A question to Terror Mata Sushma Swaraj

[Joe Shearer]

This snow ball game with shit instead of snow won't take us anywhere .. India throw their shit on us and we do the same . with this attitude how on earth both countries even think to start any dialog ???

@Joe Shearer there must be a better way moving forward than this ..
There is a verse in holy Quran where it says to jews and Christian to let's come together and talk on things that are common between you and us .. Can't we ( India&Pakistan )can together on common ground to initiate a process that could lead a better future for next generations .. Cause there is always room for more proxy and wars .

That is precisely why many Indians came to this forum and started trying to build bridges. Sadly, when Pakistanis went to Indian forums, they were received with hostility and contempt. Equally sadly, many Indians came here with the express purpose of disrupting proceedings. These latter have never participated in any single discussion on defence; never participated in any positive way in any other discussions; never had anything positive to say about Pakistan or Pakistanis; and never gave up trying to disrupt proceedings, right through multiple bans.

In miniature, that also reflects relations on the broader front between Indians and Pakistanis. Until the recent change of government (I had started using a completely different set of words and then thought of the consequences in real life; what you read is written with an eye cast over my shoulder), there was some effort on the Indian side to continue a dialogue. The hope was that sooner or later there would be a liberal constituency to speak to.

Fate ruled otherwise; on the one hand, the liberal constituency, or rather, opposition to the old rabid, bigoted and violent outlook on the Pakistani side made headway. Those who promoted the bloody old ways found more and more resistance. You can see it on PDF itself; there are reasonable and rational members now to support those who were always there to fight a brave fight, but also to extend their hands for a just peace. But sadly, on the Indian side, a variety of reasons - anger and fury at the extended corruption displayed by the Congress, their seeming unending appeasement of the conservatives among Muslims, a cynical approach anchored in their hope of creating a Muslim vote bank, a constituency that would vote in unison on the call of their clergy, thwarted hopes of economic growth and prosperity, an increasing demand for opportunities - all combined with the ridiculous lack of leadership among other parties and a monomaniacal pursuit of power by one party led to the unexpected victory of the BJP and its allies.

We are now faced with a segment of Pakistani opinion that is ready to look at long-term solutions, or at least to overlook short-term adventurism (this is not the slavish political voice fearful of the 'boys' that we heard at the UN, but other, independent voices), but have nothing in our larder to offer instead. We have only the lowest level of demagoguery, shifted from the local hustings to the international plane.

I believe that we have to bide our time patiently, and wait for the swings in each other's political orientation to synchronise, to the time when sincere efforts at finding common ground take the place of this mutually assured self-humiliation in the eyes of the world. Until then, there seems to be no solution but to hunker down and wait for better days - the true achhe din - to come to us, once again.

 

[El Sidd]

That is precisely why many Indians came to this forum and started trying to build bridges. Sadly, when Pakistanis went to Indian forums, they were received with hostility and contempt. Equally sadly, many Indians came here with the express purpose of disrupting proceedings. These latter have never participated in any single discussion on defence; never participated in any positive way in any other discussions; never had anything positive to say about Pakistan or Pakistanis; and never gave up trying to disrupt proceedings, right through multiple bans.

In miniature, that also reflects relations on the broader front between Indians and Pakistanis. Until the recent change of government (I had started using a completely different set of words and then thought of the consequences in real life; what you read is written with an eye cast over my shoulder), there was some effort on the Indian side to continue a dialogue. The hope was that sooner or later there would be a liberal constituency to speak to.

Fate ruled otherwise; on the one hand, the liberal constituency, or rather, opposition to the old rabid, bigoted and violent outlook on the Pakistani side made headway. Those who promoted the bloody old ways found more and more resistance. You can see it on PDF itself; there are reasonable and rational members now to support those who were always there to fight a brave fight, but also to extend their hands for a just peace. But sadly, on the Indian side, a variety of reasons - anger and fury at the extended corruption displayed by the Congress, their seeming unending appeasement of the conservatives among Muslims, a cynical approach anchored in their hope of creating a Muslim vote bank, a constituency that would vote in unison on the call of their clergy, thwarted hopes of economic growth and prosperity, an increasing demand for opportunities - all combined with the ridiculous lack of leadership among other parties and a monomaniacal pursuit of power by one party led to the unexpected victory of the BJP and its allies.

We are now faced with a segment of Pakistani opinion that is ready to look at long-term solutions, or at least to overlook short-term adventurism (this is not the slavish political voice fearful of the 'boys' that we heard at the UN, but other, independent voices), but have nothing in our larder to offer instead. We have only the lowest level of demagoguery, shifted from the local hustings to the international plane.

I believe that we have to bide our time patiently, and wait for the swings in each other's political orientation to synchronise, to the time when sincere efforts at finding common ground take the place of this mutually assured self-humiliation in the eyes of the world. Until then, there seems to be no solution but to hunker down and wait for better days - the true achhe din - to come to us, once again.

No status quo is above the humanitarian crisis in Kashmir.

 

[HariPrasad]

View attachment 427577

Then why did you not mentioned him in UN? Had u done that, your one more lie would have been exposed. Any harm to this abducted guy will have fierce consequences. India has made it clear.

 

[oOo]

Sushma Swaraj definitely made some posters overwork.

 

[oOo]

That is precisely why many Indians came to this forum and started trying to build bridges. Sadly, when Pakistanis went to Indian forums, they were received with hostility and contempt. Equally sadly, many Indians came here with the express purpose of disrupting proceedings. These latter have never participated in any single discussion on defence; never participated in any positive way in any other discussions; never had anything positive to say about Pakistan or Pakistanis; and never gave up trying to disrupt proceedings, right through multiple bans.

In miniature, that also reflects relations on the broader front between Indians and Pakistanis. Until the recent change of government (I had started using a completely different set of words and then thought of the consequences in real life; what you read is written with an eye cast over my shoulder), there was some effort on the Indian side to continue a dialogue. The hope was that sooner or later there would be a liberal constituency to speak to.

Fate ruled otherwise; on the one hand, the liberal constituency, or rather, opposition to the old rabid, bigoted and violent outlook on the Pakistani side made headway. Those who promoted the bloody old ways found more and more resistance. You can see it on PDF itself; there are reasonable and rational members now to support those who were always there to fight a brave fight, but also to extend their hands for a just peace. But sadly, on the Indian side, a variety of reasons - anger and fury at the extended corruption displayed by the Congress, their seeming unending appeasement of the conservatives among Muslims, a cynical approach anchored in their hope of creating a Muslim vote bank, a constituency that would vote in unison on the call of their clergy, thwarted hopes of economic growth and prosperity, an increasing demand for opportunities - all combined with the ridiculous lack of leadership among other parties and a monomaniacal pursuit of power by one party led to the unexpected victory of the BJP and its allies.

We are now faced with a segment of Pakistani opinion that is ready to look at long-term solutions, or at least to overlook short-term adventurism (this is not the slavish political voice fearful of the 'boys' that we heard at the UN, but other, independent voices), but have nothing in our larder to offer instead. We have only the lowest level of demagoguery, shifted from the local hustings to the international plane.

I believe that we have to bide our time patiently, and wait for the swings in each other's political orientation to synchronise, to the time when sincere efforts at finding common ground take the place of this mutually assured self-humiliation in the eyes of the world. Until then, there seems to be no solution but to hunker down and wait for better days - the true achhe din - to come to us, once again.

You take these forums way more seriously and give them more credit than due. They are always controlled discourse where not only the thoughts but who will participate and who will not is ascertained by few in command. This is a defence forum, peace is venom for it.

 

[Joe Shearer]

You take these forums way more seriously and give them more credit than due. They are always controlled discourse where not only the thoughts but who will participate and who will not is ascertained by few in command. This is a defence forum, peace is venom for it.

I have taken it as a model, not as the living reality.

 

[oOo]

I have taken it as a model, not as the living reality.

Do you believe any level of discourse can change Azlan Haider line of thoughts(On Kashmir), which I perceive as intellectual dishonesty driven by nationalistic approach?

Not if changing his opinion matters. But if model is not scale-able, does that hold any value to get invested in, beyond a point?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Do you believe any level of discourse can change Azlan Haider line of thoughts(On Kashmir), which I perceive as intellectual dishonesty driven by nationalistic approach?

Not if changing his opinion matters. But if model is not scale-able, does that hold any value to get invested in, beyond a point?

I didn't understand.

I believe that the model is scaleable. However, scaleable doesn't mean that it will reproduce itself exactly, in the same proportions. There will be distortions, sure, because in any case, the slice of the population in the sample is itself biased; the general population is nowhere like this.

This is one of several indicators that form a picture, a hazy picture, but nevertheless a picture.

What is your option? Looking at a TV screen filled with snow?

 

[oOo]

I didn't understand.

I believe that the model is scaleable. However, scaleable doesn't mean that it will reproduce itself exactly, in the same proportions. There will be distortions, sure, because in any case, the slice of the population in the sample is itself biased; the general population is nowhere like this.

I will borrow a line from @Syed.Ali.Haider . The forum is what its management want it to be. No matter if its scaleable or not, it can not expand into territories unhealthy for a "defence" forum.

What is your option? Looking at a TV screen filled with snow?

Yes, to be honest. If that calm my nerves more than banging my head on you know who.

But then if you are into "Ekla chalo re" mode, you might want to dwell into territories of uncertainties(noted: hazy pictures), you should continue. However I do not see you conquering the narrative this forum wants as a final product. Your side product will be lost in heaps of posts made by new elites of the forum having a free hand now.

The sensible indian posters are made to shift to another place, again owned by same person.

 

[Jackdaws]

If Jadhav would have been a terrorist, India would never have defended him. If he is proved a terrorist, India will loose its face internationally. Look at Pakistan, did they defended Kashab?




There are lot more...Pepsi CEO, Adobe CEO...are also Indians.

Pakistan doesn't believe in the concept of consular access - they did not seek it for Kasab knowing he was ; nor gave to Jadhav knowing he was being framed. But comeon, this is a country known for coups, suspension of democracy etc.

 

[VCheng]

I will borrow a line from @Syed.Ali.Haider . The forum is what its management want it to be. No matter if its scaleable or not, it can not expand into territories unhealthy for a "defence" forum.

Their right to do so must always be respected.

 

[thesolar65]

My question is off the topic. But has Col Habib returned home?

 

[cocomo]

This snow ball game with shit instead of snow won't take us anywhere .. India throw their shit on us and we do the same . with this attitude how on earth both countries even think to start any dialog ???

India wanted a mud throwing match to show to the world that Pakistan is just trying to malign India. I don't think Pakistan will repeatedly participate.

 

[YeBeWarned]

India wanted a mud throwing match to show to the world that Pakistan is just trying to malign India. I don't think Pakistan will repeatedly participate.

The phase Indian society is going through is somewhat similar to our Zia era .. That's all I can say

 

[Liquidmetal]

Much better than terrorist and their sympathisers, from Terroristan, with only hope of achieving anything is by blowing themselves. Even PA is no better ... The best weapon they got is NASR.. meant to blow on their own land.

By the way you are way below in every parameters than those racket making, hanging from trees, slumdogs. Probably you too are one of those living in Orangi town and shitting like half of those Pakistanis without a latrine.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1168181


Go blow yourself to satisfactions. Shoo

The only people we sympathise with are people looking to rid of you from their lands. The people who want freedom from the shit and poverty and the yoke that is Hindustan aka TerrorMata. For more than 70 years - your cursed land has been riven by terror, the sight and sound of the insatiable Indian killing and raping. Thank God we carved a land out of your belly and now we want to prevent the continuing holocaust in TerrorMata. We will support all and everyone looking to free themselves from the mother of terror, Hindustan.