A sole international market for China's J-10 fighter jets is taking shape

[Avicenna]

No more like 110 million + and u think u can do away with few squadrons of those with $4.5 billion?
Yea keep living in your fantasies.

Not a few squadrons.

But 16 aircraft for one.

Yea.

Reasonable given what’s happening with the economy. (Especially Gripen C)

Whether there is internal political will and vision as to do such a thing is the issue.

 

[Michael Corleone]

The foreign minister thinks he is buying tomatoes.

exactly what i was thinking... he spoke like he was offered sabzi in the bazaar...
i'm telling y'all you need a professional businessman for negotiations... what better place other than to look for someone from bikrampur... they got business runnning in their genes.... ex. Fakkurddin Ahmed

Speed is an important factor in determining a fighter jet. JF-17 has a drag problem at take-off, it takes much longer time to reach a certain speed and height. Its maximum speed is also 1.6 Mach. In comparison, F-16 has a speed of 2.4 Mach. BAF should choose other platforms. JF-17 is also not popular with the Chinese airforce.

dude mach 1.6 should make your fighter to offshoot into bay of bengal in 10 minutes... why is speed an important factor other than to run? isn't thrust a much important factor? along with instantaneous turn rates, angle of attack, payload?

 

[Avicenna]

exactly what i was thinking... he spoke like he was offered sabzi in the bazaar...
i'm telling y'all you need a professional businessman for negotiations... what better place other than to look for someone from bikrampur... they got business runnning in their genes.... ex. Fakkurddin Ahmed

The talent and individuals with aptitude are definitely there.

You just got to get them to the positions they need to be in.

exactly what i was thinking... he spoke like he was offered sabzi in the bazaar...
i'm telling y'all you need a professional businessman for negotiations... what better place other than to look for someone from bikrampur... they got business runnning in their genes.... ex. Fakkurddin Ahmed


dude mach 1.6 should make your fighter to offshoot into bay of bengal in 10 minutes... why is speed an important factor other than to run? isn't thrust a much important factor? along with instantaneous turn rates, angle of attack, payload?

The days of chasing speed were done decades ago.

There are a lot more important factors to consider in a given fighter aircraft.

 

[Michael Corleone]

Also, its certainly good enough for the BAF if it’s good enough for the PAF.

this is my views too... yes the fighter has some geopolitical shortcomings for us but if it's good for PAF... it's good for BAF... if indians who a couple of days ago wouldn't touch the ground were thrashed by jf-17s... who are we to mock it especially given how little aviation/ science knowledge some of us possess

So that ONLY leaves Western types.

and yes.. imo putting all eggs in one basket will leave us trapped... we can't buy all russian because they'll talk for the side that throws money at them... chinese will rather support buddhists before muslims even though they're atheist and the west... well they'll stick to the moral high ground... and if bd really wants to maintain their shitty friendship to all policy.. it will need to diversify...
jets from the west... subs from the russians and frigates from the chinese....

 

[UKBengali]

No more like 110 million + and u think u can do away with few squadrons of those with $4.5 billion?
Yea keep living in your fantasies.

No 85 million is the flyaway cost per plane. You are confusing with Typhoon probably.
It is also very cheap to operate and maintain and so BD can afford 1-2 squadrons over the next 5 years.
Also BD defence spending is growing very fast - just 10 years ago it was only 1-1.5 billion.

 

[JohnWick]

No 85 million is the flyaway cost per plane. You are confusing with Typhoon probably.
It is also very cheap to operate and maintain and so BD can afford 1-2 squadrons over the next 5 years.
Also BD defence spending is growing very fast - just 10 years ago it was only 1-1.5 billion.

Well Somtimes.... I also dreamt of getting
Dozens of J-31s.

 

[UKBengali]

Well Somtimes.... I also dreamt of getting
Dozens of J-31s.

Do you have anything useful to add?

You really think that BD is so poor that it cannot operate 1-2 squadrons of Gripen Es within the next 5 years?

Please enlighten me with a detailed mathematical breakdown - to make it a little easier for you countries can get loans to buy fighters in order to spread capital repayments over many years.

 

[UKBengali]

Not a few squadrons.

But 16 aircraft for one.

Yea.

Reasonable given what’s happening with the economy. (Especially Gripen C)

Whether there is internal political will and vision as to do such a thing is the issue.

I would say BD can afford even 2 squadrons of Gripen E if it did not buy anything else in the next 5 years. BD economy is set to boom for many more years to come and defence spending is likely to rise even higher in the future.


Edit - Sweden currently spends 6.6 billion US dollars on defence spending. Since they manufacture the fighter they will get it cheaper than BD, now with a defence budget only around 30% higher than BD they are able to order 60 Gripen Es. Those who say it is unaffordable for BD to be able to afford 1-2 squadrons of Gripen Es over the next 5 years simply do not understand mathematics.

 

[Avicenna]

I would say BD can afford even 2 squadrons of Gripen E if it did not buy anything else in the next 5 years. BD economy is set to boom for many more years to come and defence spending is likely to rise even higher in the future.

Honestly I like to be conservative and underestimate.

A small batch to start out with and then adding later would be like the way to go.

The choice should be made with that in mind.

Sort of like Brazil with an initial 36 Gripens with plans for as high as 120.

Bangladesh can start out with a squadrons worth and add from there.

But also keep in mind if it’s an all western fleet, the air force will have to be scaled down.

Unless a cheaper type is procured to maintain numbers.

 

[UKBengali]

Honestly I like to be conservative and underestimate.

A small batch to start out with and then adding later would be like the way to go.

The choice should be made with that in mind.

Sort of like Brazil with an initial 36 Gripens with plans for as high as 120.

Bangladesh can start out with a squadrons worth and add from there.

But also keep in mind if it’s an all western fleet, the air force will have to be scaled down. Unless a cheaper type is procured to maintain numbers.

Yes order a single squadron first with an option for 16-24 more is the way to go.

Would BAF have to get less fighters if it orders Gripen Es rather than Mig-29s and Su-30s?

I am not sure as the extra money you pay up front for the plane will be more than offset by less maintenance and operations cost. Not only will BAF burn a lot more fuel on Mig-29 and hugely more on SU-30, it would also have to replace key components like engines a lot quicker.

There is also something called "availability rate" and Russian aircraft tend to come in at the 2/3rd mark whereas you are looking at 80%+ for Western fighters like Gripen E.

 

[Avicenna]

Yes order a single squadron first with an option for 16-24 more is the way to go.

Would BAF have to get less fighters if it orders Gripen Es rather than Mig-29s and Su-30s?

I am not sure as the extra money you pay up front for the plane will be more than offset by less maintenance and operations cost. Not only will BAF burn a lot more fuel on Mig-29 and hugely more on SU-30, it would also have to replace key components like engines a lot quicker.

There is also something called "availability rate" and Russian aircraft tend to come in at the 2/3rd mark whereas you are looking at 80%+ for Western fighters like Gripen E.

Yes agreed.

Also, it looks like BAF is getting an additional batch of C-130J from RAF.

Any word on how many beyond the original 2?

 

[mb444]

I would say BD can afford even 2 squadrons of Gripen E if it did not buy anything else in the next 5 years. BD economy is set to boom for many more years to come and defence spending is likely to rise even higher in the future.


Edit - Sweden currently spends 6.6 billion US dollars on defence spending. Since they manufacture the fighter they will get it cheaper than BD, now with a defence budget only around 30% higher than BD they are able to order 60 Gripen Es. Those who say it is unaffordable for BD to be able to afford 1-2 squadrons of Gripen Es over the next 5 years simply do not understand mathematics.

A janes article from 2012 on comparative running costs of differing jets. Gripen here is not E series.

https://www.stratpost.com/gripen-operational-cost-lowest-of-all-western-fighters-janes/

I expect series E cost to be higher. Also is the E series ready to be sold? I did not think it was production ready yet.


Is F16 not better in so far as it has history behind?

I agree with the godfather BD needs to diversify its defense sourcing.

 

[UKBengali]

A janes article from 2012 on comparative running costs of differing jets. Gripen here is not E series.

https://www.stratpost.com/gripen-operational-cost-lowest-of-all-western-fighters-janes/

I expect series E cost to be higher. Also is the E series ready to be sold? I did not think it was production ready yet.

Yes it is in production - 60 for Sweden and 36 for Brazil. Series E will still cost less than latest version of F-16 to operate due to smaller engine with less fuel consumption etc.

Saab can produce 24 planes per year and I am sure that if BD shows interest for 32-40 aircraft eventually they will even delay their own orders to get the sale.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...-serial-production-as-saab-targets-sa-455831/

"launched serial production of the fighter early this year."

"The Swedish air force's commander also recently indicated his service's interest in potentially acquiring another 60 of the type,"


So Sweden with 30% more defence budget than BD is potentially planning for 120 Gripen Es and BD cannot afford 1-2 squadrons of Gripen Es?!

Do these people even realise that BD economy and defence spending is growing at roughly 8% a year while Sweden does 2-3%? In 10 years time, BD could even be spending more than Sweden on defence.

Sometimes I wonder how totally mathematically inept people think that their opinion on mathematic topics are in the least bit credible!


F-16 has a major problem in that you become US slave if you buy it. They will withhold support, armaments and parts if you do not toe their line.
At least with Gripen E, as long as you get initial clearance to buy the aircraft because of the US engine, US has little leeway to pressure you other than refusing new engine after around 10 years.

 

[Arthur]

To play the quantitative game JFT was the best option out there. Too bad Tarzan Airforce got them.

Flankers are out too. At least the Su 30 is. A strong anti MIG lobby means Mig 35 is as good as gone.

All this lefts us with J 10. But for some reason, I always had this suspicion that J 10 might not be available. Won't trust until they are flying over my house!

So guys, you know where this leaves us! Look west!! That's where our natural alliance is. You know, BAF was always melancholic on losing the scope to play with Western birds post '71!!

 

[PDF]

Everyone, please refer to the country and its citizens with proper name and manner. Please do not degrade the forum and respect others even if its your enemy.
Thank You!

On-Topic:

BAF needs to go western

I would myself go for Western option anytime. The quality is second to none. Sadly, finance realizations always limits the prospect...atleast for PAF.
But, TBH, J-10C is itself a beast. I can assure that it won't disappoint anyone.
On, JF-17, I won't speak as my views will always be biased. And, Myanmar has got them, so the prospect are even more bleak not that PM Hasina being in power already stalled any hopes of it getting in BAF inventory.
Lastly, no offense but please just purchase your fighter jets. The long wait is frustrating.