What's new

A Saudi Rave Sparks Debate Over Kingdom’s Cultural Transformation

Status
Not open for further replies.

-=virus=-

SENIOR MEMBER
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
7,263
Reaction score
-44
Country
India
Location
India
JEDDAH, Saudi Arabia—Pulsating purple lights played across the traditional coral stone- and-wood facades of buildings in the center of this ancient Saudi port city on the Red Sea while electronic music boomed and young men and women in jeans and glittery tops danced with glow sticks.

The recent music festival in Jeddah’s Al-Balad neighborhood drew an audience of around 25,000 celebrating young people. It also stirred criticism of a rapid cultural shift in the kingdom being pushed by its day-to-day ruler, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman.

The 37-year-old heir to the throne has moved to permit women to drive, disempowered the morality police and opened the country to public entertainments from pop concerts to movies and sporting events that were once banned in the name of strict adherence to the rules of Islam.

im-693173

Al-Balad, the historic district of Jeddah, was the site of the Balad Beat music festival.

Many of the changes have been popular. Few have provoked the kind of public criticism that has followed the recent Jeddah festival, called Balad Beast, which turned the streets of Al-Balad into an open-air concert. Yet people are debating whether things are changing too much, too fast.

For some, the juxtaposition of traditional and modern symbolized the new Saudi Arabia. “You have to be open to new things,” said Lola Mohammad, a 23-year-old accountant. She said the festival was an event that “honors my heritage but also embraces the future.”

Others found the combination—in a neighborhood that is a Unesco World Heritage site—disturbing. “It is so upsetting that this place, which is so closely tied with our Islamic history and traditions, is now a stage for rowdiness, neon lights and bumping music,” said Hassan Ahmad, 31, an Al-Balad merchant.

It is a conversation playing out on social media and around dinner tables across the kingdom.

Balad Beast featured some musicians from abroad including the American rapper Busta Rhymes, but was largely local talent. The stage was set up to look like the facade of an old Al-Balad home. The aroma of frankincense filled the air. Servers in traditional attire offered coffee, dates and shawarma sandwiches.

Moayad Alnefaie, a rapper and Jeddah native, belted out Arabic rap verses while strutting in a traditional Saudi men’s robe and headdress, his signature look. “Make some noise, Jeddah,” he shouted out in English to the hundreds of people singing along to his lyrics.

“I love that they stayed true to Al-Balad’s real identity,” said Sara Khaled, a 31-year old consultant visiting her hometown, Jeddah, from the capital, Riyadh. “You get the party scene but also Ramadan vibes,” she said, referring to the annual festival in Al-Balad for Islam’s holy month.

At the same time, the event pushed the limits of what is acceptable in Saudi Arabia. Some women eschewed the abaya—a loose and long outer garment—for metallic and shimmery variations, while others wore oversize jackets that covered tight jeans and crop tops.

The loud, largely Western music, flashing lights and nontraditional crowd felt to some like a foreign-inspired intrusion into one of Saudi Arabia’s oldest and most traditional neighborhoods.

“Honestly it’s really weird seeing all this,” said Khalid Asri, 20, a marketing student who attended the electronic-music festival. “Having this type of setup in the middle of all these historical buildings feels awkward. It just doesn’t work.”


Prince Mohammed, who runs the country day to day for his father, King Salman, has said he is trying to shake up Saudi society. About four decades ago the monarchy cut a deal that gave ultraconservative religious authorities wide control over culture in exchange for clerics’ loyalty to the crown.

The deal helped stem a tide of political extremism in Saudi Arabia that had been sweeping the Middle East but resulted in the kingdom’s becoming one of the most closed off places in the world. Prince Mohammed has sidelined religious authorities, sometimes jailing them, in a bid to open back up.

Prince Mohammed said in 2018 that women aren’t required to wear abayas, the traditional cloak women wear throughout the Gulf region, but there is still an expectation of modest dress.

“I know they said we don’t have to wear abayas anymore, but that doesn’t mean we have to go the other extreme,” says Nada Abdullah, a hairstylist from Riyadh.

Even the idea of music has rubbed many conservative Saudis the wrong way. After a long prohibition, Saudi Arabia reintroduced music in public spaces in recent years, with concert halls and open-mic nights quickly filling up.

The government planned to start music classes in public schools, but there was a backlash among parents to the idea. The government delayed the plans, citing the need to train teachers.

At Al Ula, an ancient desert trading post that the kingdom has begun championing as a tourist destination, a video of mostly Western female bloggers dressed in skimpy bikinis went viral on Saudi social media and caused outrage.

There is no reliable polling in Saudi Arabia. Ali Shihabi, a Saudi political commentator often aligned with Prince Mohammed’s views, said the popularity of events such as Balad Beast and other new public entertainment options needs to be judged on the attendance of tens of thousands of Saudis.

“I think there is a little bit of shock therapy in the government’s strategy because it is messaging society that you can be creative, that you can be more open, that you can experiment,” said Mr. Shihabi.

 
.
The opposition will not come so much from the world's Muslims but from the typical modern Indian Muslims who are mullahs and burqis. Look at their ugly faces and their biryani-filled bodies :
cinama.jpg


These haraamis marching through Bombay in 2021 in protest of Saudia government opening cinemas in Madinah did not utter a squeak when the same Saudia government ten years previous participated in the biggest military invasion in history - 30+ government militaries of NATO and GCC plus Al Qaeda and so-called Muslim Brotherhood, the invasion of the finest Muslim-majority society in the modern world, Libyan Jamahiriya. In fact some of these biryani-gorging fatsos thundering down the roads would have fought alongside that NATO-led alliance against the Libyan Jamahiriya whose guide was Muammar Gaddafi, the last imam of all Muslims, yet these dogs are chanting "Saudi-Yahoodi sem-2-sem" ?

These filths consider watching a female on-screen against their morality which means they hate females really so I want even Modi government to export these nonsenses along with Angry Indian Burqa Girl Muskan bibi and her self-misogynist female friends to the glorious land of the female-hating ghey Taliban and the Afghan women should leave that place to go to maybe Bangladesh, Russia, Syria etc.
 
. .
Muammar Gaddafi, the last imam of all Muslims
lolwut ?

-----------------------------------------------------

anyway, good development, nice to see Saudis become less insanely conservative and that their young people can freely mingle among themselves, enjoy concerts and so on. I know this one Saudi guy, he's always all gushing about MBS, he's a total MBS bhakt lol .. for apparently bringing in societal reforms, opening up, embracing mordernity.. etc
 
.
lolwut ?

-----------------------------------------------------

anyway, good development, nice to see Saudis become less insanely conservative and that their young people can freely mingle among themselves, enjoy concerts and so on. I know this one Saudi guy, he's always all gushing about MBS, he's a total MBS bhakt lol .. for apparently bringing in societal reforms, opening up, embracing mordernity.. etc

Exactly. MBS knew that this is his ticket to longevity after all the palace intrigue that it took to put him where he needed to be. Young people essentially want to party and want more freedoms more often than not. He delivered. Now he's wildly popular at home, at least in the most relevant segment, and his rule is pretty secure.
 
.
Exactly. MBS knew that this is his ticket to longevity after all the palace intrigue that it took to put him where he needed to be. Young people essentially want to party and want more freedoms more often than not. He delivered. Now he's wildly popular at home, at least in the most relevant segment, and his rule is pretty secure.
More than just societal reforms which get talked about the most, he's diversifying their economy big time, defence, tech, tourism.. that guy wants a big slice of all those pies. Smart, business minded ,entrepreneurial, and highly mercurial banda hai MBS... I like that guy.

Saudis got a lot of soft power within the muslim world obviously, but also a lot of hard cash and economic leverage otherwise with all that oil monies. Also mostly a beacon of stability in that region, nevermind Yemen. Saudi forces need some practice too every now and then :P

Very happy to see Indian and Saudi ties grow.

 
.
I interact with many young proffessionals from Saudi. A lot of them want to cut the role of the clergy and traditionalists in the day to day running of their country and I can't really blame them. The religious clergy really hasn't set any great standards of progress in this day and age.
 
.
MBS would be remembered as Ataturk of twenty first century :lol:
 
.
the fk? you don't eat biryani? go eat your paneer or whatever inferior fake meat substitute, Biryani taste good. lol

Yes I eat paneer and not because I see it as meat substitute but it is an item in itself. I stopped eating meat a year ago though I eat egg because egg is the best food. Even cats will eat the yolk of a hard-boiled egg and cats are teachers.

Humans have no right to slaughter another animal for food. It is not like the animal asked to be killed and devoured. When humans have plant agriculture, egg agriculture and milk agriculture, other than herbs and honey as additions there is no need to eat meat. Humans killing each other is called murder and if a human eats another it is called cannibalism. Shouldn't a similar definition be applied if humans eat animals especially when humans have the ability to grow food or derive food ( egg, milk, herbs, honey ) ?

It is irrational to continue eating meat because of religious tradition or geographic tradition or to continue the Capitalist meat industry.


Yes. For example follow this convo between Muammar and the former Saudi king Abdullah :

The subtitles in this vid no longer work but IIRC Muammar is telling Abdullah that his country was created by Westerners which angers the Saud and he threatens Muammar with a grave and tells him that he knows who created Muammar to which the Libyans laugh :

This one is a few years later and a continuation. Has English subtitles and is where he declares his imam'ship :

MBS would be remembered as Ataturk of twenty first century :lol:

Incorrect. Jamahir would be, Ataturk and much more. :enjoy:
 
.
I eat egg because egg is the best food.

Why are you killing unborn chickens?

Yes I eat paneer

Why do you use the milk of a cow thats meant for a calf? did the Cow consent? Go full vegan coward. 😂

Even cats will eat the yolk of a hard-boiled egg

And Cats will hunt and eat their prey.

cats are teachers.

Cats are carnivores? congratulations, you just contradicted yourself. and who the fk takes an animal as an example for humans. Clown *** Psuedo Philosophical BS. Animals at times kill and cannibalize their own. Who the fk is dumb enough to imitate and follow animalistic behavior as a world view.
Humans have no right to slaughter another animal for food.

And you have no right to slaughter plants. Thats a living organism as well. You need to start producing your nutrition via photosynthesis. lmao

Shouldn't a similar definition be applied if humans eat animals

No because all Organisms who don't work on photosynthesis consume lesser organism. Its why the bear eats fish from the river or scavenges for honey or eats fruit.

It is irrational to continue eating meat

Meat taste good, you should try a prime rib A5 Wagyu, its sublime. lol

Human need Protein and Meat is an efficient source, and a necessity of growth. Its why all you mofos look like 5'6 malnourished scrawny pigme men. lmao

because of religious tradition or geographic tradition

Lmao, you are the only one, ironically not eating meat b/c of geographic and religious tradition. Projection much? lol
the Capitalist meat industry.

Yeah as opposed to the socialist collectivist vegetable industry? You know there was a meat production industry in the soviet union too right? 🤡 Any why stop at vegetarianism? if its "ethics", go full vegan. Fake *** Hindutwa mofos trying to pass themselves off as Commies. lol
 
.
Yes. For example follow this convo between Muammar and the former Saudi king Abdullah :

The subtitles in this vid no longer work but IIRC Muammar is telling Abdullah that his country was created by Westerners which angers the Saud and he threatens Muammar with a grave and tells him that he knows who created Muammar to which the Libyans laugh :
don't speak arabic..


This one is a few years later and a continuation. Has English subtitles and is where he declares his imam'ship :
some bits are muted, are they ?

anyway, hoga... aap India pw dhyan dijiye !
 
.
The opposition will not come so much from the world's Muslims but from the typical modern Indian Muslims who are mullahs and burqis. Look at their ugly faces and their biryani-filled bodies :
cinama.jpg


These haraamis marching through Bombay in 2021 in protest of Saudia government opening cinemas in Madinah did not utter a squeak when the same Saudia government ten years previous participated in the biggest military invasion in history - 30+ government militaries of NATO and GCC plus Al Qaeda and so-called Muslim Brotherhood, the invasion of the finest Muslim-majority society in the modern world, Libyan Jamahiriya. In fact some of these biryani-gorging fatsos thundering down the roads would have fought alongside that NATO-led alliance against the Libyan Jamahiriya whose guide was Muammar Gaddafi, the last imam of all Muslims, yet these dogs are chanting "Saudi-Yahoodi sem-2-sem" ?

These filths consider watching a female on-screen against their morality which means they hate females really so I want even Modi government to export these nonsenses along with Angry Indian Burqa Girl Muskan bibi and her self-misogynist female friends to the glorious land of the female-hating ghey Taliban and the Afghan women should leave that place to go to maybe Bangladesh, Russia, Syria etc.
lol, these guys are kind of retarded.

What Saudi Arabia is doing is their internal affairs. Are they Saudi citizens?

They should just care about their country which is India.
 
.
lol, these guys are kind of retarded.

What Saudi Arabia is doing is their internal affairs. Are they Saudi citizens?

They should just care about their country which is India.

Unfortunately most modern Indian Muslims are more Arab than the Arabs themselves. :lol:

In my neighborhood I have seen a few young fellows going to the classes at the mosque to memorize the Quran ( memorization in a language they don't understand and not reading it ) wearing the GCC Arab male dress the thawb. Some older men too wear it. Why are desi men wearing the thawb in South India when the Arabs don't wear the thawb in London and Moscow ? :lol:Cringe ! This is why these biryani-gorging Indian fatsos are outraging in Bombay about something that Saudis have agreed to do in Saudia. :rofl:

Most modern Indian Muslims have become ritualists for whom the public show of fake-piety, dress code etc is more important than believing in the real, liberational tenets of Islam. They will prohibit their daughter from marrying even a Muslim of her choice but will do three hajjs every five years by taking loan on interest-basis and when they return from the hajj every time they remain the same socio-economically deprived people in a Capitalist system run by the Hindutvadis locally and the Crusaders influencing from outside. :lol: Idiots ! And India has the largest number of burqa wearers in the world.

Fake *** Hindutwa mofos trying to pass themselves off as Commies. lol

Hindutva ? You are on the forum for the last two years and don't know that I am a Muslim ? And me being a Communist am the ultimate Muslim. :) Islam in its original form was close to Communism. I quote two Islamic scholars from my thread from 2016 whose OP is written by Pakistani journalist Nadeem Paracha and is about Communist and Socialist activism among Muslims since the early 1900s :
During the same period (1920s-30s), another (though lesser known) Islamic scholar in undivided India got smitten by the 1917 Russian revolution and Marxism.

Hafiz Rahman Sihwarwl saw Islam and Marxism sharing five elements in common: (1) prohibition of the accumulation of wealth in the hands of the privileged classes (2) organisation of the economic structure of the state to ensure social welfare (3) equality of opportunity for all human beings (4) priority of collective social interest over individual privilege and (5) prevention of the permanentising of class structure through social revolution.

The motivations for many of these themes he drew from the Qur’an, which he understood as seeking to create an economic order in which the rich pay excessive, though voluntary taxes (Zakat) to minimise differences in living standards.

In the areas that Sihwarwl saw Islam and communism diverge were Islam’s sanction of private ownership within certain limits, and in its refusal to recognise an absolutely classless basis of society.

He suggested that Islam, with its prohibition of the accumulation of wealth, is able to control the class structure through equality of opportunity.

Basically, both Sindhi and Sihwarwl had stumbled upon an Islamic concept of the social democratic welfare state.

Building upon the initial thoughts of Sindhi and Sihwarwl were perhaps South Asia’s two most ardent and articulate supporters and theoreticians of Islamic Socilaism: Ghulam Ahmed Parvez and Dr. Khalifa Abdul Hakim.

Parvez was a prominent ‘Quranist’, or an Islamic scholar who insisted that for the Muslims to make progress in the modern world, Islamic thought and laws should be entirely based on the modern interpretations of the Qu’ran and on the complete rejection of the hadith (sayings of the Prophet and his companions based on hearsay and compiled over a 100 years after the Prophet’s demise).

After studying traditional Muslim texts, as well as Sufism, Parvez claimed that almost all hadiths were fabrications by those who wanted Islam to seem like an intolerant faith and by ancient Muslim kings who used these hadiths to give divine legitimacy to their tyrannical rules.

Parvez also insisted that Muslims should spend more time studying the modern sciences instead of wasting their energies on fighting out ancient sectarian conflicts or ignoring the true egalitarian and enlightening spirit of the Qu’ran by indulging in multiple rituals handed down to them by ancient ulema, clerics and compilers of the hadith.

Understandably, Parvez was right away attacked by conservative Islamic scholars and political outfits.

But this didn’t stop famous Muslim philosopher and poet, Muhammad Iqbal, to befriend the young scholar and then introduce him to the future founder of Pakistan, Muhammad Ali Jinnah.

Jinnah appointed Parvez to edit a magazine, Talu-e-Islam. It was set-up to propagate the creation of a separate Muslim country and to also answer the attacks that Jinnah’s All India Muslim League had begun to face from conservative Islamic parties and ulema who accused the League of being a pseudo-Muslim organisation and Jinnah for being too westernised and ‘lacking correct Islamic behavior.’

Apart from continuing to author books and commentaries on the Qu’ran, Parvez wrote a series of articles in Talu-e-Islam that propagated a more socialistic view of the holy book.

In a series of essays for the magazine he used verses from the Qu’ran, incidents from the faith’s history and insights from the writings of Muhammad Iqbal to claim:

The clergy and conservative ulema have hijacked Islam.

They are agents of the rich people and promoters of uncontrolled Capitalism.

Socialism best enforces Qur’anic dictums on property, justice and distribution of wealth.

Islam’s main mission was the eradication of all injustices and cruelties from society. It was a socio-economic movement, and the Prophet was a leader seeking to put an end to the capitalist exploitation of the Quraysh merchants and the corrupt bureaucracy of Byzantium and Persia.

According to the Qur’an, Muslims have three main responsibilities: seeing, hearing and sensing through the agency of the mind. Consequently, real knowledge is based on empirically verifiable observation, or through the role of science.

Poverty is the punishment of God and deserved by those who ignore science.

In Muslim/Islamic societies, science, as well as agrarian reform should play leading roles in developing an industrialised economy.

A socialist path is a correction of the medieval distortion of Islam through Shari’a.


Parvez joined the government after the creation of Pakistan in 1947, but after Jinnah’s death in 1948, he was sidelined until he resigned from his post in 1956.

Yeah as opposed to the socialist collectivist vegetable industry? You know there was a meat production industry in the soviet union too right?

There was but I need not follow every thing that the USSR did. I admire USSR for its development and system within and its support for progressiveness outside and the fact that the name USSR ( Union of Soviet Socialist Republics ) did not denote a society where the number of republics were fixed but it signified the hope, the ideas and the efforts of uniting the world some day under Communism.

Human need Protein and Meat is an efficient source, and a necessity of growth. Its why all you mofos look like 5'6 malnourished scrawny pigme men. lmao

1. As I said, egg is the best food. Until the early months of 2014 I weighed just 45 kgs for my height. Quite underweight. But near my then office there was a dhaba ( dhaba is a traditional Punjabi eatery ) and I had them bring me two egg parathas every day. Egg paratha is omelette between two Indian rotis ( flat breads ), cooked in a certain way. These are the grandly prepared ones :
Egg-paratha-hero.jpg

anda-paratha.jpg


The ones I ate were very simple, no vegetables in the omelette but the dhaba sent along mint chutney as accompaniment :
Chutneys-chutneys-7106.jpg


So I ate two egg parathas for five days a week for three months. My weight changed from 45 kgs to 75 kgs, an addition of 30 kgs ! Though now I must reduce maybe five kgs.

2. Some Indian men of dashingness and beauty :

Karan Suchak. He is among the most good-looking men in the world and a great actor :
karan-suchak.jpg

do-not-limit-yourself-to-the-gym-when-it-comes-to-workout-karan-suchak.jpg

Karan-Suchak-2-e1645813959380.jpg


In the serial "Thoda sa baadal, thoda sa paani" he plays a doctor who is serious in attitude but is natural, passionate, simple and commits but also can have fun. I thought that was me :

Arjun Rampal, a famous model of the 1990s but later became an actor :
Arjun-Rampal-7.jpg

arjun-rampal-rock-on-2_640x480_71478272498.jpg


Next photo is too much muscle. Doesn't look nice :
080921015616-613873a8e37e2arjun-rampal-vidyut-jammwal.jpeg


p04kcbhz.jpg

1608024231_arjunrampal640.jpg


Saif Ali Khan, actor :
03Saif-l.jpg

Saif-Ali.jpg


Saif's father Mansoor who was once India's youngest cricket captain ( I don't like cricket, football etc ) was called Tiger because he was involved in a road accident in Britain, lost his right eye because a glass piece pierced it and even after he got out of the hospital he couldn't hold a glass but later he continued playing cricket with just one eye. Other than that my inclusion here is he being a dashing chap :
portrait-of-mansoor-ali-khan-pataudi-nawab-of-pataudi-and-right-handed-batsman-and-a-right.jpg

mak_pataudi_20111003.jpg

7160628ef50f321d4f6e2507c422ae64.jpg

mansoor-ali-khan-pataudi-32_092211072011.jpg

05858b57019b37a4962024095cbdd397


I myself am not a six-footer but am quite stylish and dashing, if I say so myself. :D

Lmao, you are the only one, ironically not eating meat b/c of geographic and religious tradition. Projection much? lol

OK, this is answered above by me not being Hindu and not being a vegetarian Hindu.

No because all Organisms who don't work on photosynthesis consume lesser organism. Its why the bear eats fish from the river or scavenges for honey or eats fruit.

Mr. Bear does not manage a poultry farm, a wheat field, sunflower field, salt extraction, pepper farm etc hence Mr. Bear must fish.

Cats are carnivores? congratulations, you just contradicted yourself. and who the fk takes an animal as an example for humans. Clown *** Psuedo Philosophical BS. Animals at times kill and cannibalize their own. Who the fk is dumb enough to imitate and follow animalistic behavior as a world view.

I did not say "animals", I said "cats". The cat is at the top of the intelligence layers along with highly intelligent humans.

And then :
5f180fcf67b2ed12551b6c62030dbf63.jpg

2022-12-29-123903_1024x768_scrot.png


And Cats will hunt and eat their prey.

That is the way of the cats but cats do not torture.

Why do you use the milk of a cow thats meant for a calf? did the Cow consent? Go full vegan coward. 😂

1. Calves have lived healthily without the full load of the cow's milk. :)

2. Veganism is for the followers of this idiot, charlatan, Hindutvadi, delusionary believer in made-up international history of Hinduism :
sadhguru.jpg


Why are you killing unborn chickens?

Egg is not a sentient item in itself.

don't speak arabic..

Neither do I but I have watched it when it had English subtitles and I described the gist of it.

some bits are muted, are they ?

The host chairperson, the Qatari emir, muted the mic.

anyway, hoga... aap India pw dhyan dijiye !

Sure, working on it to contribute to bringing progressiveness to India.
 
. . .
Status
Not open for further replies.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom