A Take On Communal Violence In India

[padamchen]

Just took a look at the OP video. Superficial.

The fact that many (most) Hindus do not get is that Indian Muslims are a nation within a nation. That is how their social structure is built. That is how they live.

Very few if any Hindus are allowed into that inner circle.

I'll give you a small example. Women and kids. When was the last time that you saw Muslim women dressed normally without being covered by a burqa and intermingling with their men and kids in a normal urban setting like a restaurant or a mall?

It does not happen.

Why? Because it happens ONLY in their own Muslim areas. Where they are confident that there are only Muslims around. And such areas are designed and protected and segregated as such in all towns and cities.

If you are allowed into those areas, and you will be only if you are accompanied by a Muslim, and only if he is sure of you, then you will get to see Muslim families and social structure in itself.

This is the reason we mistakenly assume that Pakistanis are more liberal and progressive as a society than our own Muslims.

That might be true to an extent in pockets (social) but the reality is that Pakistan is one big safe Muslim area.

And what we get to see is what we would see INSIDE similar safe Indian Muslim areas, on a much smaller scale, IF we got to go inside.

Which 99.9% of us do not.

Just some random thoughts. I don't know if @jamahir or @Politico would like to add, refute or corroborate.

 

[prashantazazel]

The Iskcon-run Akshaya Patra Foundation which the Karnataka state government has contracted to supply food for the school mid-day meal program, doesn't provide eggs to the students - for religious reasons. Eggs are the best non-meat source of protein but no supply here.

I have stopped donating to them due to this reason.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Why are you asking me?

Your new friend is a bit jittery.

 

[jamahir]

OK...yes but that would be more because of bhakts swarming around sugar like flies...not the sugar's fault.

OK.

There is actually a statue just outside where I would meet up with friends in downtown HK, that in very nuanced way commemorates the tianenmen tragedy

Hmm.

Afridi will never be forgiven for that comment.

Which comment ?

I'll give you a small example. Women and kids. When was the last time that you saw Muslim women dressed normally without being covered by a burqa and intermingling with their men and kids in a normal urban setting like a restaurant or a mall?

As I say often on PDF, this burqa thing is a phenomenon of the last 15 or so years. A supposed return to "Islamic values".

In my younger years my own female relatives didn't wear the burqa. Now they are forced to, because of a stifling environment created by the new champions of "Islamic values".

I was watching the recent re-runs of the old Doordarshan serial Dekh Bhai Dekh, and its female Muslim characters didn't wear the burqa. One episode was about a Muslim young man and young woman who meet in a cinema line and fall in love.

Remember my post from yesterday about a WhatsApp vid with a moralistic young man pre-emptively saying to some young college women "I know you don't go to parks and cinemas" ?

And where are Muslim actresses in Hindi films ? Among two recent ones who acted in Aamir Khan's Dangal, one is now "repenting" for being in the film line.

All this is a recent thing.

 

[prashantazazel]

When was the last time that you saw Muslim women dressed normally without being covered by a burqa and intermingling with their men and kids in a normal urban setting like a restaurant or a mall?

In Delhi, Burqas are common only in the old city areas. Extremely rare in other places.

 

[padamchen]

OK.



Hmm.



Which comment ?



As I say often on PDF, this burqa thing is a phenomenon of the last 15 or so years. A supposed return to "Islamic values".

In my younger years my own female relatives didn't wear the burqa. Now they are forced to, because of a stifling environment created by the new champions of "Islamic values".

I was watching the recent re-runs of the old Doordarshan serial Dekh Bhai Dekh, and its female Muslim characters didn't wear the burqa. One episode was about a Muslim young man and young woman who meet in a cinema line and fall in love.

Remember my post from yesterday about a WhatsApp vid with a moralistic young man pre-emptively saying to some young college women "I know you don't go to parks and cinemas" ?

And where are Muslim actresses in Hindi films ? Among two recent ones who acted in Aamir Khan's Dangal, one is now "repenting" for being in the film line.

All this is a recent thing.

I know all this because I have seen the "other" side.

This does not happen with any other Indian community.

See the video on another thread about how helpful/generous Pakistanis are. The first one with a Chinese woman asking for help is set in an affluent urban setting.

When a Chinese seek help in Pakistan（social experiment）

All those women have dupattas over their heads, or aunties bareheaded and wearing normal western clothes just like you would see in any Indian city.

Hence my theory above. What else can it be?

 

[vegav]

Why are you asking me?

Not asking you, just following up.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

That's funny. First they let you inside their home, and then talk cr@p about your country right in your face, as if you were one of their own. Maybe they would consider you one of their own if you tell them you are vegetarian - who knows?

Where have I seen that scene played out before so many times? Never mind.

Such a real scenario you described.

They're wonderful folks aside from the politics, and as I said, those who are forced to spend the majority of their lives with Muslims beyond the "dalitised" ones in India realise quite quickly that the propaganda doesn't stick.

@padamchen and others may well propagate the narrative that self-ghetto-isation is to blame. Indeed, we hear identical arguments in UK - that Pakistanis ghetto-ise themselves and don't wish to advance their communities but instead create states within states.

It's laughable and amateurish really. Muslims or Pakistanis, like anyone, can advance themselves once relative poverty is alleviated. All the usual socio-economic indicators such as family size or infant mortality or crime or women's employment are most of the time influenced by education and income. This is true all over the world. Yet bhakts would have us believe otherwise. Anyway, clearly you're of the educated variety hence I don't need to come across all preachy.

 

[Mad Scientist 2.0]

In Delhi, Burqas are common only in the old city areas. Extremely rare in other places.

Rest of the areas don't have muslim majority that is why percentage of muslims in delhi is 12.86 percent and concentrated mainly in central and north east delhi.

 

[padamchen]

Ughh you're ruining whatever good vibes and impressions I had of Parsis. But I'm not petty like you and paint a whole community by the actions of one dude. My impression of Parsis was of them being uber Anglo, very liberal and chill. My English Lit teacher was a Parsi, coolest woman ever. You, otoh, sound like such a Brahmin baby boomer uncle, a baniya Gujarati uncle with a pot belly who smells of agarbatti incense and relies on conspiracy theories from WhatsApp. Seriously dude, Pakistan is not what you see from your media and not all Muslims are kohl wearing, rosary carrying Mullahs.

The rules of the forum are clear, but you seem intent on breaking them since you magically spawned yesterday.

Discuss the post and not the member.

 

[jamahir]

In Delhi, Burqas are common only in the old city areas.

Has this been always or only in the last 15 years or so ?

See the video on another thread about how helpful/generous Pakistanis are. The first one with a Chinese woman asking for help is set in an affluent urban setting.

All those women have dupattas over their heads, or aunties bareheaded and wearing normal western clothes just like you would see in any Indian city.

From what I know of Pakistan from watching vids, reading etc I find a greatly lesser percentage of women in Pakistan wearing burqa than in India. Watch those old Wagah border crossings with Pakistani women fashionably dressed up in salwar kameez and dark glasses. Or Hina Rabbani Khar coming to India all dolled up.

 

[padamchen]

They're wonderful folks aside from the politics, and as I said, those who are forced to spend the majority of their lives with Muslims beyond the "dalitised" ones in India realise quite quickly that the propaganda doesn't stick.

@padamchen and others may well propagate the narrative that self-ghetto-isation is to blame. Indeed, we hear identical arguments in UK - that Pakistanis ghetto-ise themselves and don't wish to advance their communities but instead create states within states.

It's laughable and amateurish really. Muslims or Pakistanis, like anyone, can advance themselves once relative poverty is alleviated. All the usual socio-economic indicators such as family size or infant mortality or crime or women's employment are most of the time influenced by education and income. This is true all over the world. Yet bhakts would have us believe otherwise. Anyway, clearly you're of the educated variety hence I don't need to come across all preachy.

You are not hearing the Indians, Muslim and non Muslim, here.

Indian Muslims ARE advancing. Education is on the rise. Babies are down.

They get it.

But the ghettoisation, orthodox hyper-religosity and religious signaling is very much on the rise.

Why are we going to do propaganda on a Pakistani forum man? Its not like you are BBC here.

 

[Cliftonite]

The rules of the forum are clear, but you seem intent on breaking them since you magically spawned yesterday.

Discuss the post and not the member.

Okay boomer. But do get out of your resident Muslim ghetto of Byculla and see Muslims outside of this compartmentalised image you have made of them as kohl wearing rosary carrying breeders.

 

[padamchen]

Okay boomer. But do get out of your resident Muslim ghetto of Byculla and see Muslims outside of this compartmentalised image you have made of them as kohl wearing rosary carrying breeders.

I live in very cosmopolitan south Poona.

 

[Cliftonite]

Indian people seem to have reaffirmed their own stereotypes about Muslims and cemented them even more. Most Hindus we have here in Pakistan are very stereotypically Gujju and Brahmin (stingy, superstitious and all). But far from me to make a generalization about all Hindus. It would be nice if Indians would do the same for us. Especially the boomers who frequent this board.