Naofumi
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That should be realistic, not castles in the air...all come through a single method ?
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That should be realistic, not castles in the air...all come through a single method ?
That should be realistic, not castles in the air.
Jamahir bhai, ye baat mazhab ki hai. Kashmir is a Hindu-Muslim matter and religion will not go for another 60 years from the subcontinent.
A joint controlled region would be my best bet.And your realistic method is... ?
I believe there's a threshold point, a global peak after which it will go downhill.Nahi meri jaan. Mazhab cannot be wiped out from our South Asian psyche. Bangladesh jesa mulk bhi waqt ke saath saath aur ziada religious hota ja raha hai.
@drmeson your fellow brother in Iranian genetics? enjoy. cheers.
Please understand what is Iranian genetic composition in 2020 has had liberal epochal infusions of alien blood, Arab, African, Indic, Turkic on 4 broad time period planes.
These are not the same as two genetic pulses detected on Parsis and Irani Zoroastrians.
The older one male and Cypriot, coinciding with Alexander's invasion.
And the more recent one about 44 generations old, female and Indic.
Bottomline, modern day Iranians are mongrelized Persians.
The two major compositions of the Iranian dna that came from outside the Iranian plateau are the Turkic and Indic genetic varients.
Actually their are two theories as to what he was
One is that his ancestors were Yazidi Kurds who converted to Islam.
The other is that his ancestors were an Arab tribe who moved to what is now Iranian Azerbaijan and eastern turkey and assimilated into the Kurdish population.
Regardless, he was a great man.
Most immediately I speak for a drastic reduction of Indian forces in the Kashmir valley.
What compromises do you want India to make ?
New Recruit
Your proposal involves accepting the status quo, which is essentially what India wants.
There is no compromise here on the part of India, so what incentive does Pakistan have to accept such a proposal? You need to provide more details of what either side gains. I see nothing in here for Pakistan.
And the main premise behind this proposal, of some kind of identical 'progressive political system' is a no go in Pakistan for the foreseeable future.
Pakistan is still trying to refine her parliamentary democracy. There are internal debates over provincial autonomy, shifting to a Presidential system and of course the religious right arguing for a Shariah based system. You're never going to have a consensus in Pakistan over this.
In essence, Akhand Bharat.
No.
Everything you proposed involves Pakistan conceding to India, with Indian making ZERO compromises.
I am in favor of open borders, trade, people to people contacts & an economic union down the road, but not unless the dispute of Jammu & Kashmir is resolved by letting the millions of residents vote on their destiny via Plebiscite.
Only plausible solution to kashmir issue is to respect the will of people. Let the kashmiri people decide what they want. Any forced solution will only strengthen prevailing Modi-butcher's illegal occupation. Plebiscite is the legitimate option. One can truly find the difference what is happening in Azad jammu and kashmir and Indian occupied Kashmir
A political solution for Kashmir and lasting peace for India and PakistanIndia and Pakistan need to settle the long, sad but frankly immature dispute over Kashmir once and for all. Peacefully and politically. Both have similar social, economic and political problems so any nuanced and generic solution for one country can also be used by the other country. The prescribed solution by the UNO is impractical. As it involves, as far as I understand, India withdrawing military units stationed in India-administered Kashmir and then arranging for a plebiscite there while also accepting the UNO as a mediator. But the Indian Establishment believes, as also its foreign allies, that India-administered Kashmir is primarily a matter internal to India but since Pakistan cannot be wished away the matter should involve both countries settling the matter between themselves, peacefully and politically. But any such settlement should benefit both the countries immediately and in the long term.
Written by: Jamahir
Category cloud: Opinion, analysis
Therefore I present one solution as below. The solution is based on Muammar Gaddafi's solution for Kashmir to which I have added some bits.
1. Both countries should adopt the same Progressive political system. Two separate, independent republics but with the same political system, much like what pre-2003 Iraq and Syria were with their same Ba'athist systems. The Progressive political system can be the Direct Democracy Socialism system that governed Libya until the 2011 war. Readers can refer to these pages to understand how this system works. This system is called the Third Universal Theory aka Jamahiriya theory. In India, a form of Direct Democracy called Swaraj is being implemented in Delhi by the ruling AAP party and is also being forwarded by the Swaraj Abhiyan movement and there is no reason why it cannot be extended to Pakistan as well.
2. Let Indian-administered Kashmir and Pakistani-administered Kashmir remain with their respective countries.
3. Convert the LoC into an International Border that is accessible for trade, tourism and family visits.
All this will make the separatists in India-administered Kashmir to understand that their desire to join Pakistan-administered Kashmir is unnecessary because both countries will have become the same, politically.
Furthermore, with separatist militancy reduced in Indian-administered Kashmir, what will remain is regressive religious militancy or activism which can be controlled and removed with social support by progressives among the local population. The side effect will also be a drastic removal of the current military force which will lead to more goodwill for the peace project.
I speak of the troubles and concerns of Muslims in Indian Kashmir and I will also speak of the troubles and concerns of the Kashmiri Pundit refugees. There must be something like Nelson Mandela's Truth and Reconciliation Commission. I would like the refugee Kashmiri Pandits to be allowed to return back to the Valley.
The next step would be resumption of the Aman Ki Asha peace mission as well as resumption of food and clothing festivals to be organized in both countries.
If not for such a solution, how long would the Establishments of India and Pakistan keep up with this cross-border hate? For another 50 years? 100? Until a reformed UNO decides to send in a military arbitrator force? And would the people of both countries not like the money and other resources spent by their respective militaries in positioning against each other to be spent on making each others countries a welfare state where there are things like high quality free medical system like in Cuba?
An important point is that the given solution will not only benefit the Kashmiri's but also will bring progress to India and Pakistan - socially, economically and politically.
Lastly, to extend a point about direct democracy socialism, It worked in Libya and it is being implemented in Venezuela ( the consejos comunales - communal councils ). Two different kinds of countries, ethnically and geographically. No reason why India and Pakistan cannot adopt the system given the fact that both countries have so much in common. And just Direct Democracy without the socialism part has been the system in Switzerland for long.
_______________________________________________________________________
Disclaimer: The post only represents writer's own point of views. The post do not represent point of views of Pakistan Defence management. Pakistan Defence Team will not be responsible for disagreements.
_______________________________________________________________________
Credits: The post is written by Jamahir, India. The proof reading and some other editing has been done by Think Tank Analyst, Forcetrip. The final formatting, editing and picture uploading is done by Slav Defence., Think Tank Vice Chairman.
A political solution for Kashmir and lasting peace for India and PakistanIndia and Pakistan need to settle the long, sad but frankly immature dispute over Kashmir once and for all. Peacefully and politically. Both have similar social, economic and political problems so any nuanced and generic solution for one country can also be used by the other country. The prescribed solution by the UNO is impractical. As it involves, as far as I understand, India withdrawing military units stationed in India-administered Kashmir and then arranging for a plebiscite there while also accepting the UNO as a mediator. But the Indian Establishment believes, as also its foreign allies, that India-administered Kashmir is primarily a matter internal to India but since Pakistan cannot be wished away the matter should involve both countries settling the matter between themselves, peacefully and politically. But any such settlement should benefit both the countries immediately and in the long term.
Written by: Jamahir
Category cloud: Opinion, analysis
Therefore I present one solution as below. The solution is based on Muammar Gaddafi's solution for Kashmir to which I have added some bits.
1. Both countries should adopt the same Progressive political system. Two separate, independent republics but with the same political system, much like what pre-2003 Iraq and Syria were with their same Ba'athist systems. The Progressive political system can be the Direct Democracy Socialism system that governed Libya until the 2011 war. Readers can refer to these pages to understand how this system works. This system is called the Third Universal Theory aka Jamahiriya theory. In India, a form of Direct Democracy called Swaraj is being implemented in Delhi by the ruling AAP party and is also being forwarded by the Swaraj Abhiyan movement and there is no reason why it cannot be extended to Pakistan as well.
2. Let Indian-administered Kashmir and Pakistani-administered Kashmir remain with their respective countries.
3. Convert the LoC into an International Border that is accessible for trade, tourism and family visits.
All this will make the separatists in India-administered Kashmir to understand that their desire to join Pakistan-administered Kashmir is unnecessary because both countries will have become the same, politically.
Furthermore, with separatist militancy reduced in Indian-administered Kashmir, what will remain is regressive religious militancy or activism which can be controlled and removed with social support by progressives among the local population. The side effect will also be a drastic removal of the current military force which will lead to more goodwill for the peace project.
I speak of the troubles and concerns of Muslims in Indian Kashmir and I will also speak of the troubles and concerns of the Kashmiri Pundit refugees. There must be something like Nelson Mandela's Truth and Reconciliation Commission. I would like the refugee Kashmiri Pandits to be allowed to return back to the Valley.
The next step would be resumption of the Aman Ki Asha peace mission as well as resumption of food and clothing festivals to be organized in both countries.
If not for such a solution, how long would the Establishments of India and Pakistan keep up with this cross-border hate? For another 50 years? 100? Until a reformed UNO decides to send in a military arbitrator force? And would the people of both countries not like the money and other resources spent by their respective militaries in positioning against each other to be spent on making each others countries a welfare state where there are things like high quality free medical system like in Cuba?
An important point is that the given solution will not only benefit the Kashmiri's but also will bring progress to India and Pakistan - socially, economically and politically.
Lastly, to extend a point about direct democracy socialism, It worked in Libya and it is being implemented in Venezuela ( the consejos comunales - communal councils ). Two different kinds of countries, ethnically and geographically. No reason why India and Pakistan cannot adopt the system given the fact that both countries have so much in common. And just Direct Democracy without the socialism part has been the system in Switzerland for long.
_______________________________________________________________________
Disclaimer: The post only represents writer's own point of views. The post do not represent point of views of Pakistan Defence management. Pakistan Defence Team will not be responsible for disagreements.
_______________________________________________________________________
Credits: The post is written by Jamahir, India. The proof reading and some other editing has been done by Think Tank Analyst, Forcetrip. The final formatting, editing and picture uploading is done by Slav Defence., Think Tank Vice Chairman.
Even the US can't even wipe out the influence of religion in domestic politics, and the US has been working on it a lot longer, without the territorial disputes and communal tensions of South Asia.Nahi meri jaan. Mazhab cannot be wiped out from our South Asian psyche. Bangladesh jesa mulk bhi waqt ke saath saath aur ziada religious hota ja raha hai.
New Recruit
DR bro,it seems to be same what mr parvez Musharraf & mr vajpayee tried in 2003 by Agra summit,it didn't work then neither it is going to work now or in future.Try to understand basic thing.why kashmiris mainly muslims hate India why Kashmiri mainly Hindu pandit or dogra hate Pakistan...just answer me that....here lies the solution...be practical...no fairytales....you can think ethical too but in positive manner...plz answer me what makes Kashmiri muslims to hate India &a what makes Kashmiri pandits to hate Pakistan...what is it & why is it ?????????????!?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
A political solution for Kashmir and lasting peace for India and PakistanIndia and Pakistan need to settle the long, sad but frankly immature dispute over Kashmir once and for all. Peacefully and politically. Both have similar social, economic and political problems so any nuanced and generic solution for one country can also be used by the other country. The prescribed solution by the UNO is impractical. As it involves, as far as I understand, India withdrawing military units stationed in India-administered Kashmir and then arranging for a plebiscite there while also accepting the UNO as a mediator. But the Indian Establishment believes, as also its foreign allies, that India-administered Kashmir is primarily a matter internal to India but since Pakistan cannot be wished away the matter should involve both countries settling the matter between themselves, peacefully and politically. But any such settlement should benefit both the countries immediately and in the long term.
Written by: Jamahir
Category cloud: Opinion, analysis
Therefore I present one solution as below. The solution is based on Muammar Gaddafi's solution for Kashmir to which I have added some bits.
1. Both countries should adopt the same Progressive political system. Two separate, independent republics but with the same political system, much like what pre-2003 Iraq and Syria were with their same Ba'athist systems. The Progressive political system can be the Direct Democracy Socialism system that governed Libya until the 2011 war. Readers can refer to these pages to understand how this system works. This system is called the Third Universal Theory aka Jamahiriya theory. In India, a form of Direct Democracy called Swaraj is being implemented in Delhi by the ruling AAP party and is also being forwarded by the Swaraj Abhiyan movement and there is no reason why it cannot be extended to Pakistan as well.
2. Let Indian-administered Kashmir and Pakistani-administered Kashmir remain with their respective countries.
3. Convert the LoC into an International Border that is accessible for trade, tourism and family visits.
All this will make the separatists in India-administered Kashmir to understand that their desire to join Pakistan-administered Kashmir is unnecessary because both countries will have become the same, politically.
Furthermore, with separatist militancy reduced in Indian-administered Kashmir, what will remain is regressive religious militancy or activism which can be controlled and removed with social support by progressives among the local population. The side effect will also be a drastic removal of the current military force which will lead to more goodwill for the peace project.
I speak of the troubles and concerns of Muslims in Indian Kashmir and I will also speak of the troubles and concerns of the Kashmiri Pundit refugees. There must be something like Nelson Mandela's Truth and Reconciliation Commission. I would like the refugee Kashmiri Pandits to be allowed to return back to the Valley.
The next step would be resumption of the Aman Ki Asha peace mission as well as resumption of food and clothing festivals to be organized in both countries.
If not for such a solution, how long would the Establishments of India and Pakistan keep up with this cross-border hate? For another 50 years? 100? Until a reformed UNO decides to send in a military arbitrator force? And would the people of both countries not like the money and other resources spent by their respective militaries in positioning against each other to be spent on making each others countries a welfare state where there are things like high quality free medical system like in Cuba?
An important point is that the given solution will not only benefit the Kashmiri's but also will bring progress to India and Pakistan - socially, economically and politically.
Lastly, to extend a point about direct democracy socialism, It worked in Libya and it is being implemented in Venezuela ( the consejos comunales - communal councils ). Two different kinds of countries, ethnically and geographically. No reason why India and Pakistan cannot adopt the system given the fact that both countries have so much in common. And just Direct Democracy without the socialism part has been the system in Switzerland for long.
_______________________________________________________________________
Disclaimer: The post only represents writer's own point of views. The post do not represent point of views of Pakistan Defence management. Pakistan Defence Team will not be responsible for disagreements.
_______________________________________________________________________
Credits: The post is written by Jamahir, India. The proof reading and some other editing has been done by Think Tank Analyst, Forcetrip. The final formatting, editing and picture uploading is done by Slav Defence., Think Tank Vice Chairman.
DR bro,it seems to be same what mr parvez Musharraf & mr vajpayee tried in 2003 by Agra summit,it didn't work then neither it is going to work now or in future.
Try to understand basic thing.why kashmiris mainly muslims hate India
why Kashmiri mainly Hindu pandit or dogra hate Pakistan...
just answer me that....here lies the solution...be practical...no fairytales....you can think ethical too but in positive manner...plz answer me what makes Kashmiri muslims to hate India &a what makes Kashmiri pandits to hate Pakistan...what is it & why is it
New Recruit
Well bro I agree with you there are some Kashmiri businessmen doing business mainly Kashmiri handicrafts in different parts of world also in different parts of india,they might be having a positive views about india but at the same time you can't expect anyone to say against your motherland before you,it is obvious no one wants to create any unnecessary trouble,Now coming to mr Mandela you cannot produce such personalities in decades,it comes once in a century,I also agree lack of leadership quality is an issue in Kashmir but it is all around world these days.I don't know much about this. By whom was it not accepted ? The Kashmiri people in India ? If so why ?
If it is about the occupation force ( Indian armed forces ) then in the OP I have mentioned how to minimize them.
If it is something else please mention.
Why ?
In a company I worked in some years ago one of my colleagues was a young man whose father was Kashmiri Muslim and mother was Filipino. This colleague had no special hate for India. His family ran a handicrafts shop in which his cousins from Kashmir worked. As far as I could tell they too didn't harbor any special hate for India.
And in my city there are a few Kashmiri handicrafts / clothing shops. And every year a Kashmiri clothing seller visits my house to try to sell us his wares. They too are Muslim.
I am saying this because things can work out. Take South Africa for example. The Apartheid system was opposed by the Colored people politically and militantly until a combination of international pressure and internal dynamics led to the White government to yield governance to Mandela. So there are other places in the world where conflict has occurred similar to that in Kashmir.
What you can do is take impartial solutions like mine and make them get international publicity.
Well bro I agree with you there are some Kashmiri businessmen doing business mainly Kashmiri handicrafts in different parts of world also in different parts of india,they might be having a positive views about india but at the same time you can't expect anyone to say against your motherland before you,it is obvious no one wants to create any unnecessary trouble,Now coming to mr Mandela you cannot produce such personalities in decades,it comes once in a century,I also agree lack of leadership quality is an issue in Kashmir but it is all around world these days.
Let's come to the main point which you want to hear & interested in.Please listen carefully & don't make any remarks in haste,what I'm going to tell you maybe you won't agree or you don't wanna believe it or hear it or accept it whatever your knowledge or opinion is it may contradict with it,but please make sure you as a good human being are going to RESPECT it,as it is not only my view or opinion or so called solution it is FULL FLEDGED RESEARCH,A COMPAIGN DONE FROM DOOR TO DOOR,Now please hear it calmly.....
KASHMIRI MUSLIM HATE INDIA BECAUSE THEY ARE HINDU,NOW DONT TELL ME INDIA HAS SECOND MOST POPULATION OF MUSLIMS IN THE WORLD,A COMMON KASHMIRI DONT SEE IT LIKE THAT,NOW YOU WILL THINK OF KASHMIRYAT THING WELL THAT LOOKS GOOD ONLY IN BOOKS BOLLYWOOD MOVIES FAIRYTALES NOTHING LIKE THAT ON GROUND.FOR KASHMIRI INDIA WORD ITSELF MEANS HATE.IT IS GROWN HERE SOMETHING YOU FIND IN THE AIR OF KASHMIR,IT IS A PRACTICAL THING YOU WILL HEAR EVER FROM A KASHMIRII MUSLIM BUT IT IS UNIVERSAL TRUTH,NOTHING CAN CHANGE IT,IT IS SORT OF PALESTINE ISRAELI THING OF DIFFERENT LEVEL & DIFFERENT MAGNITUDE.
NOW COMING TO KASHMIRI PANDITS &DOGRAS IT IS VICE VERSA,THEY HATE PAKISTAN BACAUSE THEY ARE MUSLIMS,I CAN ADD THOUSANDS OF EXAMPLES TO PROVE IT...NOW LETS COME TO THE ONLY SOLUTION.
INDEPENDENT KASHMIR IS A MYTH IT IS NEVER GONNA HAPPEN...
DIVIDE JAMMU & KASHMIR ON ETHICAL BASIS,SIMPLY A MUSLIM DOMINATED AREAS SHOULD HELD PAKISTAN & HINDU DOMINATED SHOULD HELD INDIA.
MIGRATION SHOULD BE ALLOWED SAME WAY WHEN BRITISH PARTIONED INDIA & PAKISTAN.BUT WITH A TIGHT GRIP SO NO ETHICAL VOILANCE CAN BE CREATED,SAME WAY WEST GERMANY AND EAST GERMANY WAS CREATED AFTER WORLD WAR TWO,THEN ONLY KASHMIR INDIA & PAKISTAN WILL LIVE IN PEACE,ALL THREE WILL DEVELOP,BUT HAVING SAID THAT IT IS A VERY VERY DIFFICULT TASK,THERE ARE SOME ELEMENTS WITHIN THE THREE NATIONS WHO WILL NEVER ALLOW TO HAPPEN IT EVEN THOUGH THEY KNOW BY ALL MEANS THIS IS THE RIGHT SOLUTION OR MIGHT BE A ONLY SOLUTION TO THIS COMPLEX ISSUE....
New Recruit
Hello bhai, I read with relief your idea about any ethnic-based migration should be carried out without violence. And I see that the whole issue is an emotional issue for you. It will be that given the three decades of turmoil and injustices.
I myself am a Muslim living in the Deccan region and see with concern what is going on in the rest of India.
I want to ask your opinion about young Kashmiri leaders, especially two, Shah Faesal and Shehla Rashid, who to me have been the voices of Kashmir to the outside world.
[/QUOTE
Dr bro,INDIA & PAISTAN GOING TO SOLVE IT.KASHMIRIS ARE NOT QUALIFIED ENOUGH IN THEIR CHARACTERS TO BE PART OF IT.I DONT WANT TO MAKE INDIVIDUAL COMMENTS ABOUT ANY SO CALLED LEADERS.HONESTLY SPEAKING IM NOT PRO PAK OR PRO IND OR AGAINST INDIA OR AGAINST PAKISTAN,EVEN I DIDNT REPLIED YOU AS A PRO KASHMIRI.I JUST SAID WHAT IS GROUND REALITY.
New Recruit