbor, HI and
Philadelphia, PA

Puget Sound Naval Shipyard and Intermediate Maintenance Facility on Puget Sound at Bremerton, Washington:
The shipyard also contains a portion of the United States Navy reserve fleet, a large collection of inactive U.S. Navy vessels, including four aircraft carriers: the USS Independence (CV-62), the USS Constellation (CV-64), the USS Ranger (CV-61) and the USS Kitty Hawk (CV-63). The ships [reserve fleet] are mothballed, meaning that they are stored in case they are needed by the Navy in the future.

Specifically wrt the carriers:
USS Constellation (CV-64) - Stricken, to be disposed of
USS Independence (CV-62) - Stricken, to be disposed of
USS Kitty Hawk (CV-63) - Inactive reserve, out of commission
USS Ranger (CV-61) - Stricken, available for donation as a museum and memorial

Philadelphia, PA
USS Forrestal (CV-59) - Stricken, to be disposed of as scrap or artificial reef
USS John F. Kennedy (CV-67) - To Be Determined

Pearl Harbor, Hawaii has no decommed carriers

Although not technically a reserve fleet, the decommissioned aircraft carrier USS Saratoga is berthed pierside at the Newport naval complex. Saratoga was decommissioned in 1994. Multiple unsuccessful attempts have been made to preserve her as a museum ship, and she is currently slated for disposal. Naval Station Newport (NAVSTA Newport) is a United States Navy base located in the towns of Newport and Middletown, Rhode Island.

USS Enterprise (CVN-65), formerly CVA(N)-65, is a retired United States Navy aircraft carrier. Enterprise is a commissioned navy ship, but is inactive. She was the world's first nuclear-powered aircraft carrier. Enterprise's home port was Naval Station Norfolk, Virginia as of September 2012. Her final deployment, the last before her decommissioning, began on 10 March 2012 and ended 4 November 2012. She was inactivated on 1 December 2012, with her official decommissioning taking place sometime after the completion of an extensive terminal offload program currently underway.She has undergone enough of the four-year long inactivation process to render her unfit for further service. Inactivation removes fuel, fluids, furnishings, tools, fittings, oil, and de-energizes the electrical system. Enterprise has already been cut open to allow the removal of useable systems

In addition:
The USS America (CVA/CV-66) , one of four Kitty Hawk-class super carriers built for the United States Navy in the 1960s, the last U.S. supercarrier built not named after a person, and the first large aircraft carrier since Operation Crossroads in 1946 to be expended in weapons tests. In 2005, she was scuttled southeast of Cape Hatteras, after four weeks of tests, despite a large protest of former crew-members who wanted to see her instituted as a memorial museum. She was the largest warship ever to be sunk.

Retiring CVNs (of the Nimitz class) would most likely be kept in de ready reserve, 'mothballed' and available for reactivation should the need arise.
 
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The US is currently spending over 4% of GDP on 'defense'.

What is wrong with her? Debt to GDP has already surpassed 100% of GDP, and is still climbing rapidly now that free-spending Obama is in the chair. I think it's close to hitting 110%.

Either gut the military or gut the direct benefits (Social Security, Obamacare, Medicare, etc.)
 
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The aircraft carriers Dwight D. Eisenhower, George H.W. Bush, Enterprise, Harry S. Truman and Abraham Lincoln in Norfolk, Va., in December. Truman, along with the George Washington and John C. Stennis, are likely candidates for decommissioning if the most drastic of Pentagon cutting options is put into place. (US Navy)

bilde


WASHINGTON — At first, the statement is shocking. “Reduce the number of carrier strike groups from 11 to 8 or 9, draw down the Marine Corps from 182,000 to between 150,000 and 175,000.”

But those words July 31 from US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel brought into the open some of the behind-the-scenes discussions that have been going on at the Pentagon for months. Senior Defense Department officials continue to stress no decisions have been made out of the Strategic Choices and Management Review (SCMR), but the everything-is-on-the-table nature of the discussions is becoming clearer.

Or is it? Beyond top-line statements, hardly any real details were released, leaving those outside the inner circles to speculate on the immediate and far-reaching effects of sequestration. One reason, many observers feel, is that talking about a specific potential cut could turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy. Even acknowledging that an eight-carrier fleet is on the table, some fear, could turn that once-unthinkable idea into a reality.

And it’s not just about cutting carriers — it’s air wings with seven or so squadrons of aircraft, it’s a cruiser and three or four destroyers, and it’s the crews. Substantial savings would be found from reducing nearly 10,000 personnel billets with the elimination of each strike group.

Reducing the air wings would ease carrier acquisition, maintenance and recapitalization. The fleet of legacy F/A-18 Hornet aircraft – mostly C models — could be swiftly retired, leaving an all-Super Hornet fleet of Es and Fs that itself could be smaller than what exists today. Retirement of older SH-60 helicopters could also be accelerated.

Dropping the carrier fleet could be done several ways. Two or three ships could simply be ordered to go — likely the oldest ships that have not undergone a refueling overhaul. The older Nimitz-class ships — Nimitz, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Carl Vinson and Theodore Roosevelt — are likely safe, having completed their reactor refueling. Abraham Lincoln, which has just begun its overhaul at Huntington Ingalls Industries (HII) Newport News Shipbuilding in Newport News, Va., is likely safe, as the three-year effort has already been largely paid for. But the George Washington, set to begin its refueling overhaul in 2015, would likely go, along with the John C. Stennis and possibly the Harry S. Truman.

Spreading out the current five-year carrier building schedule is dangerous, and could actually lead to increased costs that would cancel out any savings. Significant portions of the carrier supply base are barely sustainable under the current schedule, and some suppliers can be expected to go out of business should the building time be stretched any further. Newport News, faced with the loss of the refueling overhauls and a longer building time, would be forced to lay off several thousand workers, again increasing costs for new ships.

Carriers also have a significant disposal cost. The eight-reactor Enterprise, now in the early stages of a multiyear disposal process, will likely cost more than $1.1 billion to ultimately dispose of. Nimitz-class carriers have only two reactors and could cost less to dispose of, but the bill still will be significant and, with inflation, would likely exceed the Big E’s cost.

Even laying up the carriers in mothballs will entail major costs. Reactors, once shut down for a significant time, cannot be restarted due to changes in their metallurgy, so the ships cannot be completely shut down and maintained in reserve.

Rather, the reactors would be set to a minimum level and the ships kept at a secure facility, like an active naval base. The Navy already has a significant backlog of seven decommissioned conventional carriers to get rid of, and the nukes would likely sit for some years before actually going away.

Fate of the Warships
The Navy’s 22 remaining Aegis cruisers are on the back-half of their projected 30-35 year careers, and the service already is trying to decommission seven.

The first Arleigh Burke-class destroyer entered service in 1991, and the Aegis ships are still being built. Complicating the decision about which ships would be cut are expensive modernization upgrades to the older ships, most of which have already received a ballistic-missile defense (BMD) capability — a key requirement among most regional combatant commanders.

For littoral combat ships, contract options to build them run through LCS 24, and the Navy is considering how to approach the rest of the planned 52-ship force. Options include eliminating one of the two LCS variants or ending the program at 24.

Cutting the Navy Department means cutting the Marine Corps, which inevitably leads to fewer amphibious ships. While the Navy seeks a 10 or 11-ship big-deck amphibious force, nine are in service today. Peleliu, the oldest assault ship, already is to be replaced by the new America. A reduction to eight big decks would likely mean the Wasp — about to begin a sorely-needed $110 million modernization overhaul — would be decommissioned.

Construction of the eleventh and last of the highly capable LPD 17 San Antonio class of amphibious transport docks has begun at HII’s Ingalls shipyard in Pascagoula, Miss., and the ships are nearly as effective as the bigger assault ships, so they would likely survive.

But the older dock landing ships of the Whidbey Island class would be on the chopping block — as would be their LSD(X) replacement.

Submarines
Pentagon support for the nuclear attack submarine force seems to be stronger than ever, and the number of SSNs is not likely to diminish. But the Navy’s desire to incorporate a Virginia Payload Module (VPM) with four large weapon tubes into Block V Virginia-class ships is threatened. Each VPM would add about $350 million to the cost of each sub, but without the modifications the four SSGN guided-missile submarines will retire in the 2020s without a replacement.

Also to be decided is the fate of the Ohio-class replacement submarine, a major acquisition effort sitting squarely in the middle of future shipbuilding budgets. The first ship isn’t scheduled to be ordered until 2021, but development costs are significant.

Future modernization programs also are at significant risk under the various SCMR options. The Air Missile Defense Radar (AMDR) to be installed in an Arleigh Burke Flight III version beginning in 2016 is threatened and could be delayed, despite urgent requirements for the BMD mission.

As for infrastructure, a fleet that would drop below 250 or 230 ships would also need fewer bases or support facilities. With the shift to the Pacific, whereby 60 percent of the fleet will be Pacific-based, several facilities could close. Targets would likely include the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard in Kittery, Maine, and Mayport Naval Station in Florida, as well as lesser facilities.

The shipbuilding industry could shift as well. The most striking change could be a joining of the two biggest shipbuilders, HII and General Dynamics. Such a move would probably mean the closure of one or two of the five major yards operated by the two companies. The upshot would mean less competition for Navy contracts, something the service would not welcome.

A US Navy With Only 8 Carriers? | Defense News | defensenews.com

I am 100% sure that if US tries to sell their 11 Austin class LPDs and 5 Tarawa class LHDs to India then they will gain some money to maintain their fleet and to build newer LPDs and LHDs too.

So IN will get:
12 Austin class LPDs
5 Tarawa class LHDs

That can really pose a bigger threat to any enemy on the Indian ocean(like China).
 
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I am 100% sure that if US tries to sell their 11 Austin class LPDs and 5 Tarawa class LHDs to India then they will gain some money to maintain their fleet and to build newer LPDs and LHDs too.

So IN will get:
12 Austin class LPDs
5 Tarawa class LHDs

That can really pose a bigger threat to any enemy on the Indian ocean(like China).
we are not floating on money.. we are already making 2 ACs.
 
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I am 100% sure that if US tries to sell their 11 Austin class LPDs and 5 Tarawa class LHDs to India then they will gain some money to maintain their fleet and to build newer LPDs and LHDs too.

So IN will get:
12 Austin class LPDs
5 Tarawa class LHDs

That can really pose a bigger threat to any enemy on the Indian ocean(like China).

Saale hamare paise gaach par nahi ugatey. Itna kuch Karidhney ke liye above $30billion lagega.
 
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Though a unrealistic dream , it would be nice to see one large flat top flying Indian colors:)
 
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Saale hamare paise gaach par nahi ugatey. Itna kuch Karidhney ke liye above $30billion lagega.

Though I know that India won't buy any of above ships mentioned but even if we do then It won't be costly because India bought INS Jalashwa in just $48 millions(220 crores). its less than a su-30MKI cost..lols
 
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Sic transit gloria mundi...
 
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Though I know that India won't buy any of above ships mentioned but even if we do then It won't be costly because India bought INS Jalashwa in just $48 millions(220 crores). its less than a su-30MKI cost..lols

So that means on a negotiated price:

11 Austin Class LPDs = 11 x $48 Million = $528-600 Million for another remaining LPDs

05 Tarawa Class LHDs = 05 x $50 Million = $250-300 Million

So IN will not require more than $900 Million at a max.....

Why are you saying $30 Billions....
 
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So that means on a negotiated price:

11 Austin Class LPDs = 11 x $48 Million = $528-600 Million for another remaining LPDs

05 Tarawa Class LHDs = 05 x $50 Million = $250-300 Million

So IN will not require more than $900 Million at a max.....

Why are you saying $30 Billions....

Acquisition costs may be low by your per ship ANNUAL operating cost are going to exceed those of an Su-30mki BY FAR.
 
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we are not floating on money.. we are already making 2 ACs.

Theoretically, you do have the money. Practically, you won't bow to Uncle Sam.

Sic transit gloria mundi...

You guys have two in reserve aside from the operational AC? Right?

The US is currently spending over 4% of GDP on 'defense'.

What is wrong with her? Debt to GDP has already surpassed 100% of GDP, and is still climbing rapidly now that free-spending Obama is in the chair. I think it's close to hitting 110%.

Either gut the military or gut the direct benefits (Social Security, Obamacare, Medicare, etc.)

Thanks to the war in terror.
 
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I am 100% sure that if US tries to sell their 11 Austin class LPDs and 5 Tarawa class LHDs to India then they will gain some money to maintain their fleet and to build newer LPDs and LHDs too.

So IN will get:
12 Austin class LPDs
5 Tarawa class LHDs

That can really pose a bigger threat to any enemy on the Indian ocean(like China).

If you want to remain a steam turbine based navy ...
If you like manpower intentive ships built 1965-1971 (Austin class) or 1971-1976 (Tarawa class) ...
If you unsink ships sunk as targets (USS Belleau Wood LHA-3) or unscrap those sold for scrapping (USS Saipan LHA-2) or deactivate those actively serving (USS Peleliu LHA-5)

USS Austin (LPD-4) Decommissioning date,27 September 2006 Final Disposition, scrapping contract awarded, 22 May 2009, to International Shipbreaking, Ltd, Brownsville TX.
USS Ogden (LPD-5) Decommissioned, 21 February 2007 Current Disposition, to be disposed of, laid up at NAVSEA Inactive Ship Maintenance Facility, Pearl Harbor , HI
USS Duluth (LPD-6) Decommissioned, 28 September 2005 Current Disposition, retained for logistics support (parts?)
USS Cleveland (LPD-7) Decommissioned, 30 September 2011, at Naval Station San Diego, retention in reserve
USS Dubuque (LPD-8) Decommissioned, 30 June 2011, at Naval Station San Diego, planned retention in reserve
USS Denver (LPD-9) is currently assigned to the Amphibious Force, COMNAVSURFPAC and will be forward deployed at Sasebo, Japan in July 2008 and scheduled to be decommissioned, 30 September 2014, at Pearl Harbor, HI. (active)
USS Juneau (LPD-10) Decommissioned, 30 October 2008. Towed to Pearl Harbor in November 2008 for storage in the US Navy's Inactive Ship Maintenance Facility, Pearl Harbor
USS Coronado (LPD-11) Decommissioned, 25 February 2005. Final Disposition, disposal of in support of Fleet training exercise (SINKEX) off Guam, 12 September 2012 (sunk)
USS Shreveport (LPD-12): Decommissioned and struck from the Naval Register, 26 September 2007, at Naval Station Norfolk, VA. Current Disposition, laid up at NAVSEA Inactive Ships Philadelphia, PA. awaiting disposal
USS Nashville LPD-13: Decommissioned, 30 September 2009, laid up at NAVSEA Inactive Ships On-site Maintenance Office, Philadelphia, PA
USS Trenton LPD-14: Decommissioned and turned over to the Indian Navy, 17 January 2007, renamed INS Jalashwa (L41). Commissioned into the Indian Navy, 22 June 2007
USS Ponce LPD-15: Redesignated Afloat Force Service Base (Interim) AFSB(I), 31 March 2012 (actively serving)
 
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If you want to remain a steam turbine based navy ...
If you like manpower intentive ships built 1965-1971 (Austin class) or 1971-1976 (Tarawa class) ...
If you unsink ships sunk as targets (USS Belleau Wood LHA-3) or unscrap those sold for scrapping (USS Saipan LHA-2) or deactivate those actively serving (USS Peleliu LHA-5)

USS Austin (LPD-4) Decommissioning date,27 September 2006 Final Disposition, scrapping contract awarded, 22 May 2009, to International Shipbreaking, Ltd, Brownsville TX.
USS Ogden (LPD-5) Decommissioned, 21 February 2007 Current Disposition, to be disposed of, laid up at NAVSEA Inactive Ship Maintenance Facility, Pearl Harbor , HI
USS Duluth (LPD-6) Decommissioned, 28 September 2005 Current Disposition, retained for logistics support (parts?)
USS Cleveland (LPD-7) Decommissioned, 30 September 2011, at Naval Station San Diego, retention in reserve
USS Dubuque (LPD-8) Decommissioned, 30 June 2011, at Naval Station San Diego, planned retention in reserve
USS Denver (LPD-9) is currently assigned to the Amphibious Force, COMNAVSURFPAC and will be forward deployed at Sasebo, Japan in July 2008 and scheduled to be decommissioned, 30 September 2014, at Pearl Harbor, HI. (active)
USS Juneau (LPD-10) Decommissioned, 30 October 2008. Towed to Pearl Harbor in November 2008 for storage in the US Navy's Inactive Ship Maintenance Facility, Pearl Harbor
USS Coronado (LPD-11) Decommissioned, 25 February 2005. Final Disposition, disposal of in support of Fleet training exercise (SINKEX) off Guam, 12 September 2012 (sunk)
USS Shreveport (LPD-12): Decommissioned and struck from the Naval Register, 26 September 2007, at Naval Station Norfolk, VA. Current Disposition, laid up at NAVSEA Inactive Ships Philadelphia, PA. awaiting disposal
USS Nashville LPD-13: Decommissioned, 30 September 2009, laid up at NAVSEA Inactive Ships On-site Maintenance Office, Philadelphia, PA
USS Trenton LPD-14: Decommissioned and turned over to the Indian Navy, 17 January 2007, renamed INS Jalashwa (L41). Commissioned into the Indian Navy, 22 June 2007
USS Ponce LPD-15: Redesignated Afloat Force Service Base (Interim) AFSB(I), 31 March 2012 (actively serving)

But is it possible for India to take their men to US and help them scrap old Ships....

Also selling back the Austin class to US for scrap up... I think US Navy and other Navies and armed forces in the world should look towards scraping up their older equipments...

Also IN should look toeards getting some newer LPDs from US like 6 of them and Also some LHDs from France too...
 
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You guys have two in reserve aside from the operational AC? Right?

Russia - a country of continental and not insular like the United States. For the Russian fleet - is secondary. While the U.S. aircraft carriers to hold all of their empire.
 
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