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A Russian delegation travels to Egypt to discuss the Mistral equipment package

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MOSCOW, April 18 (Xinhua)
The Russian delegation left for Egypt to take part in the next phase of negotiations on the delivery of communications and control equipment to the Mistral helicopter carriers, a source in the technical cooperation system between Russia and other countries told Tass news agency on Tuesday.

"The negotiations are continuing," the source said. "The Russian delegation left for Egypt to discuss with the Egyptian side the possible agreement with the technical proposals available on communications and control equipment."

TASS has no official confirmation of this information.

. It is not unlikely that Russia will deliver the modified Kamov Ka-52K helicopters to work on the deck of the Ka-52 war crocodile specifically developed to operate on Mistral.

Sergei Ivanov, chief of staff of the Kremlin in October 2015, said Egypt could buy Russian helicopters and equipment worth $ 1 billion for its new warships.

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Earlier reports said Moscow and Cairo were discussing the delivery of communications and control systems to the amphibious assault mestral vessels

Mistral, which Egypt received this year, was initially aimed at Russia. Requested by the Russian Defense Ministry in the summer of 2011 but in 2014 froze Paris delivery of helicopter carriers to Russia because of Moscow's position of Ukrainian developments. In 2015, Russia and France agreed to cancel the contract, and shortly after the Amphitheater attack ships were purchased by Egypt.

The Mistral helicopter carriers have a displacement of 21 tons, a length of 210 meters, a speed of 18 knots and a range of up to 20,000 miles.

The helicopter carrier will accommodate 450 people and a crew of 180. It carries 16 helicopters, six that can work simultaneously on the flight deck.

http://tass.com/defense/941825



Russia offers Egypt modern armament, electronic warfare systems for Mistral ships


More:
http://tass.com/defense/913048
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russians wanted an AESA radar for katran similar with the mig-35's one and they couldn't make both of them till now so i'd prefer looking for other alternatives from now
 
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russians wanted an AESA radar for katran similar with the mig-35's one and they couldn't make both of them till now so i'd prefer looking for other alternatives from now

Exactly :lol:
 
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russians wanted an AESA radar for katran similar with the mig-35's one and they couldn't make both of them till now so i'd prefer looking for other alternatives from now

The problem is that there really isn't much out there in terms of a carrier capable attack helicopter with such lethality as the Katran. I can only think of one that comes close and might even be better but would come with a lot of strings attached, and that's the AH-1Z Viper. Basically the 4-blade naval version of the Super Cobra.

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It can fire the AIM-9 like the Ka-52K can fire the R-73 and carry similar weapons including Hellfires and has folding rotors (which is a top criteria of course) and has an AESA radar. The 2 advantages that the Katran has are the dual, counter-rotating blades (much easier and probably more maneuverable) AND an ejection system. The lack of the AESA is a big issue, for sure, since the current radar on the K has maximum rage of 10 miles which is ridiculous compared to the 100+ miles the AESA would give it. But what other options are there, really?
 
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The problem is that there really isn't much out there in terms of a carrier capable attack helicopter with such lethality as the Katran. I can only think of one that comes close and might even be better but would come with a lot of strings attached, and that's the AH-1Z Viper. Basically the 4-blade naval version of the Super Cobra.

330835_26973152.jpg


It can fire the AIM-9 like the Ka-52K can fire the R-73 and carry similar weapons including Hellfires and has folding rotors (which is a top criteria of course) and has an AESA radar. The 2 advantages that the Katran has are the dual, counter-rotating blades (much easier and probably more maneuverable) AND an ejection system. The lack of the AESA is a big issue, for sure, since the current radar on the K has maximum rage of 10 miles which is ridiculous compared to the 100+ miles the AESA would give it. But what other options are there, really?


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i think the main idea of the katran is it can take more roles than other naval attacking hell as the radar is similar with a fighter radar with +100 km range & AESA technology that allows katran to have Anti Surface Missions with the KH-35 + air - air missions & land attacking you can just say its a kind of slow fighter

but viper can't give you that kind of multi-role

sadly there is no alternatives for katran right now but maybe there is alternatives for the missing technology ( Radar )
 
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i think the main idea of the katran is it can take more roles than other naval attacking hell as the radar is similar with a fighter radar with +100 km range & AESA technology that allows katran to have Anti Surface Missions with the KH-35 + air - air missions & land attacking you can just say its a kind of slow fighter

but viper can't give you that kind of multi-role

sadly there is no alternatives for katran right now but maybe there is alternatives for the missing technology ( Radar )
China has ready and operational AESA radars for small, medium and large fighters.. Egypt can look at them, since the Russians are open for other systems integrations..but I guess the Russian AESAs are almost ready which justifies the waiting by Egypt..remember that the first 2 Mig-35 were supposed to be delivered in 2016 as well as some Alligators..but nothing has been delivered yet..
 
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China has ready and operational AESA radars for small, medium and large fighters.. Egypt can look at them, since the Russians are open for other systems integrations..but I guess the Russian AESAs are almost ready which justifies the waiting by Egypt..remember that the first 2 Mig-35 were supposed to be delivered in 2016 as well as some Alligators..but nothing has been delivered yet..

honestly i don't trust Chinese technology specially radars & i think Army don't so,
russia haven't finished the ZHUK-AE AESA for the mig 35 yet ( saying that they will in 2018 ) & they ordered their first 18 migs with ZHUK ME doppler radar & egypt will have their first 20 fighter with the same one + they have problems in the katran radar & not ready yet

i wish egypt could solve this issue with france as their radars tech is proven & have good relations with egy & they already collaborated with egy in kamovs ( french ECO-52 on KA-52)
 
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Sea Alligators and may be some other choppers. I would recommend going for EU Choppers with Russian Attack Alligators.
 
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i think the main idea of the katran is it can take more roles than other naval attacking hell

When you said "look for other alternatives" I thought you were referring to other naval attack helicopters, but you were referring to replacing the radar only on the Katran and Alligators. I think they should wait for the AESA to be ready and then insist on a upgrade through the original tender agreement they would sign for the contract. If it will be the Zhuk-AE, it will still need to be a modified version to fit and work on helos instead of the fighter-built radar. But still, I think it's better to stick with the same and more compatible equipment designed for that purpose than shop for a different make and try to fit it. I think that is much more difficult and also costly.

as the radar is similar with a fighter radar with +100 km range & AESA technology that allows katran to have Anti Surface Missions with the KH-35 + air - air missions & land attacking you can just say its a kind of slow fighter

The Russians always overdo the capabilities of their equipment, at least before they're available. For example, they claimed that with the Arbalet radar (which is supposed to be the Russian equivalent of the Apache Longbow,) not only will the Katran be able to fire that huge, KH-35 missile (which is subsonic like a cruise missile) but also the mach-2 KH-31! lol. For a helicopter to fire a supersonic missile, it will need to fly higher altitudes and higher speeds for that missile's guidance system to work correctly. I tend not to trust these people when it comes to the things they claim their platforms "will end up doing" or "will be capable of so and so" until it actually does it.

but viper can't give you that kind of multi-role

I would also say that the Katran still needs to prove it can actually do all the things they say it can. Viper is a proven platform and also, here's the difference in the two makers - the US, for example, has a different philosophy as far as what platforms conduct what missions. They don't overload certain ones with many different multi-mission capable roles (until the F-35 lol.) In their case, the Viper would never need to carry a cruise-type missile such as Kh series because they leave that duty to other naval platforms such as their submarines or F/A-18 Super Hornets or the AV-8B Harrier (now the F-35B's function) etc. They design their weapon's capabilities according to the way they would fight a naval or ground role. The Russians, on the other hand, will load as much as possible on one platform and say this thing can do this and that and the other thing and also go to the moon if you like. Gotta be careful and we're yet to see if it truly can perform such things, and perform them well.

I also read somewhere that supposedly, the Alligator and Katran have UAV deploying capabilities! Have you heard of this? In the photo below, the large container on the left wing is supposed to be a utility and repair box with all sorts of tools and items to help the pilots repair anything on the chopper they need to if they are stranded or need to fix something in a remote area. It's also like a suitcase but it was also claimed that this container is capable of opening from the bottom and deploying up to 5, small UAV's and sending them out to recon battle areas ahead of the helicopter and show real-time imagery on the color display units for the pilots who remain at safe distance. I don't know the validity of this, but it was mentioned by a highly respected military person. It just goes to show, if true, how crazy and super loaded the Russians try to make their platforms!

The large pod houses the UAV's and those wingtip pods with the small fins supposedly will be the datalink pods for controlling the UAV's and receiving/transmitting signals.
Nice idea, actually. Anyone know of this?

081558.jpg


The one negative I would say about this helo is in the location of the gun. You can see it clearly in this picture and unlike most, if not all other attack helos that have their guns mounted on the nose for not only easier aiming but for much more rotation, it has its gun at mid-body with almost 0 movement capability. That means every time they use it, they have to point the helicopter in the direction of whatever they're firing at. They cannot really make full use of any helmet cuing system or have better area range of firing without having to control the helicopter as well. I would say that is a downside IMO.

208373.jpg


Because it can't be mounted on or below the nose since it needs to make room for the ECO-52 optical electronic system which is an excellent thing, no question. So maybe a good compromise in this case.

788096_23dc83a5754e51c0b09d9ad1f94a4a95.jpg



Viper might not have a weapon like the KH-35, but it's still a very deadly naval helo and multi-role just as much. I'm with you as far as the Katran being a better option. The coaxial rotor design alone gives it such great advantages and the ejection system.

sadly there is no alternatives for katran right now but maybe there is alternatives for the missing technology ( Radar )

I think they should stick with it and make sure the Russians agree to update/upgrade the radar system when it becomes successfully tested and operational as part of the purchase agreement.
 
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When you said "look for other alternatives" I thought you were referring to other naval attack helicopters, but you were referring to replacing the radar only on the Katran and Alligators. I think they should wait for the AESA to be ready and then insist on a upgrade through the original tender agreement they would sign for the contract. If it will be the Zhuk-AE, it will still need to be a modified version to fit and work on helos instead of the fighter-built radar. But still, I think it's better to stick with the same and more compatible equipment designed for that purpose than shop for a different make and try to fit it. I think that is much more difficult and also costly.



The Russians always overdo the capabilities of their equipment, at least before they're available. For example, they claimed that with the Arbalet radar (which is supposed to be the Russian equivalent of the Apache Longbow,) not only will the Katran be able to fire that huge, KH-35 missile (which is subsonic like a cruise missile) but also the mach-2 KH-31! lol. For a helicopter to fire a supersonic missile, it will need to fly higher altitudes and higher speeds for that missile's guidance system to work correctly. I tend not to trust these people when it comes to the things they claim their platforms "will end up doing" or "will be capable of so and so" until it actually does it.



I would also say that the Katran still needs to prove it can actually do all the things they say it can. Viper is a proven platform and also, here's the difference in the two makers - the US, for example, has a different philosophy as far as what platforms conduct what missions. They don't overload certain ones with many different multi-mission capable roles (until the F-35 lol.) In their case, the Viper would never need to carry a cruise-type missile such as Kh series because they leave that duty to other naval platforms such as their submarines or F/A-18 Super Hornets or the AV-8B Harrier (now the F-35B's function) etc. They design their weapon's capabilities according to the way they would fight a naval or ground role. The Russians, on the other hand, will load as much as possible on one platform and say this thing can do this and that and the other thing and also go to the moon if you like. Gotta be careful and we're yet to see if it truly can perform such things, and perform them well.

I also read somewhere that supposedly, the Alligator and Katran have UAV deploying capabilities! Have you heard of this? In the photo below, the large container on the left wing is supposed to be a utility and repair box with all sorts of tools and items to help the pilots repair anything on the chopper they need to if they are stranded or need to fix something in a remote area. It's also like a suitcase but it was also claimed that this container is capable of opening from the bottom and deploying up to 5, small UAV's and sending them out to recon battle areas ahead of the helicopter and show real-time imagery on the color display units for the pilots who remain at safe distance. I don't know the validity of this, but it was mentioned by a highly respected military person. It just goes to show, if true, how crazy and super loaded the Russians try to make their platforms!

The large pod houses the UAV's and those wingtip pods with the small fins supposedly will be the datalink pods for controlling the UAV's and receiving/transmitting signals.
Nice idea, actually. Anyone know of this?

081558.jpg


The one negative I would say about this helo is in the location of the gun. You can see it clearly in this picture and unlike most, if not all other attack helos that have their guns mounted on the nose for not only easier aiming but for much more rotation, it has its gun at mid-body with almost 0 movement capability. That means every time they use it, they have to point the helicopter in the direction of whatever they're firing at. They cannot really make full use of any helmet cuing system or have better area range of firing without having to control the helicopter as well. I would say that is a downside IMO.

208373.jpg


Because it can't be mounted on or below the nose since it needs to make room for the ECO-52 optical electronic system which is an excellent thing, no question. So maybe a good compromise in this case.

788096_23dc83a5754e51c0b09d9ad1f94a4a95.jpg



Viper might not have a weapon like the KH-35, but it's still a very deadly naval helo and multi-role just as much. I'm with you as far as the Katran being a better option. The coaxial rotor design alone gives it such great advantages and the ejection system.



I think they should stick with it and make sure the Russians agree to update/upgrade the radar system when it becomes successfully tested and operational as part of the purchase agreement.

I hope we get an AESA upgrade but I'm not getting my hopes up. AESA or not we still have quite the advantage over any of our neighbors with exception Israel in terms of tech. I would honestly prefer if we started to invest in unmanned drones instead of helicopters or helicopter-carriers.

That is just my two cents.
 
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I hope we get an AESA upgrade but I'm not getting my hopes up. AESA or not we still have quite the advantage over any of our neighbors with exception Israel in terms of tech. I would honestly prefer if we started to invest in unmanned drones instead of helicopters or helicopter-carriers.

That is just my two cents.

Yep. Maybe the only way to ensure an upgrade is to insist on it at the contract signing and if it would be monetarily feasible. If the Katran contract isn't signed yet, maybe it's worth holding the Russians to the upgrade considering Egypt would be the first, foreign customer of that helo (in both variants) and close to 90 of them and that would open the door for more exports to other countries. I think it's still easier than fitting in a different brand from a different manufacturer. Agreed on the drones, particularly UACVs.
 
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I hope we get an AESA upgrade but I'm not getting my hopes up. AESA or not we still have quite the advantage over any of our neighbors with exception Israel in terms of tech. I would honestly prefer if we started to invest in unmanned drones instead of helicopters or helicopter-carriers.

That is just my two cents.

You forgot Turkey...
 
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