A Super Power without Allies ?

[vostok]

Of course, you can find millions of reasons in the Internet, it's not difficult.
I like the explanation of Anatoly Wasserman - the great Jewish wiseman from Odessa. Among other things, he is engaged in mathematics, cybernetics and economics. He said that by the 1960s the number of units of manufactured goods had grown by several dozens times in comparison with the 1930s. In the 1930s, the planned socialist economy was more effective than the capitalist one. However, by the 1960s, state planning had become inefficient, since the state ministries simply did not have time to change plans because of accelerated progress. The USSR lost its leadership in economic development (in 30's it grew up to 30% per year and became second world economy in pre-WW2 years), and then in science and technology.
However, thanks to the development of information technology, by about 2025, it will be possible to return to state planning, since it will be possible to update the state plan approximately once a day. This will make the planned economy by different estimates 3-10 times more efficient than the capitalist economy. The country that will first create a comprehensive state economic plan with the use of new information technologies will become the leader of the 21st century.

 

[Shamsher1990]

As we all know currently USA is the sole Super power in this world but there was a time when there was another ( USSR ) but it crumbled and divided into several small independent states. After giving some thought into it , I wonder what cause the USSR to collapse ? was it bad economy ? weak Army ? lack of allies or their support ? strategic blunders ? etc ..

It was strategic economic blunder and an unsustainable arms race with USA. They had lots of 'satellite allied countries' where they poured wealth.

 

[Beast]

China is no superwoper...
Globaly it has no military strenght to act like a superpower... like the USA today or USA and USSR in the past
China is only a economy superpower and only a regional military power...

China cant even stop the US NAVY to sail through international water that China claims their own at their front door... something the USA would have never tryed during the cold war with USSR and the USSR not with USA

Lol... China has a big axe but when China does not use the big axe to hack someone. Does not mean the big axe is non existent or useless. China can send CV-16 Liaoning to 50nm of Hawaii pear harbour inside international water. It is totally legal. But does China needs to do that? It just a matter of China not to do this kind of petty action.

USA is following international law of sailing their CVN through taiwan strait( taiwan strait is an international strait)and there is nothing China can do. China is civilised country that do not attack unnecessary.

Talking about military, which country has more warship than China besides USN? PLAN has 2 carriers (with more in build)in seevice and mote than other nation has beside USN. Same as number of destroyer, submarine and large amphibious ships which is unrival except USA.

In terms of space military asset, China is again unrival except US. Not even Russia has the number nor sophistication of military satellite China has.

In terms of army, China is the world largest army with full mechanized and all unit equipped with SPH and far more new asset than even the US army. Chinese Marine is also unrival in terms of amphibious vehicle and number.

Scramble has rank China having the second largest airforce ,more than Russia airforce.
China and US are both , only nation to field true 5th gen fighter jets which European and Russian can't even matched the feat.

If somebody thinks China is not a military power , they need to get their head check. China is no way the level of US military but is second in the world. More or less it tells u something.

 

[Shamsher1990]

However, thanks to the development of information technology, by about 2025, it will be possible to return to state planning, since it will be possible to update the state plan approximately once a day. This will make the planned economy by different estimates 3-10 times more efficient than the capitalist economy. The country that will first create a comprehensive state economic plan with the use of new information technologies will become the leader of the 21st century.

I doubt that new tools can fix the fundamental error in a planned economy. There is an incentive to keep things secret. An incentive to let the problem grow undetected. That is to save your behinds. And it is possible by the time the problems become apparent, it is too late.

 

[royalharris]

Lol... China has a big axe but when China does not use the big axe to hack someone. Does not mean the big axe is non existent or useless. China can send CV-16 Liaoning to 50nm of Hawaii pear harbour inside international water. It is totally legal. But does China needs to do that? It just a matter of China not to do this kind of petty action.

USA is following international law of sailing their CVN through taiwan strait( taiwan strait is an international strait)and there is nothing China can do. China is civilised country that do not attack unnecessary.

Talking about military, which country has more warship than China besides USN? PLAN has 2 carriers (with more in build)in seevice and mote than other nation has beside USN. Same as number of destroyer, submarine and large amphibious ships which is unrival except USA.

In terms of space military asset, China is again unrival except US. Not even Russia has the number nor sophistication of military satellite China has.

In terms of army, China is the world largest army with full mechanized and all unit equipped with SPH and far more new asset than even the US army. Chinese Marine is also unrival in terms of amphibious vehicle and number.

Scramble has rank China having the second largest airforce ,more than Russia airforce.
China and US are both , only nation to field true 5th gen fighter jets which European and Russian can't even matched the feat.

If somebody thinks China is not a military power , they need to get their head check. China is no way the level of US military but is second in the world. More or less it tells u something.

China is a developing country,not a super power

USA and India are super powers

 

[LeGenD]

USSR economy is almost non existent. It mainly financial its economy by export of raw material like oil.

The most important reason for USSR collapse is becos of its poor economy shape and suffering of ordinary citizen.

I will not say USA is the sole superpower. China is definitely another superpower. It has almost a similar size economy of US and a military second only to USA.

True to large extent.

Some people imagine Soviet-Afghan War while thinking about the collapse of USSR but this was a negligible factor. USSR took infinitely harsh beating from the Wehrmacht in World War II and didn't collapse, therefore, Soviet problems stemmed from elsewhere.

USSR adopted an economic model which did not empower its people, engaged in a costly arms race with the US*, and Gorbachev's political reforms (PERESTROIKA) tore through the fabric of alliances between the Soviet Socialist Republics.

Perestroika refers to a series of political and economic reforms meant to kickstart the stagnant 1980s economy of the Soviet Union. Its architect, President Mikhail Gorbachev, would oversee the most fundamental changes to his nation’s economic engine and political structure since the Russian Revolution. But the suddenness of these reforms, coupled with growing instability both inside and out of the Soviet Union, would contribute to the collapse of the U.S.S.R. in 1991.

Source: https://www.history.com/topics/cold-war/perestroika-and-glasnost

*Some analysts argue that Reagen's Star Wars program bankrupted USSR.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

True to large extent.

Some people imagine Soviet-Afghan War while thinking about the collapse of USSR but this was a negligible factor. USSR took infinitely harsh beating from the Wehrmacht in World War II and didn't collapse, therefore, Soviet problems stemmed from elsewhere.

USSR adopted an economic model which did not empower its people, engaged in a costly arms race with the US*, and Gorbachev's political reforms (PERESTROIKA) tore through the fabric of alliances between the Soviet Socialist Republics.

Perestroika refers to a series of political and economic reforms meant to kickstart the stagnant 1980s economy of the Soviet Union. Its architect, President Mikhail Gorbachev, would oversee the most fundamental changes to his nation’s economic engine and political structure since the Russian Revolution. But the suddenness of these reforms, coupled with growing instability both inside and out of the Soviet Union, would contribute to the collapse of the U.S.S.R. in 1991.

Source: https://www.history.com/topics/cold-war/perestroika-and-glasnost

*Some analysts argue that Reagen's Star Wars program bankrupted USSR.

I also think their state run companies had no incentive to innovate leaving the average citizen with dated technology. This caused a perceived backwardsness when they compared themselves to the West. This certainly made the average person question the Soviet model.

 

[Jlaw]

As we all know currently USA is the sole Super power in this world but there was a time when there was another ( USSR ) but it crumbled and divided into several small independent states. After giving some thought into it , I wonder what cause the USSR to collapse ? was it bad economy ? weak Army ? lack of allies or their support ? strategic blunders ? etc ..

There is this one question that pop into my head about the afghan war which struck the last nail in the USSR coffin , USSR was badly losing in Afghanistan .. Americans use their every possible Ally in the region to beat them , Pakistan trained and Fought with Afghans to hurt USSR , Arabs poured in Millions of Dollars and manpower , and so Europe back US actions . Who were USSR Allies and what were they doing ? I can think of India as very close ally to USSR , and they are the closest to help their cause with money or manpower but why they didn't do it ? why USSR did not use the same tactics US used against them ??

Please discuss ..

@Oscar @Inception-06 @django @Beast @Signalian @Indus Pakistan @HRK @tps77 @war&peace @Mentee @Zarvan @Basel @Game.Invade @MastanKhan @Windjammer @Kaniska @AUSTERLITZ @HariPrasad @vostok @F-22Raptor @jhungary @VCheng @Knuckles @jamahir @Combat-Master @gambit @illusion8

Please keep the discussion as Civil/formal as possible ..

@Hamartia Antidote what do you think about this?

 

[Georg]

Lol... China has a big axe but when China does not use the big axe to hack someone. Does not mean the big axe is non existent or useless. China can send CV-16 Liaoning to 50nm of Hawaii pear harbour inside international water. It is totally legal. But does China needs to do that? It just a matter of China not to do this kind of petty action.

USA is following international law of sailing their CVN through taiwan strait( taiwan strait is an international strait)and there is nothing China can do. China is civilised country that do not attack unnecessary.

Talking about military, which country has more warship than China besides USN? PLAN has 2 carriers (with more in build)in seevice and mote than other nation has beside USN. Same as number of destroyer, submarine and large amphibious ships which is unrival except USA.

In terms of space military asset, China is again unrival except US. Not even Russia has the number nor sophistication of military satellite China has.

In terms of army, China is the world largest army with full mechanized and all unit equipped with SPH and far more new asset than even the US army. Chinese Marine is also unrival in terms of amphibious vehicle and number.

Scramble has rank China having the second largest airforce ,more than Russia airforce.
China and US are both , only nation to field true 5th gen fighter jets which European and Russian can't even matched the feat.

If somebody thinks China is not a military power , they need to get their head check. China is no way the level of US military but is second in the world. More or less it tells u something.

bla bla bla... China has not the ability to operate world wide like the USA.
China is no military Superpower no mattter how hard u try... get it kid..

China has ONE oversea base...

Germany 2
France 10
Russia has 15
UK has 20
USA has 65

If you want to be a military superpower you have to be able to act world wide.... which China could not ...

No Superpower no matter what claims u make

I never claimed China has a weak military... but it lacks completely the ability to operate world wide at many different place at the same time over a long period of time... and without the ability to act world wide it is no military superpower!!!

 

[Jlaw]

USSR economy is almost non existent. It mainly financial its economy by export of raw material like oil.

The most important reason for USSR collapse is becos of its poor economy shape and suffering of ordinary citizen.

I will not say USA is the sole superpower. China is definitely another superpower. It has almost a similar size economy of US and a military second only to USA.

Dude, currently China is no superpower.

 

[Beast]

bla bla bla... China has not the ability to operate world wide like the USA.
China is no military Superpower no mattter how hard u try... get it kid..

China has ONE oversea base...

Germany 2
France 10
Russia has 15
UK has 20
USA has 65

If you want to be a military superpower you have to be able to act world wide.... which China could not ...

No Superpower no matter what claims u make

I never claimed China has a weak military... but it lacks completely the ability to operate world wide at many different place at the same time over a long period of time... and without the ability to act world wide it is no military superpower!!!

LOL... If USA has only 1 oversea base only and 10 CVN plus 15 Amphibious assault warship that can ferry 100,000 men anywhere in the world in a week. By your standard, USA will not become a superpower?

Having overseas base do help but lacking any meaningful of projection or asset to protect it , is as good as useless.

I rather has no zero oversea bases and 10 CVN plus 45 destroyer compare to a country with 20 oversea bases with zero CV and few low quality destroyer and zero means of LPD/LHD that cant do anything..

You just selective pick on invalid points to try prove your point.

PLAN has five 210000tons LDP, one operation 67000tons CV, screen by many destroyer and frigate. Plus 50000tons replenish ship. No even French Navy can match that kind of forces. Not to even mention Royal Navy and Russian Navy. PLAN current asset can allow to conduct the kind of overseas power projection anywhere in the world against ISIS or second, third rate armed forces.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

bla bla bla... China has not the ability to operate world wide like the USA.
China is no military Superpower no mattter how hard u try... get it kid..

China has ONE oversea base...

Germany 2
France 10
Russia has 15
UK has 20
USA has 65

If you want to be a military superpower you have to be able to act world wide.... which China could not ...

No Superpower no matter what claims u make

I never claimed China has a weak military... but it lacks completely the ability to operate world wide at many different place at the same time over a long period of time... and without the ability to act world wide it is no military superpower!!!

Actually when it comes to strategic overseas operations France and the UK have so many tropical islands worldwide they could move around the World very easily if they wanted to without needing alliances. Check out the maps in this thread showing all they own...it's crazy.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/nati...-overseas-territories-and-possessions.390961/

 

[YeBeWarned]

Guys Please dont go off topic, the thread is not about if China is Super Power or not ..

 

[UserUnknown2025]

Of course, you can find millions of reasons in the Internet, it's not difficult.
I like the explanation of Anatoly Wasserman - the great Jewish wiseman from Odessa. Among other things, he is engaged in mathematics, cybernetics and economics. He said that by the 1960s the number of units of manufactured goods had grown by several dozens times in comparison with the 1930s. In the 1930s, the planned socialist economy was more effective than the capitalist one. However, by the 1960s, state planning had become inefficient, since the state ministries simply did not have time to change plans because of accelerated progress. The USSR lost its leadership in economic development (in 30's it grew up to 30% per year and became second world economy in pre-WW2 years), and then in science and technology.
However, thanks to the development of information technology, by about 2025, it will be possible to return to state planning, since it will be possible to update the state plan approximately once a day. This will make the planned economy by different estimates 3-10 times more efficient than the capitalist economy. The country that will first create a comprehensive state economic plan with the use of new information technologies will become the leader of the 21st century.

Agreed. This is why China has made AI and big data a priority. Even Jack Ma said, in one of his speeches, that information technology will fundamentally improve the efficiency of planned economy.

 

[Georg]

LOL... If USA has only 1 oversea base only and 10 CVN plus 15 Amphibious assault warship that can ferry 100,000 men anywhere in the world in a week. By your standard, USA will not become a superpower?

Having overseas base do help but lacking any meaningful of projection or asset to protect it , is as good as useless.

I rather has no zero oversea bases and 10 CVN plus 45 destroyer compare to a country with 20 oversea bases with zero CV and few low quality destroyer and zero means of LPD/LHD that cant do anything..

You just selective pick on invalid points to try prove your point.

PLAN has five 210000tons LDP, one operation 67000tons CV, screen by many destroyer and frigate. Plus 50000tons replenish ship. No even French Navy can match that kind of forces. Not to even mention Royal Navy and Russian Navy. PLAN current asset can allow to conduct the kind of overseas power projection anywhere in the world against ISIS or second, third rate armed forces.

dude seriously

there is a huge different between...

PLAN and REAL

and no without 65 oversea bases their 10 carrier groups could not go were they want to go like today... they need supply... they need fuel ...they need repair... etc...

you realy have no clue what military superpower means...

Russia PLANED to buy 2300 T-14.... at the end they have ordered 100....