A tug of war between ISI and IB- Eenemy within Pakistan

[Bratva]

But why not before?
BTW it is not a conspiracy because it is a true news that 4 civilians will be made directors. There was a thread on PDF too.

You have turned the 'conspiracy theory' to 'conspiracy fact'. The aim is to eventually have the ability to promote civilians to the level of DG ISI. At which point you can say bye bye to Pakistan. I don't know where people arise to defend the malicious intent of American backed politicians who have been trying to get Army under their own control. Editorials in Dawn leave no doubts that this is the liberal extremist agenda.

Are you two professionals ? Working in an organization where you cant get a promotion ? If not, then that is why it is hard for both of you two digest a bitter fact. I'll give you my example. I work in government organization in qatar. In my current role, I've reached my apex. I wont be promoted, I wont get a raise afterwards. I cant switch jobs to another government or semi government organization as I will. It depends upon my organization to allow me to change jobs. All because I'm Non Qatari. Qataris can do all of that and get a higher raise than me. Does it mean It is conspiracy against Pakistani nationals here in Qatar ? Does it mean I should remain content with my current situation until the age of my retirement ?

Now compare what Civilians has to face in ISI, a military run organization. Is it wrong for civilians to demand parity with their military counterparts in ISI. ? Are you forgetting lately how many Civilian operatives of ISI has been killed in Recent Ops ? Does that mean, Civilian operatives should only work on the basis of nationalism and forego all the incentives ?

Civilian promotions has been capped at BPS-21, Which equivalent to Major General Post.

I guess you both two didn't bother to read the quote, "A source said the appointment of a “serving or retired civil servant in BPS-22” from outside was unacceptable for both the civilian and military officials of the ISI.

“Had the bill introduced a mechanism for the civilian control of the ISI from within the organisation it would have been acceptable for those running the agency,” the source claimed.

instead of questioning patrotism of civilians in ISI. How about you two start searching the sacrifices of ISI civilian operatives ?

"
Peshawar: Abdul Latif, the former regional director of Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), was gunned down in drive-by shooting in Peshawar.

Latif, 61, also a professor at Qurtaba University was killed on Tuesday.

“He was a resident of Tehkal but was on a visit to Hayatabad to meet his relatives when unknown attackers riding a motorcycle opened fire at him just outside the house, killing him on the spot,” the Express Tribune quoted Tatara SHO Abid Afridi as saying.

He had retired as a regional director from the ISI three years ago."

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/assistant-director-isi-usama-lashari-martyred.441406/


And the list goes and gone of Civilians getting killed in line of duty.



Now for the question of timing, You should ask ISI and their HR department who moved the summary to increase the number of Civilians in ISI at this particular instead of asking why civilians are accepting it now.

​

 

[CriticalThought]

Are you two professionals ? Working in an organization where you cant get a promotion ? If not, then that is why it is hard for both of you two digest a bitter fact. I'll give you my example. I work in government organization in qatar. In my current role, I've reached my apex. I wont be promoted, I wont get a raise afterwards. I cant switch jobs to another government or semi government organization as I will. It depends upon my organization to allow me to change jobs. All because I'm Non Qatari. Qataris can do all of that and get a higher raise than me. Does it mean It is conspiracy against Pakistani nationals here in Qatar ? Does it mean I should remain content with my current situation until the age of my retirement ?

Now compare what Civilians has to face in ISI, a military run organization. Is it wrong for civilians to demand parity with their military counterparts in ISI. ? Are you forgetting lately how many Civilian operatives of ISI has been killed in Recent Ops ? Does that mean, Civilian operatives should only work on the basis of nationalism and forego all the incentives ?

Civilian promotions has been capped at BPS-21, Which equivalent to Major General Post.

I guess you both two didn't bother to read the quote, "A source said the appointment of a “serving or retired civil servant in BPS-22” from outside was unacceptable for both the civilian and military officials of the ISI.

“Had the bill introduced a mechanism for the civilian control of the ISI from within the organisation it would have been acceptable for those running the agency,” the source claimed.

instead of questioning patrotism of civilians in ISI. How about you two start searching the sacrifices of ISI civilian operatives ?

"
Peshawar: Abdul Latif, the former regional director of Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), was gunned down in drive-by shooting in Peshawar.

Latif, 61, also a professor at Qurtaba University was killed on Tuesday.

“He was a resident of Tehkal but was on a visit to Hayatabad to meet his relatives when unknown attackers riding a motorcycle opened fire at him just outside the house, killing him on the spot,” the Express Tribune quoted Tatara SHO Abid Afridi as saying.

He had retired as a regional director from the ISI three years ago."

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/assistant-director-isi-usama-lashari-martyred.441406/


And the list goes and gone of Civilians getting killed in line of duty.



Now for the question of timing, You should ask ISI and their HR department who moved the summary to increase the number of Civilians in ISI at this particular instead of asking why civilians are accepting it now.

​

But Sir, here in Australia there are exactly such people who never get promoted, don't even get sick leaves, and have no job guarantee. They are called contractors and they command obscene salaries. The only need for civilians should be bringing in technical expertise and contractors can do that very well.

 

[war&peace]

Now compare what Civilians has to face in ISI, a military run organization. Is it wrong for civilians to demand parity with their military counterparts in ISI. ? Are you forgetting lately how many Civilian operatives of ISI has been killed in Recent Ops ? Does that mean, Civilian operatives should only work on the basis of nationalism and forego all the incentives ?

hello...don't get emotional. I'm all for civilian parity. I just didn't know the facts and @balixd explained it to me and I was okay but you jumped on with really a negative and unnecessary attitude "conspiracy pedalling".
I hope the situation becomes better for you but you should not be negative towards me.

 

[Yaseen1]

why army is not taking over the country.they should protect nation from traitor until things go out of hand otherwise people will never forgive them

 

[Amaa'n]

But Sir, here in Australia there are exactly such people who never get promoted, don't even get sick leaves, and have no job guarantee. They are called contractors and they command obscene salaries. The only need for civilians should be bringing in technical expertise and contractors can do that very well.

salute to you for comparing Pakistan with Australia --- i think it is fruitless to have any discussion with you especially when you have no idea what goes around in Pakistan - let alone Intelligence Agencies

 

[Safriz]

a serving IB operative ASI Malik Mukhtar Ahmed Shahzad went to the court filing a petition that the IB is intentionally protecting Terrorists. In the petition filed through his counsel Masroor Shah, Mr Shahzad has said he joined the IB in 2007 and that he “reported against various terrorist groups having roots in Uzbekistan, Iran, Afghanistan, Syria and India”.
“However, to the petitioner’s utter dismay, no action was ever been taken by IB in this respect despite concrete evidence provided to it in the form of the intelligence reports”, the petition says.


“Upon thorough intelligence gathering process, it transpired that certain high officials of the IB themselves are directly involved with the terrorist organizations having linkages with hostile enemy intelligence agencies” the petition reads.

It goes on to say that the matter was even reported to the IB director general, who also did not take any steps.

It says some IB officials travelled to Israel and had direct links with Afghan intelligence which, it was found later, had links with another terrorist group from Kazakhstan.

“These terrorists used to disguise themselves as citrus dealers in Kot-Momin and Bhalwal, Sargodha. The business was a mere camouflage,” the petition says.

 

[CriticalThought]

salute to you for comparing Pakistan with Australia --- i think it is fruitless to have any discussion with you especially when you have no idea what goes around in Pakistan - let alone Intelligence Agencies

Contractors are a management tool. ISI would do well to use management concepts from around the world.

 

[Amaa'n]

Are you two professionals ? Working in an organization where you cant get a promotion ? If not, then that is why it is hard for both of you two digest a bitter fact. I'll give you my example. I work in government organization in qatar. In my current role, I've reached my apex. I wont be promoted, I wont get a raise afterwards. I cant switch jobs to another government or semi government organization as I will. It depends upon my organization to allow me to change jobs. All because I'm Non Qatari. Qataris can do all of that and get a higher raise than me. Does it mean It is conspiracy against Pakistani nationals here in Qatar ? Does it mean I should remain content with my current situation until the age of my retirement ?

Now compare what Civilians has to face in ISI, a military run organization. Is it wrong for civilians to demand parity with their military counterparts in ISI. ? Are you forgetting lately how many Civilian operatives of ISI has been killed in Recent Ops ? Does that mean, Civilian operatives should only work on the basis of nationalism and forego all the incentives ?

Civilian promotions has been capped at BPS-21, Which equivalent to Major General Post.

I guess you both two didn't bother to read the quote, "A source said the appointment of a “serving or retired civil servant in BPS-22” from outside was unacceptable for both the civilian and military officials of the ISI.

“Had the bill introduced a mechanism for the civilian control of the ISI from within the organisation it would have been acceptable for those running the agency,” the source claimed.

instead of questioning patrotism of civilians in ISI. How about you two start searching the sacrifices of ISI civilian operatives ?

"
Peshawar: Abdul Latif, the former regional director of Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), was gunned down in drive-by shooting in Peshawar.

Latif, 61, also a professor at Qurtaba University was killed on Tuesday.

“He was a resident of Tehkal but was on a visit to Hayatabad to meet his relatives when unknown attackers riding a motorcycle opened fire at him just outside the house, killing him on the spot,” the Express Tribune quoted Tatara SHO Abid Afridi as saying.

He had retired as a regional director from the ISI three years ago."

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/assistant-director-isi-usama-lashari-martyred.441406/


And the list goes and gone of Civilians getting killed in line of duty.



Now for the question of timing, You should ask ISI and their HR department who moved the summary to increase the number of Civilians in ISI at this particular instead of asking why civilians are accepting it now.

​

chill man, @war&peace didn't get the point at first
this other guy from Aus, don't know what is happening ----

in 2010, there was a blanket ban on Recruitment in any Govt sector. The ban was only lifted in 2012 end of year.
In 2013 ISI recruited 27 ADs, 2014 - 64, 2015 - 33, and last was 2016/ 2017 i can't recall the number now----
Now where the hell all these numbers are going? they are going to be capped at BPS18? what about those who are already at bps 18?? there is a horizontal & vertical movement with in the organization

2016 x 15 Intelligence Officers were recruited for MI Field Ops,

Kids (not you war&peace) here have never even stepped outside of their home & coming here trying to lecture us how bad civilians are & how Intelligence organizations are working in the country

Contractors are a management tool. ISI would do well to use management concepts from around the world.

noted!!! i will pass on the suggestion to respective department

btw ever heard of a word called "OPSEC" ? you can say bye bye to that when you have "Contractors" running around spilling beans

a serving IB operative ASI Malik Mukhtar Ahmed Shahzad went to the court filing a petition that the IB is intentionally protecting Terrorists. In the petition filed through his counsel Masroor Shah, Mr Shahzad has said he joined the IB in 2007 and that he “reported against various terrorist groups having roots in Uzbekistan, Iran, Afghanistan, Syria and India”.
“However, to the petitioner’s utter dismay, no action was ever been taken by IB in this respect despite concrete evidence provided to it in the form of the intelligence reports”, the petition says.


“Upon thorough intelligence gathering process, it transpired that certain high officials of the IB themselves are directly involved with the terrorist organizations having linkages with hostile enemy intelligence agencies” the petition reads.

It goes on to say that the matter was even reported to the IB director general, who also did not take any steps.

It says some IB officials travelled to Israel and had direct links with Afghan intelligence which, it was found later, had links with another terrorist group from Kazakhstan.

“These terrorists used to disguise themselves as citrus dealers in Kot-Momin and Bhalwal, Sargodha. The business was a mere camouflage,” the petition says.

every agency has a dark side to it, IB has some good ops under its belt --- however lack of arresting powers have hinder the agency from taking a lead role in CT ops ---- most of the work is done in HUMINT & SIGINT, but they can't go in & arrest the bad guy they have to rely on Police / Paramilitary force ---- that allowed Politicos to exploit the manpower to their personal use

 

[Tps43]

Yes, exactly that's what I meant.

But why the number of civilian directors have been increased?

Actually there's re organization of ISI internal structure. And 60% of field workers are civilians in ISI

request was put in by Department itself ---- I can tell you for a fact that a request is sitting with GHQ top brass to be forwarded to Defense secretary for approval that will make contract employees of MI permanent - these contractors are civilians working in the position of G1/G2

And AGSO-1

 

[war&peace]

Actually there's re organization of ISI internal structure. And 60% of field workers are civilians in ISI

Actually I want to increase the strength of ISI which the smallest of the top 10 intel agencies and Alhamdulillah stays on top due to the dedication of its agents. But given the changing situation and growing need for intel in lieu of the 4th gen warfare, we need to expand our intel sources.

 

[Tps43]

Actually I want to increase the strength of ISI which the smallest of the top 10 intel agencies and Alhamdulillah stays on top due to the dedication of its agents. But given the changing situation and growing need for intel in lieu of the 4th gen warfare, we need to expand our intel sources.

Dont worry we are but I am really worried about AI and NI.

 

[war&peace]

Dont worry we are but I am really worried about AI and NI.

??
Do you mean Artificial Intelligence (AI)?
and what is NI?

 

[Tps43]

chill man, @war&peace didn't get the point at first
this other guy from Aus, don't know what is happening ----

in 2010, there was a blanket ban on Recruitment in any Govt sector. The ban was only lifted in 2012 end of year.
In 2013 ISI recruited 27 ADs, 2014 - 64, 2015 - 33, and last was 2016/ 2017 i can't recall the number now----
Now where the hell all these numbers are going? they are going to be capped at BPS18? what about those who are already at bps 18?? there is a horizontal & vertical movement with in the organization

2016 x 15 Intelligence Officers were recruited for MI Field Ops,

Kids (not you war&peace) here have never even stepped outside of their home & coming here trying to lecture us how bad civilians are & how Intelligence organizations are working in the country

noted!!! i will pass on the suggestion to respective department

btw ever heard of a word called "OPSEC" ? you can say bye bye to that when you have "Contractors" running around spilling beans

every agency has a dark side to it, IB has some good ops under its belt --- however lack of arresting powers have hinder the agency from taking a lead role in CT ops ---- most of the work is done in HUMINT & SIGINT, but they can't go in & arrest the bad guy they have to rely on Police / Paramilitary force ---- that allowed Politicos to exploit the manpower to their personal use

yes and as far I know even retired officers from army are also being inducting so MI was very good org in ops but its doing even better I am really worried about AI and NI even IB and FIA are doing things better than them.

??
Do you mean Artificial Intelligence (AI)?
and what is NI?

Air Intelligence
Naval Intelligence

 

[Amaa'n]

yes and as far I know even retired officers from army are also being inducting so MI was very good org in ops but its doing even better I am really worried about AI and NI even IB and FIA are doing things better than them.
Air Intelligence
Naval Intelligence

on the lighter note --- AI & NI are busy keeping tabs on Air & Bahria University students
but seriously speaking they have a very limited role, they have no man power & resources ----
AI & NI are mostly focused on Parameter / Base security , keeping check on its Officers, Setup a cordon if there is a movement of CNS / ASM --- they will not involve themselves in CT ops,
and they don't have to.especially when they are getting Intel from ISI ----

 

[Tps43]

on the lighter note --- AI & NI are busy keeping tabs on Air & Bahria University students
but seriously speaking they have a very limited role, they have no man power & resources ----
AI & NI are mostly focused on Parameter / Base security , keeping check on its Officers, Setup a cordon if there is a movement of CNS / ASM --- they will not involve themselves in CT ops,
and they don't have to.especially when they are getting Intel from ISI ----

Or checking who is driving without licence in bases/camps and where students go after bunking school like if they are there phupo.
But on serious note they can at least work like MI I mean seriously yaar They could had done alot but they are wasting there rss on nothing and I can say this about AI,NI that its a place where u can get promotions even if ur own branch doesn't accepts.
BTW I had got vibes that AI was planning to introduce a branch like of CMI and u know the interesting Part one of PAF operational branch's 75% Officers till sqn leaders wanted to join it