A Muslim majority Indus Valley Civilization?

[neutral_person]

I have a question for Indians: Where do they say in your textbooks the IVC was located??

Its located in India, Pakistan, Afganistan adn Iran. You should look at the map sometime.

Oh great, another thread on Pakistan's confused identity.

If Pakistan is Muslim majority, then by definition its civilization cannot be linked to Indus Valley Civilization, because last time I checked, idol worshipping is Haram in Islam and not many Pakistanis know Sanskrit, which were the two cornerstones of the IVC. The current Pakistani civilization of Islam/Muslims/Urdu is the exact opposite of the IVC civilization.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

Time permitting, I should like to respond to this at greater length than at present, but it is no longer considered scientifically tenable to divide humanity into races as such. The idea of a mythical Shem, Ham and Japheth having symbolized the three divisions of the human species is also not taken terribly seriously, certainly not in academic circles. Perhaps we could look at these issues a little later; I have to rush out now.

People following Abrahamic faiths do take the story of Noah seriously. I doubt you will be able to convince any Muslim that the stories of Noah & his sons are false. Even if a person was to look at the family tree of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), you would notice that his ancestor after Noah is Shem. I was looking at the issue from a religious point of view as established by the table of nations, so if you are not belonging to an Abrahamic faith; feel free to ignore the stories of Noah & his descendants. However, the other member's claim that most humans have Arab genes is completely false seeing as Arabs themselves aren't even a race, instead they are Semitic & North African people bound together by language. I am sure that is something we can agree on.

 

[vsdoc]

Great. Another IVC thread with Pakistanis rushing to embrace their pre-Hindu past.

And somehow manufacture a bridge to Islam while they are at it.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

Its located in India, Pakistan, Afganistan adn Iran. You should look at the map sometime.

The Indus Valley Civilization is based primarily around Pakistan. Just because its geographical frontiers included parts of India does not mean that every Indian has a claim to that civilization. In fact judging by the map that you posted, most of India has no claim to the IVC whatsoever.

Oh great, another thread on Pakistan's confused identity.

If Pakistan is Muslim majority, then by definition its civilization cannot be linked to Indus Valley Civilization, because last time I checked, idol worshipping is Haram in Islam and not many Pakistanis know Sanskrit, which were the two cornerstones of the IVC. The current Pakistani civilization of Islam/Muslims/Urdu is the exact opposite of the IVC civilization.

Just because Pakistan's religion is different does not mean that we have no claims to the IVC. Religion has pretty much always changed or evolved over time, you can't expect people to keep following the same religion forever. People follow the religion that they believe is true, it does not change their identity. Are you implying that the modern day Christian Greeks for example have no claim to the Hellenistic Greek civilization? Do the modern day Egyptians have no claim to the ancient Egyptian civilization seeing as how modern day Egyptians have a Semitic language & culture, & do not follow the religion of their ancestors?

 

[Bhairava]

Great. Another IVC thread with Pakistanis rushing to embrace their pre-Hindu past.

And somehow manufacture a bridge to Islam while they are at it.

I think you got misled by the thread title. I was too until I read the OP.

 

[vsdoc]

I think you got misled by the thread title. I was too until I read the OP.

I am too jaded to care to be perfectly frank.

 

[Bhairava]

Are you implying that the modern day Christian Greeks for example have no claim to the Hellenistic Greek civilization?

We have posts like this and then posts like this.

So which of you two give the correct version of Islam to us ?

I am too jaded to care to be perfectly frank.

Well given the recent spate of revisionism that is rife, I cant blame you.

 

[vsdoc]

Well given the recent spate of revisionism that is rife, I cant blame you.

Well, since Islam teaches that all humans are born Muslims, it stands to reason that the good folks of the IVC were devout Muslims as well.

They just didn't know it at the time.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

We have posts like this and then posts like this.

So which of you two give the correct version of Islam to us ?

Did you not read my response to that member's post? It's up to you to decide whatever you choose to believe. My sincere advice to you would be to do your own research by consulting unbiased & neutral sources regarding the spread of Islam & its values.

Anyway, I have got to go for now. I might not be able to reply to your posts for sometime.

 

[neutral_person]

The Indus Valley Civilization is based primarily around Pakistan. Just because its geographical frontiers included parts of India does not mean that every Indian has a claim to that civilization. In fact judging by the map that you posted, most of India has no claim to the IVC whatsoever.


Just because Pakistan's religion is different does not mean that we have no claims to the IVC. Religion has pretty much always changed or evolved over time, you can't expect people to keep following the same religion forever. People follow the religion that they believe is true, it does not change their identity. Are you implying that modern day Christian Greeks have no claim to the Hellenistic Greek civilization?

Firstly my response was to ICEWOlf who tried to claim IVC is 100% Pakistan's and not India's at all.

Greeks absolutely have 100% rights, just like Indonesia has 100% rights to put Hindu Gods in their currency to showcase their Hindu pasts. Difference is Greeks didn't make a nation on Christianity and neither did Indonesia on Islam, on the other hand Pakistan is a nation made on Islam alone (and in many ways bordering on dislike for Hindus).

Indus Valley is a civilization, its a set of religion, language and culture. In terms of a civilization, Indian civilization is (much) more alike to IVC than Pakistan. Present day Pakistan was invaded by Arabs, and in the process lost their IVC identity. The only leftovers in Pakistan carrying the IVC "genes" or "identity" are people like my ancestors who were in Pakistan pre-1947, but moved to India during partition.

The point I was trying t make to the troll IceWolf is that yes you can talk about IVC and be proud about it, but you will start looking slightly silly when you tell the real successors of the Indus Valley Civilization that you alone are the true heir of the IVC, when you yourselves have a civilization that is completely opposite to what the IVC had.

 

[Bhairava]

Did you not read my response to that member's post? It's up to you to decide whatever you choose to believe. My sincere advice to you would be to do your own research by consulting unbiased & neutral sources regarding the spread of Islam & its values.

Anyway, I have got to go for now. I might not be able to reply to your posts for sometime.

I saw your responses to him and it only made me all the more confused as, truth be told,I have met more of the Luffy500 type Muslims than your type.

They claim Islam is no just a religion - that you can just convert and be done with it. It is an entire way of life and your entire way of life, thought process changes with converting.

Anyway if you find peace of mind with what you are then it is not for me to worry about that. Luffy500 types be at peace with their idea of who they are and you be at peace with who you are.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

Firstly my response was to ICEWOlf who tried to claim IVC is 100% Pakistan's and not India's at all.

Greeks absolutely have 100% rights, just like Indonesia has 100% rights to put Hindu Gods in their currency to showcase their Hindu pasts. Difference is Greeks didn't make a nation on Christianity and neither did Indonesia on Islam, on the other hand Pakistan is a nation made on Islam alone (and in many ways bordering on dislike for Hindus).

Indus Valley is a civilization, its a set of religion, language and culture. In terms of a civilization, Indian civilization is (much) more alike to IVC than Pakistan. Present day Pakistan was invaded by Arabs, and in the process lost their IVC identity. The only leftovers in Pakistan carrying the IVC "genes" or "identity" are people like my ancestors who were in Pakistan pre-1947, but moved to India during partition.

The point I was trying t make to the troll IceWolf is that yes you can talk about IVC and be proud about it, but you will start looking slightly silly when you tell the real successors of the Indus Valley Civilization that you alone are the true heir of the IVC, when you yourselves have a civilization that is completely opposite to what the IVC had.

What about the Egyptians, don't they have a claim to their ancient civilization? Keep in mind that their language, culture, & religion is completely different from what it was in the past. Do you realize that the cross on the Greek flag symbolizes eastern orthodox Christianity?

Only the people who descend from the geographical boundaries of the IVC are allowed to claim that civilization as theirs, no other nation or people have any claims to it whatsoever. Modern day Indians do not speak the language of the IVC, as far as I know even the Indus script has not yet been deciphered. Most of the people I know severely doubt that the religion of the IVC was Hinduism. Hinduism itself is a religion with too many diverse viewpoints, & is more like a hybrid of all the beliefs & practices of the Sub-Continent. I am no expert on Hinduism, so if I have made any mistakes, do correct me. I don't know if this is true but I have heard that even a person lacks belief in God may call himself or herself a Hindu.

I know this isn't an extremely reliable source, but it does talk about the religion of the IVC.

PAKISTAN

I saw your responses to him and it only made me all the more confused as, truth be told,I have met more of the Luffy500 type Muslims than your type.

They claim Islam is no just a religion - that you can just convert and be done with it. It is an entire way of life and your entire way of life, thought process changes with converting.

Anyway if you find peace of mind with what you are then it is not for me to worry about that. Luffy500 types be at peace with their idea of who they are and you be at peace with who you are.

My idea of who I am is that I am a Pakistani Muslim of Kashmiri ethnicity & that I descend from Indo-Aryans. It's true that Islam is a way of life & being a Muslim means to belong to a spiritual brotherhood referred to as the "Ummah". Unfortunately some have equated the term Muslim as one belonging to a race or ethnicity, & that is completely false. Muslims are the followers of Islam, they aren't a race or ethnicity, anyone on earth can convert to Islam & call himself or herself a Muslim.

 

[Bhairava]

Phoenix, neither Egypt nor Greece were formed in the name of religion. Pakistan is only among two countries in the world that have been formed on the basis of religion. That is a crucial difference between Pakistan & Egypt/Greece.

Regarding the argument that only people who descend from the geographical boundaries can claim an heritage - tell that to a Parsi or Irani in Mumbai regarding who claims the Zoroastrian heritage of Iran.

Anyway we have been through the motions regarding this "n" number of times and I am not interested in taking this further. Peace.

 

[divya]

What about the Egyptians, don't they have a claim to their ancient civilization? Keep in mind that their language, culture, & religion is completely different from what it was in the past. Do you realize that the cross on the Greek flag symbolizes eastern orthodox Christianity?

Only the people who descend from the geographical boundaries of the IVC are allowed to claim that civilization as theirs, no other nation or people have any claims to it whatsoever. Modern day Indians do not speak the language of the IVC, as far as I know even the Indus script has not yet been deciphered. Most of the people I know severely doubt that the religion of the IVC was Hinduism. Hinduism itself is a religion with too many diverse viewpoints, & is more like a hybrid of all the beliefs & practices of the Sub-Continent. I am no expert on Hinduism, so if I have made any mistakes, do correct me. I don't know if this is true but I have heard that even a person lacks belief in God may call himself or herself a Hindu.

I know this isn't an extremely reliable source, but it does talk about the religion of the IVC.

PAKISTAN



My idea of who I am is that I am a Pakistani Muslim of Kashmiri ethnicity & that I descend from Indo-Aryans. It's true that Islam is a way of life & being a Muslim means to belong to a spiritual brotherhood referred to as the "Ummah". Unfortunately some have equated the term Muslim as one belonging to a race or ethnicity, & that is completely false. Muslims are the followers of Islam, they aren't a race or ethnicity, anyone on earth can convert to Islam & call himself or herself a Muslim.

There isint no proper translation of religon in the sanskrit or say hindi language. Hinduism is just a term coined. you dont have to follow god to be a hindu. Just do your *** job thinking that karma is a ****** and u r a hindu

 

[Don Jaguar]

Fazool thread.