A readworthy article about America's rebalance to Asia and the reasons why it may backfire

[jhungary]

I should say that as a Navy man myself, numbers alone don't mean jack squat, as my American boys would say in the usn. LOL.

Having the numbers in paper doesn't mean victory in operation. Because quite frankly the USN is battle tested, time tested, and have the legacy in breaking great naval powers. In fact the USN (as well as the IJN) practically wrote the book on carrier warfare (which was studied by modern navies to this day). Comparing PLAN with the USN is just ridiculous, if you ask me, since the latter is just a legacy unto its own. The level of professionalism, power, and shear expectation in USN is unrivaled. I'm very protective and very biased for JMSDF as an officer. However, I have worked with USN counterparts on various levels and on varies capacities that i can say without a doubt of their (USN personnel) level of professionalism, and expectations that they place on themselves.

The PLAN is largely untested. Period.

in the Army, number is important for planning stage of any combat operation...

Because the different between Business Management and Military Operational Management is the operational objective. While it was largely ignored in business management. It was quite important for any ground commander to plan ground operation.

To put it simply, sometime winning a battle and achieve tactical victory could be a pyrrhic victory, you need the number to fill the operational objective. I mean if you took the hill but only 5 of your men remain, you won that battle but may as well lost that war. I mean unless you can figure out how to fight future battle with 5 men....At least until you have your reinforcement...

 

[Carach Angren]

However, I have worked with USN counterparts on various levels and on varies capacities that i can say without a doubt of their (USN personnel) level of professionalism, and expectations that they place on themselves.

I'll second their professionalism. I served along side US forces in Afghanistan, theory didn't make them good. Training and tactics helped, their equipment made our forces look amateurish, but their combat experience, with some of these guys having done double-digit tours in multiple nations, damn that's about all I can say about them. They knew what worked and what didn't, they adapted when something became stale, they did what others weren't doing.

The US military has experience dropping bombs, operating logistics supply chains and communications nodes, coordinating with regional and trans-national allies, including joint kinetic and intelligence actions. They've done it before, this isn't something China has right now. They have their own tactics, doctrines and training, their effectiveness is debatable, but they lack that all important piece the US has; experience. Wars are fought by people using machines. How well the operator does his or her job makes the difference, not numbers or technology. Training and tactics only go so far, eventually you need to test them out to see if they actually work.

 

[mike jones]

I should say that as a Navy man myself, numbers alone don't mean jack squat, as my American boys would say in the usn. LOL.

Having the numbers in paper doesn't mean victory in operation. Because quite frankly the USN is battle tested, time tested, and have the legacy in breaking great naval powers. In fact the USN (as well as the IJN) practically wrote the book on carrier warfare (which was studied by modern navies to this day). Comparing PLAN with the USN is just ridiculous, if you ask me, since the latter is just a legacy unto its own. The level of professionalism, power, and shear expectation in USN is unrivaled. I'm very protective and very biased for JMSDF as an officer. However, I have worked with USN counterparts on various levels and on varies capacities that i can say without a doubt of their (USN personnel) level of professionalism, and expectations that they place on themselves.

The PLAN is largely untested. Period.

Similar to WWII when US decided to help out Britain. They got slaughtered pretty quick by the Germans who were more educated and experience in battlefield than the fresh americans.

 

[jhungary]

I don't understand why China has to go so far to be recognized as someone important? China is important in an economic way. How about use that towards expansion to mars or other solar systems in our galaxy. JMHO

A lot of reason, from their own insecurity to the power coming from money.

Problem is space exploration take a lot of skills and science and Chinese Scientific advancement has not reach the point that they can explore Mars and Beyond. And skill and science is not something you can buy with money....I can put 20 millions in front of the scientist, that does not make that scientist have its breakthrough sooner...

 

[xunzi]

The thing is - Pacifist China is a stabilizing force in this world as evidenced by Chinese contributions in solving contentious Iran Deal lockjam. China can utilize it's economic muscle to deal with countries and bring them in line who otherwise would start frothing in the name of USA.

So No, no one wants to "DEFEAT" China, all the neighboring well wishers want to guide China back to it's peaceful and conciliatory stand. No wants a game of chicken when nuclear armed forces are involved.

Of course, we are a peaceful force, the only force, along with Russia that can resist the US attempt to shape global order for their hegemonic interest. As far as we are concern, that is not to say a Pacifist China will stand back and watch "others" dictate, bully, and threaten our territorial rights which is given to all countries, big or small, and it is not an exclusive rights of the US to threaten the sovereign rights to choose their own path.

We always welcome peaceful negotiation and are open to all talks concerning territorial disputes for those who are directly involved. Outsiders have no business to input in these talks and shape the interest of any concern parties in the dispute.

 

[mike jones]

Of course, we are a peaceful force, the only force, along with Russia that can resist the US attempt to shape global order for their hegemonic interest. As far as we are concern, that is not to say a Pacifist China will stand back and watch "others" dictate, bully, and threaten our territorial rights which is given to all countries, big or small, and it is not an exclusive rights of the US to threaten the sovereign rights to choose their own path.

We always welcome peaceful negotiation and are open to all talks concerning territorial disputes for those who are directly involved. Outsiders have no business to input in these talks and shape the interest of any concern parties in the dispute.

Didn't you just say China illegally built islands on claimed territories from other countries? You change fast.

A lot of reason, from their own insecurity to the power coming from money.

Problem is space exploration take a lot of skills and science and Chinese Scientific advancement has not reach the point that they can explore Mars and Beyond. And skill and science is not something you can buy with money....I can put 20 millions in front of the scientist, that does not make that scientist have its breakthrough sooner...

I have a Chinese friend who told me that Engineers and Scientists in China don't make much money. He's an Engineer himself.

 

[xunzi]

Yes, you are powerful. I get it.

Power is like water. Water should not be use as a traditional force. It should be use as a force of repellent as anything hits water will be absorb. LOL

 

[mike jones]

Power is like water. Water should not be use as a traditional force. It should be use as a force of repellent as anything hits water will be absorb. LOL

You starting to creep me out, dude.

 

[jhungary]

I have a Chinese friend who told me that Engineers and Scientists in China don't make much money. He's an Engineer himself.

Well, they don't pay as much as it was in the west, which is actually bad.

My brother have this experience. He is an certified Aircraft Mechanic from Rolls Royce and now working in Boeing as one of the Engine Design Engineer, he earn about 20,000 USD a month working in Wichita Kansas Boeing plant. He once receive an offer from a Chinese firm paying him 50,000 Yuan a month (Which is about 7-8000 USD) for the same job.......
Another offer from Hong Kong HASEL Engineering firm for 70,000 HKD/mth.....(about 10,000 USD per month)

 

[xunzi]

Didn't you just say China illegally built islands on claimed territories from other countries? You change fast.

Illegal occupation implies one country takes another country possession that is recognized by the international law and communities. None of those islands sovereignty in SCS are recognized by the world, but instead recognized as claim of relevant claimants. In fact, they are considered to be a grey zone area, which mean those who claimed have the rights to protect and safeguard the islands in their possession. We simply exercise that rights within our historical claim which were made before the Philippines were even a country. By international law, the Philippines should have no possession outside of their major Islands chain. In fact, your big brother Uncle Sam should explain to you as they know full well what is in the Philippines possession because they are the owner of the Philippines before the Philippines become an independent country.

You starting to creep me out, dude.

I'm teaching you a lesson so learn.

 

[mike jones]

Illegal occupation implies one country takes another country possession that is recognized by the international law and communities. None of those islands sovereignty in SCS are recognized by the world, but instead recognized as claim of relevant claimants. In fact, they are considered to be a grey zone area, which mean those who claimed have the rights to protect and safeguard the islands in their possession. We simply exercise that rights within our historical claim which were made before the Philippines were even a country. By international law, the Philippines should have no possession outside of their major Islands chain. In fact, your big brother Uncle Sam should explain to you as they know full well what is in the Philippines possession because they are the owner of the Philippines before the Philippines become an independent country.




I'm teaching you a lesson so learn.

No, I'm actually concern with your mentality. I have no idea what you are talking about. Sorry, I don't learn from mentally unstable people like you.

 

[xunzi]

No, I'm actually concern with your mentality. I have no idea what you are talking about. Sorry, I don't learn from mentally unstable people like you.

Young fella, let not be cocky and say you have reach the mountain.

 

[mike jones]

Well, they don't pay as much as it was in the west, which is actually bad.

My brother have this experience. He is an certified Aircraft Mechanic from Rolls Royce and now working in Boeing as one of the Engine Design Engineer, he earn about 20,000 USD a month working in Wichita Kansas Boeing plant. He once receive an offer from a Chinese firm paying him 50,000 Yuan a month (Which is about 7-8000 USD) for the same job.......
Another offer from Hong Kong HASEL Engineering firm for 70,000 HKD/mth.....(about 10,000 USD per month)

Interesting. $20,000/month is nice salary. Average senior Engineers here with 10-15 years experience make $10,000 CAD/month

 

[anon45]

Similar to WWII when US decided to help out Britain. They got slaughtered pretty quick by the Germans who were more educated and experience in battlefield than the fresh americans.

Time to gain experience is what the US needed at that point, would China have the time to accumulate it to make a difference? In naval combat?


Also great discussion from the think tanks, professionals, and a few other contributors on here it was a breath of fresh air to read!

Im already glad this thread was made!

 

[70U63]

As usual, you form an alliance and destroy countries like what happen in middle east for self-interest. And still able to play moral high-ground and act professional.
Still want to repeat the same thing, some countries always stay weak and poor for reasons.