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A new Huawei phone has defeated US chip sanctions against China

China: Make 7nm chips.

Taiwan/West: 3nm chips

China is proud why again?
2nm now.....


A new Huawei phone has defeated US chip sanctions against China​

SMIC, China's top chipmaker, has manufactured a 7-nanometer processor for Huawei's Mate 60 Pro—despite US chip sanctions against China​

By Ananya Bhattacharya
Sept. 5 2023


One step closer to realizing China’s semiconductor dreams.

One step closer to realizing China’s semiconductor dreams.Photo: David Kirton (Reuters)
Huawei’s latest smartphone, the Mate 60 Pro, offers proof that China’s homegrown semiconductor industry is advancing despite the US ban on chips and chipmaking technology.

The new Kirin 9000s chip in Huawei’s latest phone uses an advanced 7-nanometer processor fabricated in China by the country’s top chipmaker, Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corp. (SMIC), according to a teardown of the phone that TechInsights conducted for Bloomberg.

Huawei released the phone online last week but didn’t reveal key specifications such as the processor design or the wireless connection speeds. China’s chip stocks started rallying on the speculation that the Shenzhen-based Huawei had engineered a triumphant return for its 5G smartphones using domestic chips. News reports had already teased this possibility in mid-July.

“There is hope that Chinese companies will be able to tide over the US government’s sanctions and restrictions on chip supply,” the government-backed China Daily wrote on Sep. 1

A brief recent timeline of US chip sanctions against China

August 2022: The US Congress passes the CHIPS and Science Act, a law that approves subsidies and tax breaks to help jumpstart the production of advanced semiconductors on American soil.
September 2022: The Biden administration bans federally funded US tech firms from building advanced facilities in China for a decade.
October 2022: The US commerce department bars companies from supplying advanced chips and chipmaking equipment to China, calling it an effort to curb China’s ability to produce cutting-edge chips for weapons and other defense technology, rather than a bid to cripple the country’s consumer electronics industry.
November 2022: The US bans the approval of communications equipment from Chinese companies like Huawei Technologies and ZTE, claiming that they pose “an unacceptable risk” to the country’s national security.
May 2023: Beijing bans its “operators of critical information infrastructure” from doing business with Micron Tech, an Idaho-based chipmaker.

Quotable: Gatekeeping chips is counterproductive​


One big number: China’s hoard of Nvidia chips​

$5 billion: The value of orders that China’s tech giants have placed with Nvidia for its A800 and A100 chips, to be delivered this year, according to an August report by the Financial Times. The biggest internet giants—Baidu, ByteDance, Tencent, and Alibaba—have placed orders totalling $1 billion to buy around 100,000 A800 processors. Given that the US is mulling new export controls, Chinese companies are rushing to hoard the best chips on the market to train their AI models and run their data centers.

Charted: SMIC stock jumps briefly on the Huawei teardown report​

What’s next for Chinese chipmakers?​

The TechInsights teardown offers confirmation that China has managed to sidestep some restrictions and elevate its domestic chip ecosystem. But this is not to say that US chips sanctions aren’t hampering China at all.

For one thing, the production scales and timeline for the processor used in Huawei’s new device is as yet unclear. That the phone sold out in mere days perhaps suggests a limited inventory of SMIC’s breakthrough chip. Huawei may also have used stockpiled chips made by TSMC, the Taiwanese chip giant. These chips could have been purchased before September 2020, when Washington doubled down on sanctions to block Huawei’s access to advanced chips.

Moreover, further semiconductor advancements could still hit a wall. The 7-nanometer processor remains a few generations behind the 4-nanometer chip that TSMC manufactures for the latest iPhones, for instance. And breaking past that 7-nanometer barrier will prove difficult without the chipmaking equipment of ASML, the Dutch giant that has been prohibited from exporting its cutting-edge technology to China.

For now, China’s domestic chipmakers have managed to squeeze the resources at their disposal to make better semiconductors using older tools. But without new tools, their processes will remain onerous and outdated, raising costs and lowering output. A company like SMIC will remain several years behind rivals elsewhere and struggle to make more breakthroughs—especially if more restrictions choke China further.

lol, if you mean by :"defeating US sanction"

is using a technology that existed 4 (or 5 if you count development stage) and pushing into the market 2 years late is "Defeating" then yes, you defeat US sanction by going backward, congrats.
 
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China: Make 7nm chips.

Taiwan/West: 3nm chips

China is proud why again?
"China won't make chips below 60nm"
"China won't make chips below 28nm"
"China won't make chips below 14nm"
"China won't make chips below 7nm"
And so on and so forth.

Nice to see copium up and about in this thread :D
 
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"China won't make chips below 60nm"
"China won't make chips below 28nm"
"China won't make chips below 14nm"
"China won't make chips below 7nm"
And so on and so forth.

Nice to see copium up and about in this thread :D

And Chinese chips spy on users
 
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2nm now.....



lol, if you mean by :"defeating US sanction"

is using a technology that existed 4 (or 5 if you count development stage) and pushing into the market 2 years late is "Defeating" then yes, you defeat US sanction by going backward, congrats.
The problem is it won’t be a moving goal post for long as there is probably one or two nodes after 2nm beyond which further miniaturization may not be possible.

China seem to be on path of achieving immersion lithography machine by around 2026 and may get EUV (or alternative) breakthrough a few years after that. At the same time they are making break through a in maskings and other related tech.

And Chinese chips spy on users
And others don’t?
 
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The problem is it won’t be a moving goal post for long as there is probably one or two nodes after 2nm beyond which further miniaturization may not be possible.

China seem to be on path of achieving immersion lithography machine by around 2026 and may get EUV (or alternative) breakthrough a few years after that. At the same time they are making break through a in maskings and other related tech.


And others don’t?
lol......That's what people said when they are making Pentium 450MHz back in the 90s saying GHz processor is a dream not a reality, or after Gigabite Hard Drive people claim they cannot go further miniaturize. It's always possible to miniaturize IC dies, the possibility are there, as for whether or not China can catch up to the West or TMSC that remain to be seen

On the other hand, whether or not there are future impact, it already does so to current IC production, because the west force the Chinese to reinvent the wheel, which both takes time and money to do, times mean they would have to overcome extra hurdle and experience a slower growth, cost on the other hand would be diverted to end user which mean it increase the cost for a unit, which decrease profits.

Whether or not that impact Chinese future IC production remain to be seen, but the damage had already been done.
 
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What I want to say, the effort of producing 5mn chip compared with 7mn chip is bigger, not smaller.

Because it must use different technic that China is not yet mastered, unlike DUV.

Yes, China one day will able to make 5mn chip.

But it will take longer.

Maybe, but I am very confident of Chinese ability, we have done the impossible before. Work hard and keep a positive mind, and then keep quiet. Huawei embodies this Chinese philosophy.

lol......That's what people said when they are making Pentium 450MHz back in the 90s saying GHz processor is a dream not a reality, or after Gigabite Hard Drive people claim they cannot go further miniaturize. It's always possible to miniaturize IC dies, the possibility are there, as for whether or not China can catch up to the West or TMSC that remain to be seen

On the other hand, whether or not there are future impact, it already does so to current IC production, because the west force the Chinese to reinvent the wheel, which both takes time and money to do, times mean they would have to overcome extra hurdle and experience a slower growth, cost on the other hand would be diverted to end user which mean it increase the cost for a unit, which decrease profits.

Whether or not that impact Chinese future IC production remain to be seen, but the damage had already been done.

Damn, Gary, you are cheering for chinkistan? I thought you hate the commies.

Imagine being Chinese and seeing your comrades eager to pay that 2x for so many Tesla Model Y's it becomes the 4th or 5th best selling car model overall in China for 2022 (and that includes gasoline car sales too 😱). :enjoy:

Exactly, imagine me seeing them supporting the Chinese supply chain. Doesn't matter it's Tesla or Apple, it is all MADE IN CHINA. lolol. We could have banned Tesla with tariffs but we didn't, why do you think we allow that? Just ponder for a moment?
 
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lol......That's what people said when they are making Pentium 450MHz back in the 90s saying GHz processor is a dream not a reality, or after Gigabite Hard Drive people claim they cannot go further miniaturize. It's always possible to miniaturize IC dies, the possibility are there, as for whether or not China can catch up to the West or TMSC that remain to be seen

On the other hand, whether or not there are future impact, it already does so to current IC production, because the west force the Chinese to reinvent the wheel, which both takes time and money to do, times mean they would have to overcome extra hurdle and experience a slower growth, cost on the other hand would be diverted to end user which mean it increase the cost for a unit, which decrease profits.

Whether or not that impact Chinese future IC production remain to be seen, but the damage had already been done.
It can’t go smaller than atomic scale. Unfortunately, that’s just physical limit. The future after that will be a mix of quantum, optical, analog and conventional.

At real 2nm (not marketing terminology) we reach 10-11 silicon atom scale.
 
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Becoz of 2:

1. China defeat US sanctions.

2. China SMIC 7nm / N+ 2 defeat US' Intel 10nm.
Because we did it despite all the sanctions. It's the SPIRIT. You bash us we stand up again, you bash us we stand again until one day we will hold your fist and punch you back.
 
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Right now Huawei is not telling anyone who make the IC. It may not be SMIC or SMIC with special arrangement. If US know SMIC make IC for Huawei, US may further sanction.

I may be sort of Huawei private fab.
 
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It can’t go smaller than atomic scale. Unfortunately, that’s just physical limit. The future after that will be a mix of quantum, optical, analog and conventional.

At real 2nm (not marketing terminology) we reach 10-11 silicon atom scale.
Again, that's what those people said, it's physically not possible

Picoscale Laser cutting is already a thing by the way, can it translate to die casting is another issue

 
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Again, that's what those people said, it's physically not possible

Picoscale Laser cutting is already a thing by the way, can it translate to die casting is another issue

We won’t have enough atoms, leaks due to quantum tunneling and even besides that you can’t cut an atom. Like I said at 2nm it will be 10 atoms, 1.2nm is 5-6 atoms. Than what?
 
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We won’t have enough atoms, leaks due to quantum tunneling and even besides that you can’t cut an atom. Like I said at 2nm it will be 10 atoms, 1.2nm is 5-6 atoms. Than what?
?? which atom you are using for this?

The atomic radius of Copper (Mostly used in IC) are 128 pm...and there are smaller elements
 
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