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A Path to peace

Gufi: A very thoughtful post.

Just went through the whole thread. Interesting comments. I will try to highlight problems with the society as I understand them (Maybe I should start a new thread?). These problems and issues cannot be resolved quickly. It may take a couple of decades or even a generation to fix. Every Pakistani will need to play their part at home and Overseas. Remember reform starts at home. Educate (religious, sciences, ethics, honesty, unity, tolerance) oneself and ones family, friends, neighbours, community, city..... such a ripple in every city.
Create opportunities for oneself, ones family, friends, neighbours, community, city.... Cooperate with each other and hard work is the only way forward.

1) Education: The main problem is lack of education/knowledge be it religious or non religious. This in turn leads to problems such as extremism, intolerance, unemployment,..... etc.
Introduce education for all and free schooling till metric?
All Mosques and Madrassas should be registered and should be under the state control (Get rid of all the derh eent ki masjid i.e. mosques to just collect funds). All the mullana should be appointed like civil service people but please employee educated people who have the religious knowledge.

2) Unity: There is no sense of unity. People are divided in casts (Ch, Jatt, Watto... etc), regions (Sindhi, Punjabi... etc), religious sects (sunni, shia,...etc).
Take out the cast names of every ones name for a start?

3) Justice: Absence of justice. A corrupt judiciary means people do whatever they feel like. Whoever has money and power will abuse the system. No accountability so other problems could be linked to this such as bribery, dishonesty, fraud etc.

4) Police: Absence of a working and honest security force. People are vulnerable and they take matters in their own hands. People with resources abuse the system. This leads to gangs, robberies, killings, rapes..... etc.
What type of reform do you suggest?

5) Patwari System: A corrupt ancient system which is easily manipulated. Fraud is its second name (Speaking as a victim). This need to change. Adopt a computerized system similar to UK Land Registry.

6) WAPDA: This department is the most incompetent. Couldn't build a single dam for four decades. Wasted time and money and most of all water (it will be very precious in the coming decade).
It is essential that water and power resources are developed. Pakistan is already a water scarce country and unless we build more reservoirs and hydro power the future generation may not survive. (This could have its own thread to discuss ways to improve canal system to add more reservoirs to the system.... etc)

7) PIA and Railway need reforms and strip politics out of these departments. Maybe even partly privatize it. Similar to PTCL model?

8) Tax: Major reforms needed.

9) Political system: Politics in Pakistan is more like choosing between two families for a ruler or the Army. This need to change. Feudalism need to end as well.

10) Poverty: This is the main cause for many problems. Help people around oneself. Charity has been prescribed on all who are able. Spend the money wisely. Try to provide a long term fix i.e. employment.

11) Waste management: Toxic waste, Household waste and chemical waste from industries need to be managed properly with modern techniques otherwise the water resources and land resources will suffer greatly.

12) Ethnic minorities: Care for ethnic minorities. Respect other religions. Encourage diversity.

We just need a working system and it is up to us to make it work. I think there has been enough talk but no action. It is time for action. Everyone complains about the politicians and how they are corrupt hence no progress is achieved but I would argue that politicians are also part of a nation so if the nation has good ethos then the ruling elite would have the same/similar ethos. So rather then blame each other, it is time to act.

Sorry for the long post. Please feel free to discuss or criticize the points raised in my post.
Shah.
 
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Gufi: A very thoughtful post.

Just went through the whole thread. Interesting comments. I will try to highlight problems with the society as I understand them (Maybe I should start a new thread?). These problems and issues cannot be resolved quickly. It may take a couple of decades or even a generation to fix. Every Pakistani will need to play their part at home and Overseas. Remember reform starts at home. Educate (religious, sciences, ethics, honesty, unity, tolerance) oneself and ones family, friends, neighbours, community, city..... such a ripple in every city.
Create opportunities for oneself, ones family, friends, neighbours, community, city.... Cooperate with each other and hard work is the only way forward.

1) Education: The main problem is lack of education/knowledge be it religious or non religious. This in turn leads to problems such as extremism, intolerance, unemployment,..... etc.
Introduce education for all and free schooling till metric?
All Mosques and Madrassas should be registered and should be under the state control (Get rid of all the derh eent ki masjid i.e. mosques to just collect funds). All the mullana should be appointed like civil service people but please employee educated people who have the religious knowledge.

2) Unity: There is no sense of unity. People are divided in casts (Ch, Jatt, Watto... etc), regions (Sindhi, Punjabi... etc), religious sects (sunni, shia,...etc).
Take out the cast names of every ones name for a start?

3) Justice: Absence of justice. A corrupt judiciary means people do whatever they feel like. Whoever has money and power will abuse the system. No accountability so other problems could be linked to this such as bribery, dishonesty, fraud etc.

4) Police: Absence of a working and honest security force. People are vulnerable and they take matters in their own hands. People with resources abuse the system. This leads to gangs, robberies, killings, rapes..... etc.
What type of reform do you suggest?

5) Patwari System: A corrupt ancient system which is easily manipulated. Fraud is its second name (Speaking as a victim). This need to change. Adopt a computerized system similar to UK Land Registry.

6) WAPDA: This department is the most incompetent. Couldn't build a single dam for four decades. Wasted time and money and most of all water (it will be very precious in the coming decade).
It is essential that water and power resources are developed. Pakistan is already a water scarce country and unless we build more reservoirs and hydro power the future generation may not survive. (This could have its own thread to discuss ways to improve canal system to add more reservoirs to the system.... etc)

7) PIA and Railway need reforms and strip politics out of these departments. Maybe even partly privatize it. Similar to PTCL model?

8) Tax: Major reforms needed.

9) Political system: Politics in Pakistan is more like choosing between two families for a ruler or the Army. This need to change. Feudalism need to end as well.

10) Poverty: This is the main cause for many problems. Help people around oneself. Charity has been prescribed on all who are able. Spend the money wisely. Try to provide a long term fix i.e. employment.

11) Waste management: Toxic waste, Household waste and chemical waste from industries need to be managed properly with modern techniques otherwise the water resources and land resources will suffer greatly.

12) Ethnic minorities: Care for ethnic minorities. Respect other religions. Encourage diversity.

We just need a working system and it is up to us to make it work. I think there has been enough talk but no action. It is time for action. Everyone complains about the politicians and how they are corrupt hence no progress is achieved but I would argue that politicians are also part of a nation so if the nation has good ethos then the ruling elite would have the same/similar ethos. So rather then blame each other, it is time to act.

Sorry for the long post. Please feel free to discuss or criticize the points raised in my post.
Shah.


Best post of 2015.

  • extremist is any Imam who goes against the teachings of Islam
  • insults any other sect
  • insults any Islamic figure which may cause anger in other sects
  • passes fatwas on the killing of other people
  • uses his power to create any sort of militia
  • goes against the state
  • justifies the wrongful killing of innocent civilians

To be honest if you look at the population of Pakistan they are against people like the head of Lal masjid. There is extreme pressure on every Imam and there is a close eye being kept on what is being said
For every extremist Imam you hear about there are thousands of good Imams out there. A population of 180 million people there will be bad seeds and it our job to slowly root them out. There is no other way but certifying the Imams and keeping a close eye on what is being said.


Good but simply not possible!!! the points you made to label people as terrorists on these points are simply not possible to implement in current scenario.

Its better to go for more Islamic teachings and bring them as mainstream. It will change them.
 
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I will try to highlight problems with the society as I understand them
This post was dealing with the roots of terrorism and how to fight them with changes... You have listed some valid points but they are to improve Pakistan in general
1) Education: The main problem is lack of education/knowledge be it religious or non religious. This in turn leads to problems such as extremism, intolerance, unemployment,..... etc.
There needs to be a change in the pattern of teaching. There are very few non debatable topics in Islam thanks to the sects here. The only way to teach here is through the life of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
All Mosques and Madrassas should be registered and should be under the state control (Get rid of all the derh eent ki masjid i.e. mosques to just collect funds). All the mullana should be appointed like civil service people but please employee educated people who have the religious knowledge.
Like I wrote in the article there needs to be tests for the Imams and licences for them to lead prayer and a mosque, madrassah etc. We can not monitor every mosque the only way to change things is slowly weed out the extremists.
2) Unity: There is no sense of unity. People are divided in casts (Ch, Jatt, Watto... etc), regions (Sindhi, Punjabi... etc), religious sects (sunni, shia,...etc).
Take out the cast names of every ones name for a start?

oh i agree with what you said. Especially the last point... :)
4) Police: Absence of a working and honest security force. People are vulnerable and they take matters in their own hands. People with resources abuse the system. This leads to gangs, robberies, killings, rapes..... etc.
reforms in security are a long topic. But with the control on political wings organised crime will take a huge dip. The ideal situation would call for changes which we can not really afford. The only things we can afford is restructuring the current police laws to abolish the FIR system etc because frankly more policemen or better monitoring are things we can not afford.
5) Patwari System: A corrupt ancient system which is easily manipulated. Fraud is its second name (Speaking as a victim). This need to change. Adopt a computerized system similar to UK Land Registry.
There is slow progress towards computerization but with the current cases in courts it is taking time but most new property is being registered properly. Fraud is decreasing and now things are improving slowly.
6) WAPDA: This department is the most incompetent. Couldn't build a single dam for four decades. Wasted time and money and most of all water (it will be very precious in the coming decade).
I would not blame Wapda but the federal government for its weaknesses. Every project is divided along provincial lines and personal gains. Wapda is just blamed because we think they have control.
7) PIA and Railway need reforms and strip politics out of these departments. Maybe even partly privatize it. Similar to PTCL model?
PIA either needs to be privatized or an honest person should run it taking out the excess work force without political pressures. Ok just privatize it we never can have an honest man. Railway we should not privatize but fix. It needs an injection of funds and computerization of tickets. The amount of waste there is in Railways is astounding and the lack of any proper plans also is leading to its downfall. Plus the security situation and economic crunch with less people willing or able to travel has taken a toll. But railways should remain public.
8) Tax: Major reforms needed.
Implementation is what is really needed and yes agricultural taxes also.
9) Political system: Politics in Pakistan is more like choosing between two families for a ruler or the Army. This need to change. Feudalism need to end as well.
I agree but we can not force people to move on they need to decide that themselves. Maybe computerized balloting is what can help us
10) Poverty: This is the main cause for many problems. Help people around oneself. Charity has been prescribed on all who are able. Spend the money wisely. Try to provide a long term fix i.e. employment.
Population control and proper projects can help the poor not charity. Charity is temporary and proper projects is a life time of funds with jobs. You missed power generation which China is helping us with which will boost the industry and reduce the joblessness. Also proper tax collection will help boost new projects and create more employment.
11) Waste management: Toxic waste, Household waste and chemical waste from industries need to be managed properly with modern techniques otherwise the water resources and land resources will suffer greatly.
actually for a totally rudderless country we are doing ok with waste. Industry needs to filter things properly.
12) Ethnic minorities: Care for ethnic minorities. Respect other religions. Encourage diversity.
that i listed as a must.
We just need a working system and it is up to us to make it work. I think there has been enough talk but no action. It is time for action. Everyone complains about the politicians and how they are corrupt hence no progress is achieved but I would argue that politicians are also part of a nation so if the nation has good ethos then the ruling elite would have the same/similar ethos. So rather then blame each other, it is time to act.
sadly power in this country is held by politicians who are the businessmen and agriculturalists and any reform effects them negatively. They rather have slave labour working for them.
these are my views would love to hear your feedback
 
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Good but simply not possible!!! the points you made to label people as terrorists on these points are simply not possible to implement in current scenario.
short term we have to be very forceful in stopping these topics from being promoted at mosques. In the long term we can use education as a tool of improvement
 
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This post was dealing with the roots of terrorism and how to fight them with changes... You have listed some valid points but they are to improve Pakistan in general


There needs to be a change in the pattern of teaching. There are very few non debatable topics in Islam thanks to the sects here. The only way to teach here is through the life of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)

Thank you for the comments. Sorry for detracting the thread as I added other issues.

Totally agree with the reforms in teaching. Agree with teaching the life of Prophet (peace be upon him). I will also add Quran to the mix. Don’t just read it but understand it. It would be excellent if we tackle the taboo issues head on.

Like I wrote in the article there needs to be tests for the Imams and licences for them to lead prayer and a mosque, madrassah etc. We can not monitor every mosque the only way to change things is slowly weed out the extremists.

Yes I agree that is why I said that the process could take decades or even a generation. So eventually what I would like to see is all schools, madrasahs and mosques monitored (checks and balances) and should be run as a public service by the Government.

reforms in security are a long topic. But with the control on political wings organised crime will take a huge dip. The ideal situation would call for changes which we can not really afford. The only things we can afford is restructuring the current police laws to abolish the FIR system etc because frankly more policemen or better monitoring are things we can not afford.

Totally agree with abolishing FIR. I am not asking for more policemen but a mere honest and working force. Corrupt servicemen should be tried in courts and sacked with jail time if possible (hence I mentioned the Judiciary).

There is slow progress towards computerization but with the current cases in courts it is taking time but most new property is being registered properly. Fraud is decreasing and now things are improving slowly.

Yes I see some progress and hope the project is completed as soon as possible.

I would not blame Wapda but the federal government for its weaknesses. Every project is divided along provincial lines and personal gains. Wapda is just blamed because we think they have control.

I would disagree. I think Wapda is to blame for the most part. Pakistan has less water storage capacity now then it was in 1975!!! (Population was around 70 million compare to 180 million now)…. Billions of dollars were provided by the World Bank. They have not initiated a single large project. If one project is controversial at least look at other opportunities…. Build alternatives it’s not that there are no alternatives. They haven’t even maintained the canals and barrages….. No flood controls in place costing billions of dollars every couple of years. I Could go on……

PIA either needs to be privatized or an honest person should run it taking out the excess work force without political pressures. Ok just privatize it we never can have an honest man. Railway we should not privatize but fix. It needs an injection of funds and computerization of tickets. The amount of waste there is in Railways is astounding and the lack of any proper plans also is leading to its downfall. Plus the security situation and economic crunch with less people willing or able to travel has taken a toll. But railways should remain public.

I am not pro privatisation as strategic departments such as Forces, Police, Energy, Water, Airline, Health care and Railway etc are better handled by the public sector. But the fundamentals do not allow in Pakistan for this at the moment. So a part privatisation or Co-operation is necessary. The corrupt servicemen should be sacked and given jail time (once again a working judiciary needed).

Population control and proper projects can help the poor not charity. Charity is temporary and proper projects is a life time of funds with jobs. You missed power generation which China is helping us with which will boost the industry and reduce the joblessness. Also proper tax collection will help boost new projects and create more employment.

Exactly what I was trying to explain

I had added power generation to Wapda point.

sadly power in this country is held by politicians who are the businessmen and agriculturalists and any reform effects them negatively. They rather have slave labour working for them.

I understand this. I am hopeful that the next educated generation of these businessmen and agriculturalists will be a bit more forward thinking and agree to some reforms.

Some of these issues can have their own separate threads with discussions as well as some small scale initiation of cooperation. I invite everyone to have face to face gatherings and initiate country wide projects. Such a cooperation would revolutionize and speed up the process to a better Pakistan.
 
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Hi,

I can understand that---for you and Mr Rashid---Iqbal holds the light---but fr me coming back to it after 80-90 years and be still at the same spot---or worst than before----I would be ashamed to even mention that such a writing existed. ..Iqbal and his poetry's time was 70-80 years ago---now it does not mean much---the fantasy land that Iqbal delves into---does not exist any more---. The problem arises when he says a momin is not stung at the same place twice---so---our chance came and is gone---we are just ordinary people trying to find some sanity in this chaos.

I have heard many a sob stories about Iqbal and Iqbaliyat by the so called followers of Iqbal---. They have no concept where to start----just like our colleague Rashid----cannot think with a cool mind when facing adversity.

Brother I think you have not studied Iqbal or not properly. Kindly study "Iblees ki Majlis e Shura" in book "Armaghan e Hijaz". This poem was written in his last years and thus has very importance. You can easily conclude from Iqbal's ideas and besides there is many more about him and his contributions than just poetry. There is a continuous struggle. Kindly do not let this fruit to get rotten. His poetry is a sort of "Tafseer" for Quran. It brought revolution not only in subcontinent but also in Iran.

A nation only progresses by the ideas of its leaders. Many of his predictions have come true. I cannot find any man in the span of 500 years who can meet Iqbal's level.

@Gufi
Well written brother.
 
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@Gufi , good read. Nicely explained. So what, have you stopped writing or are you too busy?
 
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@Gufi , good read. Nicely explained. So what, have you stopped writing or are you too busy?
too many petty debates going on these days here... the bigger picture is lost... have written alot b ut not posted here....
Since you seem to have time to think these days take some time out and write on the future of religion and Pakistan, or the economic prosperity in Pakistan and the trickle down effect, or the decline of ground water and implementations of water saving measures in cities and rural areas, the lack of agricultural tax and its effects on the economy. We can then have debates, however constructive they are depends on the number of trolls. Thank you for your opinion on the article.
 
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too many petty debates going on these days here... the bigger picture is lost... have written alot b ut not posted here....
Same here. But i hope you post something informative. Hy, did you read my thread on how GB got liberated, i hope you did, it's quite informative. Who knew GB became a part of Pakistan on 1 November.
Since you seem to have time to think these days take some time out and write on the future of religion and Pakistan, or the economic prosperity in Pakistan and the trickle down effect, or the decline of ground water and implementations of water saving measures in cities and rural areas, the lack of agricultural tax and its effects on the economy. We can then have debates, however constructive they are depends on the number of trolls.
Last thing i want to start on is religion, trust me we have some people here on PDF. Anyway, i will try.
 
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Last thing i want to start on is religion, trust me we have some people here on PDF. Anyway, i will try.
Economy, diversification of job market, leave religion, I agree with you.
 
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Economy, diversification of job market, leave religion, I agree with you.
I really wanted to start writing on these sectarian or you could say targeted killings. Killing sensitive targets, really couldn't. Anyway, as i said, "i will try."
 
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