A Path to peace

[Levina]

Mind what you're speaking at boyo. You don't know us coward expats. These guys will do more for you and your country than you could ever hope to do at home. That is the truth. Do not act like you know us, understand us.

We're not acting as if we're above anyone. Living abroad has made us a learn a great many things. The reason I rant is because I care. If I didn't care, you and your people would not be worth my time. I've always been overly critical and harsh with Pakistan.

Also, re-read this:

Dont loose your cool jungi bhai, you cant really drill sense into someone in this virtual world.I'm sure you know that better than me.

The military was the fist to undergo changes that brought about a new era in Pakistan. Post 1980's Pakistan was a product of the same formula that happened within the military in particular. The issue of political instability, which is in my opinion, the biggest killer of stability was there before.

I havent seen a military rule other than Musshy's regime,in Pakistan. But I have often heard of how Gen.ZUH Islamised Pakistan and brought draconian laws to Pak.
But bcoz military by default is a very disciplined institution ergo most of what ZUH did bring economical progress to pak.This is how I view it.
I think Musshy was a lot more secular than his predecessors.

Allowing it to run matters of state and controlling society is deadly, as we can see.

Yes! Yes! And yes!!
I completely agree.
Religion should be kept out of politics.

 

[VCheng]

Yes! Yes! And yes!!
I completely agree.
Religion should be kept out of politics.

The problem is precisely that the religious brigade has made such inroads into all facets of national discourse that it wants absolute power. Even the Army that encouraged its carefully created image as the Army of Allah within its ranks has seen their narrative hijacked.

Rather than admit the errors of their ways foisted upon the nation, these factions are now doubling down: The solution to problems caused by religion is more religion, which, of course is like giving more poison to a corpus already dying from it, leading us back to the basic premise of the OP.

 

[Gufi]

Mind what you're speaking at boyo. You don't know us coward expats. These guys will do more for you and your country than you could ever hope to do at home. That is the truth. Do not act like you know us, understand us.

look from the get go you are agressive and angry but you expect respect for your rants. go rant on a thread you make for the purpose.
I agree with you religion needs to be taken out of politics but you can not blame religion for everything...are they very religious the governments of PML N or PPP???
To destroy things is destructive and impossible and hate filled rants are very easy.... Like i mentioned before you are a nice person mostly and most threads you seem very civil I do not know what got you angry but u neeed to relax

And we need to leave the army as it is.. Go search any army and you will find people disillusioned with it for some reason or suicidal or worse traitors.... We expect no problems and everything to be perfect which is wrong

 

[jaibi]

Very well written @Gufi excellent articulation. I see a bright future of PDF with guys like you! Kudos!

 

[MastanKhan]

please explain what you would like to say

Hi,

You know flares---they are launched and they light up the sky--they generate heat---they get the missiles to go off track from their target.

 

[Gufi]

You know flares---they are launched and they light up the sky--they generate heat---they get the missiles to go off track from their target.

yes sir but i am trying to understand the relationship you try to build with what you said earlier.. I am being told i am wrong by so many people it kind of muddles what one is thinking so a little more precise please

 

[Jungibaaz]

look from the get go you are agressive and angry but you expect respect for your rants. go rant on a thread you make for the purpose.
I agree with you religion needs to be taken out of politics but you can not blame religion for everything...are they very religious the governments of PML N or PPP???
To destroy things is destructive and impossible and hate filled rants are very easy.... Like i mentioned before you are a nice person mostly and most threads you seem very civil I do not know what got you angry but u neeed to relax

And we need to leave the army as it is.. Go search any army and you will find people disillusioned with it for some reason or suicidal or worse traitors.... We expect no problems and everything to be perfect which is wrong

Here's a simple lesson in the technicality of what just happened. It's one thing for me to have a rotten nature and rotten attitude to the subject at hand, that's my problem. It's another thing to quote people, accuse them personally of running away, or sitting comfortably.

I have been very calm in my responses both times, if I wasn't obliged to behave once in a while, you and that other fella would have heard an ear full from me about all those expat related potshots you took. No that's not just your problem then, it's personal, it makes it my problem too.

It absolutely grinds my gears to see some fellas over the internet taking such digs at each other. I am yet to say anything personal against you or that other guy. Don't take digs at someone like that and you won't have a pissed off person to deal with. Anyway, I'll let it go.

 

[MastanKhan]

Very well written @Gufi excellent articulation. I see a bright future of PDF with guys like you! Kudos!

And what have you written lately----anything original of yours on this board---or is it copy and paste as usual.

 

[Gufi]

It absolutely grinds my gears to see some fellas over the internet taking such digs at each other. I am yet to say anything personal against you or that other guy. Don't take digs at someone like that and you won't have a pissed off person to deal with. Anyway, I'll let it go.

You've said a lot of important things. Some I agree with, some I want clarification and elaboration. Also, the army's role is entirely secondary, if not completely dependent on other underlying factors. The front line of the war is in homes, schools and over dinner table conversations.

-You are to blame for extremism, you personally, not the America, not Israel, not India, not some world ruling race of reptilian aliens. You are to blame, then your pathetic loved ones are to blame, then your pathetic neighbors are to blame... your pathetic children will soon be to blame, for now their pathetic teachers are to blame, Mr pious know-it-all-fatwa-machine-insert coin-cleric is to blame.

-Your a lazy good for nothing bunch, excellent at taking everything for granted, completely the opposite of proactive, and love to blame others when things go wrong.[/QUOTE]
This was your first post so do not act like you started off civilly and any one made this about others....

I have been very calm in my responses both times, if I wasn't obliged to behave once in a while, you and that other fella would have heard an ear full from me about all those expat related potshots you took. No that's not just your problem then, it's personal, it makes it my problem too.

you think you have shown restraint you should have apologized...

 

[Jungibaaz]

you think you have shown restraint you should have apologized...

This. Entire post. WAS. Intended at Pakistanis. In. General.
Not you. Nor was it personal. I even edited my post to make that clear, in case you still haven't got it, for the nth time.

Do you have comprehension issues?

^see, now that was personal, see the difference?

 

[Gufi]

This. Entire post. WAS. Intended at Pakistanis. In. General.

i am Pakistani and I wrote this ergo it is personal. Comprehending the word you is very simple
i will not debate you but how you have behaved is not the least bit civil... when you talked about Pakistanis at general who are inside Pakistan i returned the favor and stereotyped those outside Pakistan
do not dish out what you can not take...

 

[MastanKhan]

yes sir but i am trying to understand the relationship you try to build with what you said earlier.. I am being told i am wrong by so many people it kind of muddles what one is thinking so a little more precise please

Hi,

You got praises from readers and you have lost your focus---I wrote to you that you have missed the most important of the issues.

You want to conquer the Taliban mindset----then you needed to find out what attracts the average people to the Taliban.

The only one thing that makes or breaks the Taliban is quick justice of the Taliban---. You provide quick justice---then everything else falls into its place.

In your post you built monuments----thousands of others have built those monuments in their minds but have failed---and so will yours as well because you are not addressing the fundamental core issue---.

Nothing fixes a crime ridden society like hanging corpses----to fix Pakistan---you have to go to the extreme---because pakistani are basically a very criminal minded society----. They only understand one thing---the rest are all subtleties that they will deavouer without belching.

 

[Gufi]

The only one thing that makes or breaks the Taliban is quick justice of the Taliban---. You provide quick justice---then everything else falls into its place.

quick justice I agree should have been mentioned

You got praises from readers and you have lost your focus---I wrote to you that you have missed the most important of the issues.

please read post number 70 to see what praise i have gotten Khan saab

 

[Jungibaaz]

i am Pakistani and I wrote this ergo it is personal. Comprehending the word you is very simple
i will not debate you but how you have behaved is not the least bit civil... when you talked about Pakistanis at general who are inside Pakistan i returned the favor and stereotyped those outside Pakistan
do not dish out what you can not take...

I made no distinction between Pakistani beached on the shores of another unfortunate country or you flag waving patriots back home. We're all the same when it comes to these issues. You're making this distinction on your own, not me.
If you found my post unsavoury, then report it for God sake, ignore it, challenge it, instead you pulled the expat card, outta nowhere. And then the other fella did too. Forgive me if I don't give a crap about pleasantries, it's my way of hammering a thorny issues that clearly causes so much butthurt among people.

And for the last time, you wrote an article, I said it was a good start and then gave my own input in my own special way on the topic, not you. If you can't hep that, then we've got nothing to talk about.

 

[MastanKhan]

Dear Iqbal is all times relevant in context of Pakistan for me he is no old story he is needed more in these times.

And I am sorry to all expat Pakistanis and you. I should not have said what I said but somehow a Khan made my temper go up. I will most happily share my background and intro but not on Public forum.

Hi,

I understand what you said---there is nothing personal---the goal is to move Pakistan forward. I wish you had worked in a foreign land---. I wish that good Pakistanis who had the opportunity to work in a foreign land but stayed behind had taken the opportunity----then they would have felt my pain and understood it better.