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A New Strategy for Afghanistan and Pakistan

Well Obama needs to concentrate more on the US economy rather than focusing on these useless wars because the way the situation is panning out I wouldnt be surprised if the US goes bankrupt and they will have no money left for the wars.
 
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"We've tried bi-lateral before..."

Yeah, and uni-lateral before that when you ever-so-gently altered the demographics in 1947. Tribals and army stay-behinds quashed any plebiscite. Even the U.N. saw that practicality coming.

Never, EVER gets discussed in the narrative.

All the difference in the world and a darn good reason for America to recognize that if two can't reach accord, Kasrkin, then more than two sure as heck won't.

Bi-lateral is the only way from America's POV and well-considered after sixty-two years, thank you very much.:agree:

JFK is STILL aching from the spanking that both India and Pakistan gave him here.
 
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"Yeah, and uni-lateral before that..."

Your lack of knowledge in this regard renders your argument invalid again. The whole Rann of Kutch dispute was neatly solved through unilateral third party mediation, as was the Indus Water dispute. Both these flashpoints and the inevitable wars they would have lead to were averted because someone had the influence, and more importantly the will, to intervene and force a settlement. Makes sense politically too, as neither side is seen by its population as having been ‘bent’ by the enemy.

Kashmir is stuck where it is because India has been hostile to 3rd party involvement only in Kashmir; but they’ve certainly used it elsewhere when they felt like to the benefit of all. However in Kashmir they didn’t even tolerate an effective UN observer mission.

Like I said, I’m not here to attribute blame but drowning the whole process over a technicality is a pathetic attempt to ignore an obvious way to resolve the issue once and for all. What you’ve provided is no reason the process can’t be kick started, and it certainly is no reason it wouldn’t work. Musharraf in his day did try to circumvent this little glitch by expressing a willingness to withdraw all Pakistani forces from Kashmir if India was willing to do the same. The Indians didn’t even bother with a reply.

You’re just towing the Indian line, which is frankly not a very good one.
 
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"You’re just towing the Indian line..."

No. I'm following the American argument that there can be no implemented agreement that doesn't have the full concurrence of the involved parties-India and Pakistan with the due considerations of the indigenous Kashmiris.

"Your lack of knowledge in this regard renders your argument invalid again."

Your "one size fits all" approach is the problem here. Is that "knowledge"? You've no sense of the American rationale and that's fine. You're not supposed to and have been successfully programmed accordingly.

In any case bi-lateral negotiations is America's position and Pakistan can adjust accordingly as it sees fit. Shouldn't be hard. America's position here hasn't changed for eons and won't likely even now.:usflag:
 
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Editorial: President Obama’s Afghan war roadmap

March 29, 2009

US President Barack Obama announced his Afghan war strategy on Friday and said things that have both pleased and annoyed different factions of opinion in Pakistan and Afghanistan at the same time. His assertion that “Al Qaeda was a cancer inside Pakistan that was devouring it” doesn’t sit well with people who think Al Qaeda doesn’t exist and, if it does, it represents no danger to Pakistan. His reference to the “blank cheque” that is not to be given to Pakistan has convinced some that this is a tactic of pressure and a harbinger of a tough policy to come from Washington.

But the important fact is that President Asif Zardari has welcomed the new policy and stated that he was consulted on it beforehand. Clearly, it is that part of the package that mentions giving $1.5 billion annually to Pakistan for development in the civilian sector that has appealed to him most. The welcome expressed by Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani springs from a similar consideration. Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi, tackling the difficult aspects of a “regional” approach to the Afghan war in China and Holland, has also expressed approval of the policy, although just a day earlier our Foreign Office was growling over the drone attacks and suggesting that it didn’t care too much about US economic assistance.

The opponents of the “new package”, tripled from what was received by General Pervez Musharraf after he signed on the dotted line after 9/11, complain about the violation of Pakistan’s “sovereignty” through drone attacks to which, significantly, Mr Obama has made no reference. As if receiving a “blank cheque” were a morally correct thing to do, they see in his words a threat of further US intrusion in Pakistan’s domestic affairs. Somehow, “sovereignty” seems to be making a comeback in all homespun nationalist criticism of the US but the same critics are silent over Pakistan’s large chunks of lost territory to non-US “foreigners and anti-state locals” in the tribal areas and in Swat.

What has most upset local critics of President Obama’s plan of action is his comment that “Al Qaeda is actively planning attacks on the US from safe havens in Pakistan. To the terrorists who oppose us, my message is: we will defeat you. We will insist that action be taken, one way or another”, implying that the US intends to act on intelligence against terrorists if Pakistan does not. No reference has been made to the Taliban, perhaps keeping in view the strategic sensitivities of the Pakistan army which our civilian rulers in Pakistan do not fully accept as legitimate national interest.

But the biggest challenge confronting Pakistan in the days to come is actually a challenge to the way the Pakistan army thinks. And it is going to come from the “regional approach” supported by Foreign Minister Qureshi, perhaps on the assumption that Pakistan will have a veto on what the final regional solution to the Afghan crisis is going to be. President Obama says a new “contact group” will be set up which will include Iran in addition to India, China and Russia. All the four “neighbours” in this regional contact group have views that do not fully gibe with Pakistan’s military thinking about the post-conflict status quo in Afghanistan. China, Iran, India and Russia stand behind the Central Asian States that oppose any repetition or extension of the rule of Taliban.

The regional consensus will not be in favour of the dominance of Afghanistan by the Taliban. If Pakistan stands against it, it will be isolated and will not be able to pursue the sort of “military solution” it embraced under General Zia-ul Haq when the Soviet forces wanted to leave Afghanistan after agreeing to a pluralist interim government in Kabul. From 1996 onwards, Pakistan stood isolated in the world when it recognised the Taliban government of Mullah Umar together with Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States while the world stood aside and abominated the savagery of the Taliban government. The invasion of Afghanistan after 9/11 delivered the last international verdict: Pakistan must adjust to living without the doctrine of “strategic depth” in Afghanistan against India and settle instead for a “neutral Afghanistan” that is at peace with itself and with its neighbours, disallowing any of them from poking their noses into its affairs or using its space and territory to settle their scores against one another.

Once this adjustment is made, Pakistan will be in a better position to combat the scourge of terrorism inside its territory and help cobble a politically neutral Afghanistan with the regional powers and the US. Today, the ambiguity about the “good” Taliban and the “bad” Taliban is rendering Islamabad’s war against terrorism incoherent and self-defeating. The truth is that both kinds of Taliban owe allegiance to Al Qaeda and follow its policies after agreeing with its global aims.
 
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Its the trust-deficit btw PAK-US which needs to be adressed before applying any new strategy .
Both parties dont trust eachother thats why wel endup loosing this war .
One way America can win this war is to support those talibans like Jalaludin Haqqani or Gulbadin Hiqmatyar . They represent the real talibanic might under the command of mullah Omar. If some workable negotiations with these guys is done iam sure they will stop supporting AlQaida

However their key demand is that American and nato forces should leave the country which US will never accept.

Pakistan and SaudiaArabia can act as a buffer btw the Taliban and US to reach a workable solution. But in the end countries like Russia and China would never want the US to have its stronghold in afghanistan from where it can promote its influence on Oil Rich Central Asian States and their intrests .
So The war in Afghanistan is merely a proxy war btw the global powers in which America and its allies are left alone with no reagional support.
Even if they have a support it will be closely monitered by Russia and China..

Afghanistan is a strategik vacume which is used by its neighbours fiercly and US has entangled in it.
US has to understand this point rather than crying out ISI did this and ISI did that
after all it was the ISI which also helped it defeat the soviets which we considered as a threat to our national security. And if you study the way US and Nato came to afghanistan was also considered by many in th milleteray as a threat to Pakistan's Natinal Security. I mean the threats which they gaved "Either you are with us or you are our enemy " and " Wel bomb you back to the stoneage " . One can never forget this and torture which these statements gaved.
 
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India at that time also offerd US its airbases for CarpetBombing Pakistan.

So how can you expect us to trust the Indians
 
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Pakistan needs to vigorously pursue its own interests first for once. People will always think and plot. Strategies don't mean a thing. Especially, US strategies that are politically motivated and biased. They ought to be taken with a pinch of salt. The question is, has our leadership ever thought about their people's interests first? Have they acted or made a decision that was in the interest of the masses? Don't expect any miracles. No country on the planet can harm a nation when its leaders are united and steadfast for the greater good of the people and the land.
 
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Obama's domino theory

The president sounds like he's channeling Cheney or McCain -- or a Cold War hawk afraid of international communism -- when he talks about the war in Afghanistan.

By Juan Cole


March 30, 2009 | President Barack Obama may or may not be doing the right thing in Afghanistan, but the rationale he gave for it on Friday is almost certainly wrong. Obama has presented us with a 21st century version of the domino theory. The U.S. is not, contrary to what the president said, mainly fighting "al-Qaida" in Afghanistan. In blaming everything on al-Qaida, Obama broke with his pledge of straight talk to the public and fell back on Bush-style boogeymen and implausible conspiracy theories.

Obama realizes that after seven years, Afghanistan war fatigue has begun to set in with the American people. Some 51 percent of Americans now oppose the Afghanistan war, and 64 percent of Democrats do. The president is therefore escalating in the teeth of substantial domestic opposition, especially from his own party, as voters worry about spending billions more dollars abroad while the U.S. economy is in serious trouble.

He acknowledged that we deserve a "straightforward answer" as to why the U.S. and NATO are still fighting there. "So let me be clear," he said, "Al-Qaida and its allies -- the terrorists who planned and supported the 9/11 attacks -- are in Pakistan and Afghanistan." But his characterization of what is going on now in Afghanistan, almost eight years after 9/11, was simply not true, and was, indeed, positively misleading. "And if the Afghan government falls to the Taliban," he said, "or allows al-Qaida to go unchallenged -- that country will again be a base for terrorists who want to kill as many of our people as they possibly can."

Obama described the same sort of domino effect that Washington elites used to ascribe to international communism. In the updated, al-Qaida version, the Taliban might take Kunar Province, and then all of Afghanistan, and might again host al-Qaida, and might then threaten the shores of the United States. He even managed to add an analog to Cambodia to the scenario, saying, "The future of Afghanistan is inextricably linked to the future of its neighbor, Pakistan," and warned, "Make no mistake: Al-Qaida and its extremist allies are a cancer that risks killing Pakistan from within."

This latter-day domino theory of al-Qaida takeovers in South Asia is just as implausible as its earlier iteration in Southeast Asia (ask Thailand or the Philippines). Most of the allegations are not true or are vastly exaggerated. There are very few al-Qaida fighters based in Afghanistan proper. What is being called the "Taliban" is mostly not Taliban at all (in the sense of seminary graduates loyal to Mullah Omar). The groups being branded "Taliban" only have substantial influence in 8 to 10 percent of Afghanistan, and only 4 percent of Afghans say they support them. Some 58 percent of Afghans say that a return of the Taliban is the biggest threat to their country, but almost no one expects it to happen. Moreover, with regard to Pakistan, there is no danger of militants based in the remote Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) taking over that country or "killing" it.

The Kabul government is not on the verge of falling to the Taliban. The Afghan government has 80,000 troops, who benefit from close U.S. air support, and the total number of Taliban fighters in the Pashtun provinces is estimated at 10,000 to 15,000. Kabul is in danger of losing control of some villages in the provinces to dissident Pashtun warlords styled "Taliban," though it is not clear why the new Afghan army could not expel them if they did so. A smaller, poorly equipped Northern Alliance army defeated 60,000 Taliban with U.S. air support in 2001. And there is no prospect of "al-Qaida" reestablishing bases in Afghanistan from which it could attack the United States. If al-Qaida did come back to Afghanistan, it could simply be bombed and would be attacked by the new Afghan army.

While the emergence of "Pakistani Taliban" in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas is a blow to Pakistan's security, they have just been defeated in one of the seven major tribal agencies, Bajaur, by a concerted and months-long campaign of the highly professional and well-equipped Pakistani army. United States Secretary of Defense Robert Gates replied last summer to the idea that al-Qaida is regrouping in Pakistan and forms a new and vital threat to the West: "Actually, I don't agree with that assessment, because when al-Qaida was in Afghanistan, they had the partnership of a government. They had ready access to international communications, ready access to travel, and so on. Their circumstances in the FATA (Federally Administered Tribal Areas) and on the Pakistani side of the border are much more primitive. And it's much more difficult for them to move around, much more difficult for them to communicate."

As for a threat to Pakistan, the FATA areas are smaller than Connecticut, with a total population of a little over 3 million, while Pakistan itself is bigger than Texas, with a population more than half that of the entire United States. A few thousand Pashtun tribesmen cannot take over Pakistan, nor can they "kill" it. The Pakistani public just forced a military dictator out of office and forced the reinstatement of the Supreme Court, which oversees secular law. Over three-quarters of Pakistanis said in a poll last summer that they had an unfavorable view of the Taliban, and a recent poll found that 90 percent of them worried about terrorism. To be sure, Pakistanis are on the whole highly opposed to the U.S. military presence in the region, and most outside the tribal areas object to U.S. Predator drone strikes on Pakistani territory. The danger is that the U.S. strikes may make the radicals seem victims of Western imperialism and so sympathetic to the Pakistani public.

Obama's dark vision of the overthrow of the Afghanistan government by al-Qaida-linked Taliban or the "killing" of Pakistan by small tribal groups differs little from the equally apocalyptic and implausible warnings issued by John McCain and Dick Cheney about an "al-Qaida" victory in Iraq. Ominously, the president's views are contradicted by those of his own secretary of defense. Pashtun tribes in northwestern Pakistan and southern Afghanistan have a long history of dissidence, feuding and rebellion, which is now being branded Talibanism and configured as a dire menace to the Western way of life. Obama has added yet another domino theory to the history of Washington's justifications for massive military interventions in Asia. When a policymaker gets the rationale for action wrong, he is at particular risk of falling into mission creep and stubborn commitment to a doomed and unnecessary enterprise.

Obama channels Cheney and McCain | Salon
 
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US trying to give everything Pakistan needs: Holbrooke

LAHORE: United States special envoy to Afghanistan and Pakistan Richard Holbrooke has said the US would give everything that is required by Pakistan and Afghanistan to fight terrorism, a private TV channel reported on Sunday. “We are treating Afghanistan and Pakistan as a single theatre and address them in an integrated way. We are going to give them more resources,” Holbrooke said. According to the channel, Holbrooke told an American TV that efforts were being made to eradicate extremism in collaboration with Pakistan’s neighbours and for that reason the US was also in contact with India and China. daily times monitor

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
 
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"No. I'm following the American argument that there can be no implemented agreement that doesn't have the full concurrence of the involved parties-India and Pakistan with the due considerations of the indigenous Kashmiris..."

Exactly. And yet you project the 'only bilateral only hope' argument which would obviously exclude the voice of the Kashmiri people or of anyone capable of speaking for them (unless you feel the Indians should be the authority on the wishes of the Kashmiris:lol:). Third party involvement is important whichever way you look at it. You don’t know much so you were improvising. That’s why you picked up the Indian all-impartial-mediation/presence-out-of-question line. The American position isn’t opposed to third party mediation or facilitation unlike you, but it doesn’t press for it hard enough either.

”Your "one size fits all" approach is the problem here…”

No, that would be a good characterization of your approach through which you just tried (lamely) to label 3rd party involvement impossible. Pakistan wants a third party with leverage on both sides to come in and help out in light of the universal laws of human rights and self determination. It has worked in the past and there is nothing preventing it from doing so again; other than the Indian un-acceptance of the need for a settlement. This denial will dissipate if the required pressure is applied.

‘Bilaterally’ is only an excuse designed to stall the issue permanently. The Indians obviously don’t care much about their reputation in Islamabad. But if other capitals are involved we might actually get somewhere.

There is nothing you have said that suggests an impartial solution is unviable. The only problem is the Indians saying it’s our way or the highway, and you’re okay with that so you’re trying to argue for them (not working).
 
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Pak, Afghanistan will have to pay a price for the US aid
Sun, Mar 29 10:00 PM

London, Mar. 29 (ANI): Hamid Karzai and Asif Ali Zardari may have welcomed US President Barack Obama's new strategy on Afghanistan and Pakistan (now called AfPak in Washington), but experts have warned that both the South Asian countries will have to pay a fair price in exchange of the US aid.

According to Afghan President Karzai, the proposal for increased civil and military aid was "better than they were expecting."

However, the new American policy of reaching compromises with Taliban in Afghanistan, though touted as the best way of avoiding more civilian casualties, will surely invite criticism from those who say the loss of hundreds of Western troops has been in vain, The Independent reports.

Meanwhile, Pakistan President Zardari too backed the new US strategy, which will give his country 7.5 billion dollars in non-military aid in exchange of not letting terrorists use Pakistan as safe havens.

Zardari also accepted US suggestion of ending the political uncertainty in Pakistan by welcoming the opposition Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz Party's return in the key province of Punjab.

Yet the Obama administration's proposals are far from uncontroversial, the reports claims.

"We have a clear and focused goal to disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-Qaida in Pakistan and Afghanistan, and to prevent their return to either country in the future," The Independent quotes Obama, as saying on Friday.

Obama administration is believed to extend the contentious use of drone missiles into Baluchistan province, which is believed to be the base of many senior militants.

Expert claimed, in the report, that such a move would increase anti-American feeling, and would be very damaging for the civilian government.

"At this point the Americans feel that paying off Pakistan has not helped. So it's time to use the other tactic, and raise the cost for Pakistan of non-cooperation," said Ayesha Siddiqa, a military analyst. (ANI)
 
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MutualTrust is what we are laging.
I am in favour of building strong ties with US but US has to extend its Helping hand towards Pakistan a bit more like they do it for their european Allies.
After All its US which is our bigest economic Partner and without them we wouldnt have been able to defeat the soviets in Afghanistan which at that time was threatning to occupy our Land.
The way US wants the war in Afghanistan to go is vague , i mean success will come but after long long time of hardwork and devoted political and milletery actions.
Its a long and tough battle but if US wants to win it it has to adress the trust deficit with Pakistan And the Areas like Kashmir and the long Indian Rivalry.
 
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President asks US to provide drones
Published: March 31, 2009

ISLAMABAD (Agencies) - President Asif Ali Zardari has said he is satisfied with the performance of armed forces in the Swat operation.

In a chat with senior journalists here on Monday, President Zardari said his visit to China was aimed at acquiring special military equipments for fighting terrorism. “We have told the US that unmanned aircraft should be provided to Pakistan to carry on hits, he said.

The President said he was committed to the repeal of 17th Amendment.
To a question about long march, he said some people wanted to remove former chief justice Abdul Hamid Dogar through police that was not possible. “The government was awaiting the retirement of Justice Hamid Dogar,” he added.

Answering another question, he said: Some decisions in the politics affect the party standing. But future actions can undo this impression, he added.

When asked to comment on non-implementation of promises, the President said only PML-N Quaid Nawaz Sharif had complained in this connection. Other allied parties had no problems, he added.

Meanwhile, President Zardari is arriving here today (Tuesday) to attend the third Turkey-Pakistan-Afghanistan trilateral Summit to focus on increased cooperation on security, economy and development matters.

The meeting between the three leaders is aimed at discussing the ways to improve regional situation and making joint efforts for ensuring peace.
President Zardari during his stay in Ankara, will also hold separate bilateral meetings with Turkish President Abdullah Gul and Afghan President Hamid Karzai and discuss joint economic projects.

Turkey had brought the presidents of Afghanistan and Pakistan together at tripartite summits held in 2007 and 2008, where the talks aimed at reducing tensions over militant attacks along the Pak-Afghan border and to build trust between the two neighbours.

The Ankara Summit to be held at the presidential palace has gained further importance as it precedes the NATO Summit in France and the visit of US President Barack Obama to Turkey.

Turkish Foreign Minister Ali Babacan Monday told the Anatolia news agency that the trilateral meeting would focus on security and intelligence.
He said Turkey and Pakistan share a very special relationship. “Pakistan, in the past few years, have been facing economic difficulties and problems associated with security,” he said. About the new buzzword of ‘AfPak’ by the west, Babacan said, “We are worried about the definition of Afghanistan and Pakistan as a single region of terrorism and watch closely the domestic politics of Pakistan.”


President asks US to provide drones | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online
 
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" And yet you project the 'only bilateral only hope' argument which would obviously exclude the voice of the Kashmiri people"

Not at all. It is incumbent that both parties give due consideration to the aspirations of the Kashmiri people during their negotiations. Afterall, Kashmiris live within both nations as constituted.

"...or of anyone capable of speaking for them (unless you feel the Indians should be the authority on the wishes of the Kashmiris)."

What? Have Kashmiris swallowed their tongue? Wouldn't you welcome their voices in the course of your bi-lateral discussions? Of course you would! I'd imagine both sides would seek out their views to help shape the discourse. Seems obvious. India will find plenty of turncoat Kashmiris who've betrayed their muslim brothers for a few cheap rupees to sing the praises of their "occupation".

My guess, though, is that you presume the prerogative to speak for Kashmiris. Why, I can't imagine. Where I Kashmiri, one look at your voice for Baluchi or pashtu aspirations as part of a greater Pakistani vision might give me pause.

I'd want nothing to do with you, but that's just me...:angel::usflag:

The issue has never been mediated by a third party and there's sound reason for that. Why attach oneself to certain failure? Any reached agreement must be implementable. Thirteen important letters.:agree:

Be assured that America won't be mediating Kashmir anytime soon. Count on that regardless of what you might know...or not.

Thanks.
 
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