A Statue for A Pakistani Punjabi Hero.....Porus

[Rafi]

before partition that part where he fought was in India, he was a gandhar kshytriya, which means he was a hindu warrior, there are no kshytriyas in present day pakistan, so we have an equal claim on him, stop your rants.

Muslims of Khatri origin

Following invasions by Turkic tribes from Afghanistan and the North West Frontier Province from the 11th century onwards, there were conversions of Hindus to Islam from among various Punjabi communities, including Khatris. Generally they retained their tribal and clan affiliations, as has been the norm in the region. Similarly, the Khatris who converted to Islam continue to retain a strong social identity.
Pakistan continues to have a prominent community of Khatris. Some Muslim Khatris like the Sahgal family, Aftab Ahmed Vohra, and Najam Sethi of Pakistan are examples of well-known and successful Muslim Khatris.

Khawajas

When Khatri traders from the western districts of the Punjab like Sargodha, Jhang, Jehlum, Chakwal, Faisalabad accepted Islam, they called themselves Khawaja and adopted Shaikh as their title. They are thus called Khawaja Shaikh. Some of them have also adopted Mian as a title. In recent years traders from the small town of Chiniot, in the Chiniot District, became prominent due to their contribution in the industries of Pakistan. These traders are known as Chiniotis or Chinioti Shaikhs. The trading family of Sahgals, Sahgal Khatris of Chakwal, are known simply as Punjabi Shaikh instead of Khawaja Shaikh. They use "Mian" as a title.
The first censuses of the Punjab were conducted by Denzil Ibbetson and Edward Maclagan in 1883 and 1892. According to their reports, the Khawajas of Bhera in Shahpur, Sargodha District were converted from Khatris, and those from Jhang were said to be converted from Aroras. At Chiniot, the majority of the Khawajas are Khatris, and some are Arora. They reported the following sections (gotras) of Khatris from Chiniot: Sahgal, Wadhaun (or Vadhavan), Talwar, Puri, Topra. One gotra of Arora was reported from Chiniot: the Goruwala.
The gotras of Khawajas from Bhera were reported as follows: Vohra, Sahgal, Kapur, Sethi, Duggal, Nanda, Mehndru, Chadha, Suri. These are all Khatri gotras.
The Khawajas of Layyah have following Khatri sections: Kapur, Puri, and Tandan

 

[Rajput Warrior]

From wat i have read Raja Porus was a Rajput Punjabi not a Jatt.
It has been recorded that the Pandava tribe ruled the region of Punjab and specifically Jhelum during the era of Alexander the Great.

“ The Punjabi ruler was Raja Porus, said to be a direct descendant of the Pandava kings ”
—City of Legends

Ptolemy recorded the presence of the Pandoouoi (Greek transliteration of Pandava) clan in the geographic location noted by Greek writers of King Porus's kingdom in Punjab where he fought Alexander the Great.

 

[gubbi]

Lets not get bogged down in mutual hostility, what I think Truth Teller was referring to was, that indian Punjabi's only constitute 3% of india's population.

I do like your posts - especially those which make logical sense, about the rest, lets leave them. I really find it amusing how some members here go all out "showing sympathy" to the Indian Sikhs, Dalits, Maoists etc. Some even calling for an independent state of Kahlistan. But then when (IIRC) Abir put forth the idea of an independent Kahlistan with Lahore as its capital each and every one of those sympathizers fell silent! We Indians show no such phony support for Pakistani Hindus or other minorities. I am sure they are as patriotic about Pakistan as your other country men following Islam. So his comment about only Sikhs reserving the right to celebrate Porus as one of them is very hollow and pretentious, not to mention what constitutes as pandering! Same goes for others who exhibit such artificial sympathies.
Quoting you, what if Sikhs constitute only 3% of Indian population? They are as proud to be Indian as any other proud Indian. And every Indian is proud of the Sikh community and their contributions.

That being said, your family history is fascinating! So you are a descendent of Porus' Commander Manga. Do you have any information about the commander? And about the comment that the vanquished expecting no quarter in defeat is IMHO an over exaggeration. Havent there been numerous instances about captured warriors being spared their lives even sometimes defeated Generals or Kings being given their kingdoms back? Porus earned Alexander's admiration thorough his feats on the battlefield, and being as shrewed as he was, Alexander saw an opportunity to control the territories through Porus and collect revenue. That makes sense in Alexander's decision to spare Porus.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Gubbi dude dont talk abt punjabis... ur not even a punjabi urself(nor am i).... Just coz 2-3% punjabis live in india doesnt make india somehow the owner of the whole punjabi history.. or the historic stuff tht happened in wat is today Pakistan... Its like claiming tht the father of some guy frm jehlum is also the grand daddy of a indian guy sitting in delhi or mumbai.
P.S=According to Firdusi(Irans national poet) Porus actually won the battle thts why alexander returned to greece........ Its also a well known fact tht he almost died in the battle.

@Rafi=Bro Hope u know Porus was 7 ft tall......So good luck.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Hope u know Porus was 7 ft tall. n Not a Jatt.

Theres no way in hell he was 7 foot, maybe 6 foot. 6 foot back then was like 7 foot know.

And Porus was sadly defeated.

Nice video

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Theres no way in hell he was 7 foot, maybe 6 foot. 6 foot back then was like 7 foot know.

Wat r u talkin abt?

And Porus was sadly defeated.

Nice video

Do u believe everything Hollywood says?n not an ancient Persian historian who recorded the battle.

 

[Safriz]

My ancestral family village is in Jhelum - close to the site of the historical battle of Hydaspes River with Alexander the Great, our Jatt village is known for producing Warriors for generations, we have oral tradition of fighting in the battle against Alexander, right up to the modern day, when we send our sons and daughters to fight for the Pakistani Armed Forces.

To cut a long story short, our village is thinking of erecting two statues and a monument to Alexander and Porus. To pay tribute to the two great warriors of their times, one a Greek Macedonian and the other a Pakistani Punjabi

It is a shame that their is no significant monument to this ancient battle.

Dude forget about statues on which birds will poop for years to come and it wont look good..Instead buy good quality metal detectors...Legend says the area is littered with ancient artifacts specially from the battle..Legend say that Alexander also buried a big pile of gold and treasures along the river Jhelum..
If with the help of professional treasure hunting detectors you and your fellow villagers comb the area .. you might get lucky...That will be a more creative investment....

 

[Rafi]

I do like your posts - especially those which make logical sense, about the rest, lets leave them. I really find it amusing how some members here go all out "showing sympathy" to the Indian Sikhs, Dalits, Maoists etc. Some even calling for an independent state of Kahlistan. But then when (IIRC) Abir put forth the idea of an independent Kahlistan with Lahore as its capital each and every one of those sympathizers fell silent! We Indians show no such phony support for Pakistani Hindus or other minorities. I am sure they are as patriotic about Pakistan as your other country men following Islam. So his comment about only Sikhs reserving the right to celebrate Porus as one of them is very hollow and pretentious, not to mention what constitutes as pandering! Same goes for others who exhibit such artificial sympathies.
Quoting you, what if Sikhs constitute only 3% of Indian population? They are as proud to be Indian as any other proud Indian. And every Indian is proud of the Sikh community and their contributions.

That being said, your family history is fascinating! So you are a descendent of Porus' Commander Manga. Do you have any information about the commander? And about the comment that the vanquished expecting no quarter in defeat is IMHO an over exaggeration. Havent there been numerous instances about captured warriors being spared their lives even sometimes defeated Generals or Kings being given their kingdoms back? Porus earned Alexander's admiration thorough his feats on the battlefield, and being as shrewed as he was, Alexander saw an opportunity to control the territories through Porus and collect revenue. That makes sense in Alexander's decision to spare Porus.

I think it was the exception rather than the rule. In ancient times if you lost a battle - you were basically summarily executed. Regarding Alexander - his greatness must have been his charisma, think about it, he inspired his troops to travel from Greece to half way around the world.

Regarding Manga he was a cavalry commander - in our oral tradition he received more than 30 wounds not 1 of them on his back - which shows that he never turned his back on the Greeks, in our tradition it is the horse archers of the Macedonians that carried the day for Alexander as the Punjabi's cavalry could not compete.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Dude this was like 300 BC. Its crazy enough finding a 7 foot guy in our modern age. I bet he was like 6,4 or something, which is like a giant I am sure back then. Its not hollywwod that says that he was defeated, but educated historians all over the world. I know Indians and Pakistans would disagree, but he was defeated.

http://i52.tinypic.com/21bp5bc.jpg

This is a modern picture. With heights that are average to western nation's citizens. Dont be supprised when they find out Alexander was like 5'5 and not like 6 foot like in the movies too.

 

[Rafi]

Dude forget about statues on which birds will poop for years to come and it wont look good..Instead buy good quality metal detectors...Legend as the area must be littered with ancient artifacts specially from the battle..Legend say that Alexander also buried a big pile of gold and treasures along the river Jhelum..
If with the help of professional treasure hunting detectors you and your fellow villagers comb the area .. you might get lucky...That will be a more creative investment....

Veer - we have to teach the next generation about our history, and occasionally tv crews come and film in the area, so it would be nice to have a monument, here is an example.

Vercingetorix = this guy was a Gaul (ancestors of the French) he was defeated by Caesar, but the French have erected a statue to honor him.

 

[gubbi]

Gubbi dude dont talk abt punjabis... ur not even a punjabi urself(nor am i).... Just coz 2-3% punjabis live in india doesnt make india somehow the owner of the whole punjabi history.. or the historic stuff tht happened in wat is today Pakistan... Its like claiming tht the father of some guy frm jehlum is also the grand daddy of a indian guy sitting in delhi or mumbai.

Where did I ever claim "ownership"? History is history - recorded, studied by highly educated, experienced academics and scholars. Hearsay, rumors and mere wishes dont change what happened. Every story is scrutinized and studied before being established as a fact. Today Pakistan is a fact. It wasnt, in any form, before 1947 - give it whatever wild spin you want. Thats all.
About me, you assume too much.

 

[Safriz]

Veer - we have to teach the next generation about our history, and occasionally tv crews come and film in the area, so it would be nice to have a monument, here is an example.

Vercingetorix = this guy was a Gaul (ancestors of the French) he was defeated by Caesar, but the French have erected a statue to honor him.

And the cost will be?

Did you know that birds specially pigeons get diarrhea as soon as they see a statue?

 

[Joe Shearer]

I think it was the exception rather than the rule. In ancient times if you lost a battle - you were basically summarily executed. Regarding Alexander - his greatness must have been his charisma, think about it, he inspired his troops to travel from Greece to half way around the world.

Regarding Manga he was a cavalry commander - in our oral tradition he received more than 30 wounds not 1 of them on his back - which shows that he never turned his back on the Greeks, in our tradition it is the horse archers of the Macedonians that carried the day for Alexander as the Punjabi's cavalry could not compete.

Horse archers of the Makedonians? What horse archers? Do you know the composition of the Makedonian army and its various formations? there were Scythian archers and they were auxiliaries, not part of the Makedonian army.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Dude this was like 300 BC. Its crazy enough finding a 7 foot guy in our modern age. I bet he was like 6,4 or something, which is like a giant I am sure back then. Its not hollywwod that says that he was defeated, but educated historians all over the world. I know Indians and Pakistans would disagree, but he was defeated.

http://i52.tinypic.com/21bp5bc.jpg

This is a modern picture. With heights that are average to western nation's citizens. Dont be supprised when they find out Alexander was like 5'5 and not like 6 foot like in the movies too.

Is it just I or is this thread weird?

It is well-established that Alexander was short-statured, like most other Greeks of his time, not in excess of 5'6'.

 

[twoplustwoisfour]

You indians dont have any claim over him. Only people in india who can have a claim over him are Sikhs. Why do the rest of you indians try to take pride in Punjabi history or try to claim Punjabi history as your own.

We Punjabis dont try to claim marathi, bengali, south indian, gujrati, ect. history.

Please take pride in your own ethnicity and history. If you feel you dont have anything to be proud of, then dont try to claim other's history as your own for god's sake.

I am a Punjabi Hindu whose family was thrown out of Pakistan at the time of Partition. I have an equal right on Punjabi history as you Bigots.

Add to it the fact that you have turned your back on the Sikhs by calling yourself an Islamic nation, therefore, you have no right to claim Sikh history as your own.