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A recent protest of Baluch on missing persons

This protest in Pakistan. @Foxtrot Alpha ... what is the solution . It's literally bleed my heart.


Most of these so called missing person either the victim of terrorism or they are themselves terrorists hiding in border area between Afghanistan and Pakistan.
 
Somehow if you say something against the establishment on this forum people will start saying you are paid , agent of raw and Mossad and all sorts of crap. There are genuine greivences in Balochistan and FATA with the establishment. IDK why people get insecure with it. They think Pakistan is scandianavia utopia where the establishment has done no wrong
Then sort out the grievances in a peaceful political manner.
Stop threatening the security of innocent Pakistanis and Pakistan.
Stop pandering to foreign interests.

Those who live by the sword will die by the sword.
 
You are taking things for facevalue, you don't know how and what kind of things are happening in this country. People are selling blood plasma for 2 lac rupees. Allah saves them from an awful disease and the first thing that comes to their mind is not help but how to make money out of it. Jo terorrism ki waja se martay hain unn ki maa, behnain,betian nahi hain? The intelligence is not stupid or dumb that takes out any innocent bystander, either these are taken by intelligence for the right reasons or they are hiding and planning something against Pakistan in their own safehouse or something.

Collateral damage is a real thing, that happens, even if you agree or not.

I agree that many are indeed involved in terrorism. But if the govt indeed gas these people in custody, than what is stopping them from pressing charges, and hangin them?

Then sort out the grievances in a peaceful political manner.
Stop threatening the security of innocent Pakistanis and Pakistan.
Stop pandering to foreign interests.

Those who live by the sword will die by the sword.
So tomorrow if you brother hangs out with some guy whose on the terror watchlist, it would be okay to pick him up?

Lets suppose these people are indeed terrorists, whats the sin of their families who dont know what happened to their sons or where they are?
Do you support illegal disappearances without any charges pressed, any trial?
 
Completely disagree with some posters here.

If these missing persons were indeed terrorists or anti-state actors, they should be captured by legal means, tried in a court of law, imprisoned and punished. Illegal and extra-judicial detention isn't the way to deal with insurgents, dissenters and other political undesirables.

These allegations of kidnappings and detention at the hands of security forces are present in both FATA and Balochistan, and also can be heard from certain political/media persons who are critical of the army.

Even if 80% of those picked up like this are guilty of something, it's NOT the proper way to do things. It invites hatred, propaganda and conspiracy against the state and security forces. Your intentions are only as pure as your actions, and if you're picking people up and they become 'missing' for months and years with no trial, with family uninformed of their whereabouts and status, that is morally WRONG and illegal! And especially for the few who might actually have been innocent as the family members allege, if they indeed aren't innocent, there should be due process to determine this fact and punishment should be dealt in accordance with the law, not extra-judicially.
 
The "Establishment" or whatever you want to call it has overarching control over all of the government institutions. Many of the current problems are the effect of certain actions, these actions caused what is Right now Pakistan's internal problems. Foreign Influence's just took advantage of what was already brewing inside the country.
I am sick and tired of problems caused by us ,as some foreign conspiracy the problems were already there they just doused the small kindle with barrels and barrels of oil.
Somehow if you say something against the establishment on this forum people will start saying you are paid , agent of raw and Mossad and all sorts of crap. There are genuine greivences in Balochistan and FATA with the establishment. IDK why people get insecure with it. They think Pakistan is scandianavia utopia where the establishment has done no wrong

This calling people agents is not new and it's never getting old. Ayub Khan was a dictator and traitor general, he and the few before him trampled on Jinnah's ideals for a democratic Islamic republic, and then this traitor had the nerve and gall to call madr-e-millat Fatima Jinnah an Indian agent when she became the face of resistance.

It's unfortunate that this deitisation, as well as legal and moral impunity, has been successfully cultivated in the minds of the polity in defense of the establishment. They're not worthy of any serious criticism, and any criticism lodged their way is discredited as an external attack by anti-state elements, dissenting thought is automatically illegitimised.

I would ask the people on this thread to come to Karachi and ask how many innocent boys were killed in 1992 on the suspicion of being from MQM. Bara asaan hota hai ghaddar ka laqab dena. And we Muhajirs will always have to live with this taunt of being traitors and RAW agents now, regardless of whether we support MQM or not.

That's why I am wary of painting every Baloch as a RAW agent. These are our own people. If some of them turned to foreign agencies it means we failed them that they felt the need to seek external help. We still have not learnt anything from 1971. The Bengalis weren't traitors. We made them into one.

Some tribals are alleging the same things today too. No doubt there was an insurgency there, and families have had people who were neutral, some who were involved in militancy, and some pro-government, but they have serious grievances that people aren't aware of. When I speak about what I've heard directly from Tribals, I get called some sort of Pashtun nationalist or some PTM member. Heck, when hearing from tribals, I was initially dismissive of their views, I thought it couldn't possibly be the case, but then I heard them again multiple times, from multiple sources in multiple areas.

Army operations anywhere leave collateral damage, and they have other unintended consequences, that is because by their nature they are employed in wars, whereas here they do the job of policing and they do it at the behest of people who've truly learnt nothing from our history. Whether it was Op searchlight in 1971, or Balochistan operations in the 1970s and today, whether it was Karachi in 1992, or FATA in recent years. Army operations have led to allegations of abuse of power, kidnappings and killings, issues regarding long terms deployment and disruption of lives.

And instead of dealing reasonably and intelligently with issues raised, all we see is knee-jerk distrust, people who speak up get dismissed as sympathizers of militants, anti-state etc. Completely counterproductive.
 
This calling people agents is not new and it's never getting old. Ayub Khan was a dictator and traitor general, he and the few before him trampled on Jinnah's ideals for a democratic Islamic republic, and then this traitor had the nerve and gall to call madr-e-millat Fatima Jinnah an Indian agent when she became the face of resistance.

It's unfortunate that this deitisation, as well as legal and moral impunity, has been successfully cultivated in the minds of the polity in defense of the establishment. They're not worthy of any serious criticism, and any criticism lodged their way is discredited as an external attack by anti-state elements, dissenting thought is automatically illegitimised.


You forgot the most destructive Frankenstein of our establishment. The TTP. They tried to paint that as foreign funded too.

You forgot the most destructive Frankenstein of our establishment. The TTP. They tried to paint that as foreign funded too.


And no doubt it was foreign funded. But we let it grow to a point where foreign agencies could take advantage of it. Khud saanp ko dhood pilane wali baat hai.
 
Collateral damage is a real thing, that happens, even if you agree or not.

I agree that many are indeed involved in terrorism. But if the govt indeed gas these people in custody, than what is stopping them from pressing charges, and hangin them?


So tomorrow if you brother hangs out with some guy whose on the terror watchlist, it would be okay to pick him up?

Lets suppose these people are indeed terrorists, whats the sin of their families who dont know what happened to their sons or where they are?
Do you support illegal disappearances without any charges pressed, any trial?
I totally understand where you are coming from, and in a perfect world that is what would happen. But in a perfect world these terrorists wouldn't be killing and maiming their own fellow Muslim Pakistanis for Hindu Indian money.
Do you think the TTP would have been defeated if the police had gone round arresting suspects and sending them for trial? They had to be eliminated and they were. Do you think these terrorists think a out the guilt or innocence of the innocent Balochi Pakistanis they kill without mercy? For what? For being loyal, patriotic Pakistanis?
Their families aren't the ones that are being targeted. Of course it's painful for the families when one of their own disappears but they have to realise that when their relatives are involved in covert anti state activities at the behest of foreign powers then the state is going to fight fire with fire. Maybe these traitors should think about their families before they start shooting innocent civilians and bombing military convoys.
Let them protest and campaign peacefully and the people of Pakistan would campaign with them.
Kill Pakistani people and Pakistani state will kill you.
 
Of course it's wrong to dismiss her tears and suffering, but people need to understand how such groups act. They will never tell their kin their activities, due to the multiplying rule, as in if one other person knows there's a chance another will know and so on. So hence the likelihood of getting caught is high. Many times mothers, sisters, wives, daughters etc are completely in the dark.
However there are people in custody who have spent a great deal of time incarcerated, and therefore there needs to be movement here i.e. release or charge them.
 
Amazingly I don't care even a tiny tiny tiny little bit

Strange!


We live in a tough neighborhood with enemies, the main one being the Indians who we will be relentless against

Our weakness however has always been internal
Corruption, worthless dishonest politicians including some general's in that statement
Ethnocentrism and groups who have no sense of the bigger picture



The soft approach in a society like ours gets you NO WHERE, people just see it as weakness
We have too much Jahilat and until it goes we will suffer

In a society like ours our people only understand the DANDA


And we need to take some tough decisions now
Ensure that the border fence is built
Non citizens are expelled
Sedition is punished legally
And we hunt our enemies

We haven't got time to pander and act like we are fcuking Switzerland
 
The protest was completely scripted and all the rented terrorist missing persons are either sent to hell or are sitting in Afghanistan.
 
And we Muhajirs will always have to live with this taunt of being traitors and RAW agents now, regardless of whether we support MQM or not.

F**k those who call us traitors...

On topic: This issue needs to be addressed...Foreign enemies are also exploiting this while establishment as usual in her mess up mode
 
Wars are fcking messy, most of you cant handle the truth. You gotta kill or be killed, my sympathy for the sister, but when your relative picked up the gun, he was a dead man walking.
 
F**k those who call us traitors...

On topic: This issue needs to be addressed...Foreign enemies are also exploiting this while establishment as usual in her mess up mode
It makes me sad when whole communities are labelled.
The overwhelming majority of Pakistanis are loyal patriotic Pakistanis, whether they be Muhajirs, Punjabis, Baloch, Sindhis, Pathans, Muslims, Christians ,Sikhs, Hindus, Sunni, Shia, Ahmadi, you name it. We will fight the enemies of Pakistan as one.
The greatest enemies of Pakistan are those that would divide us by labeling every person by ethnicity rather than seeing everyone as Pakistani.
 

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