A Look at Indian Army's Main Battle Tanks

[blufmaster]

your breeding rate is higher ?

Our breeding rate is high.................matlb indians mein pani nahi hai bechy paida kerny k liye.....Hmmmmmmmmm that's why apki beauty cutie Pakistani Mardoon ko pasand kertien hain.......... indian beauties Need Help.........we are available any time any where

 

[Keshav Murali]

Very to the point and with proof.
I want to ask u one question has the original composite armour of t-90m bhisma been replaced by kanchan armour?

T-90S Bhishma. I think they will call the MS the same. We've ordered 1657 T-90S and 349?? T-90MS.

Yes, Kanchan has replaced Russian composite and gave similar or better performance. Initially armour ToT was denied, so we decided to use Kanchan composites.

 

[Keshav Murali]

Also, the Al-Khalid ERA coverage and roof vulnerability photos I posted were done a few days back and done poorly. I re-did them today with improvements.

ERA:
h t t p : / / i m g 8 2 7 . i m a g e s h a c k . u s / i m g 8 2 7 / 7 8 3 6 / s e r a o n f r o n t a l a s p e c t . j p g (Remove spaces to get link of image)

Roof:
h t t p : / / i m g 4 . i m a g e s h a c k . u s / i m g 4 / 4 8 9 9 / a l k h a l i d r o o f v u l n e r a b i l i . j p g (Remove spaces to get link of image)

 

[Keshav Murali]

We need a dedicated light tank for our North East, weighing under 35 tonnes.

Why do you think we are buying Anders based platform from Poland?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I just read the full thing. Al-Khalid has separate ammunition bins in both the back and the side. Unsafe. It would have been better if they were only on one side. If you have ammunition storage in two different places both in the hull, you need blow off panels for one place and extremely thick walls for the other. I don't see any blow off panels in Al-Khalid when blow off panels have been spotted in Arjun MK.IA.

Again...22 stored in the carosel, rest are in the armoured bins at the back, side, no round is left exposed in the turret.

Armor protection is modular, allowing for quick battle damage repairs and improvement as more advanced armor becomes available or heavier armor is desired. Frontal armor is composite and of Pakistani design, with side armor being spaced; it is of a more modern design than that on the Al-Zarrar and lighter in weight. The turret front, turret sides, glacis, and hull sides have lugs for ERA. Attention was paid to land mine damage in the form of thickened floor armor. The ammunition is carried in armored bins, and virtually the entire vehicle has thick Kevlar anti-spalling blankets. The engine also has a thick bulkhead separating it from the crew compartment. An automatic explosion and fire suppression system is provided, and the crew has an NBC overpressure system; the engine compartment and ammunition bins have their own systems of the same sort. The Al-Khalid has a laser detection system that can automatically trigger smoke grenades to block the laser, and a radar warning system that can give the crew a chance to take evasive action.


Pakistani Tanks

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Now that I've found a way to bypass the links problem,

Let me back my claims up:

Flaws:

1. ERA coverage:
Al-Khalid's frontal aspect:


h t t p : / / i m g 2 0 0 . i m a g e s h a c k . u s / i m g 2 0 0 / 7 8 3 6 / s e r a o n f r o n t a l a s p e c t . j p g

You see that? Lot of area is left uncovered. That's not good. The solution: More ERA blocks. Compare this with T-90S of IA.

T-90S frontal aspect:

h t t p : / / i m g 5 1 5 . i m a g e s h a c k . u s / i m g 5 1 5 / 1 7 1 7/ t 9 0 s e r a o n f r o n t a l a s p e c t . j p g

More or less similar.

2. Roof armour
Al-Khalid's frontal aspect:

h t t p : / / i m g 4 2 . i m a g e s h a c k . u s / i m g 4 2 / 4 8 9 9 / a l k h a l i d r o o f v u l n e r a b i l i . j p g

Is this clear now?

See also Chinese Type 96:
h t t p : / / i m g 5 9 . i m a g e s h a c k . u s / i m g 5 9 / 3 2 0 1 / s 6 4 0 x 4 8 0 k j h . j p g

Complete redesign of turret as in Type 99A2 is needed. But modelling Al-Khalid 2 turret on Type 99A2 will be detrimental since Type 99A2 turret has very little space for composite inserts.

Well, I don't work at HIT.

Also, the Al-Khalid ERA coverage and roof vulnerability photos I posted were done a few days back and done poorly. I re-did them today with improvements.

ERA:
h t t p : / / i m g 8 2 7 . i m a g e s h a c k . u s / i m g 8 2 7 / 7 8 3 6 / s e r a o n f r o n t a l a s p e c t . j p g (Remove spaces to get link of image)

Roof:
h t t p : / / i m g 4 . i m a g e s h a c k . u s / i m g 4 / 4 8 9 9 / a l k h a l i d r o o f v u l n e r a b i l i . j p g (Remove spaces to get link of image)

You surely havent real the 478 posts in tht thread otherwise you wouldnt be making such claims!.... as for transmission... are you telling us tht lecrec mbts transmission used in AK is inferior? lol


And yes AK-II is under development and contracts with China and Ukraine have been signed... it will have 1500 hp egine,indigenous ATPS,new turret,more armour... etc

 

[Skull and Bones]

Why do you think we are buying Anders based platform from Poland?

The deal hasn't finalized yet, or has it?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

The deal hasn't finalized yet, or has it?

The news is from 2010..but again no follow ups... no deal signed nothing...

 

[Skull and Bones]

Our breeding rate is high.................matlb indians mein pani nahi hai bechy paida kerny k liye.....Hmmmmmmmmm that's why apki beauty cutie Pakistani Mardoon ko pasand kertien hain.......... indian beauties Need Help.........we are available any time any where

Ghar me bijli na ho to bistar me baithe entertainment ka wohi option bachta hai.

The news is from 2010..but again no follow ups... no deal signed nothing...

Yes, i'm tracking this Anders development quite closely, it was more likely to be a rumor by resident netizens.

 

[Keshav Murali]

Yes, i'm tracking this Anders development quite closely, it was more likely to be a rumor by resident netizens.

Actually, we gave out tender for 200 tracked and 100 wheeled (or was it 100 tracked and 200 wheeled) light weight tank platforms. Poland was selected for tracked option.

Again...22 stored in the carosel, rest are in the armoured bins at the back, side, no round is left exposed in the turret.

Even if rounds aren't exposed in turret, they are still vulnerable to being ignited if penetration takes place. You must understand this simple fact.

Why do you think M1 Abrams has blow off panels in two separate places even when ammunition is stored in thick(60-70 mm thick box which can resist spalling effect) armoured isolated bulkheads?

Because spall can still penetrate isolated ammunition compartment and cause explosions. Arjun MK.1A and MK.II have blow off panels while Al-Khalid doesn't. So Al-Khalid has a higher danger for crew.

 

[Keshav Murali]

You surely havent real the 478 posts in tht thread otherwise you wouldnt be making such claims!.... as for transmission... are you telling us tht lecrec mbts transmission used in AK is inferior? lol

And yes AK-II is under development and contracts with China and Ukraine have been signed... it will have 1500 hp egine,indigenous ATPS,new turret,more armour... etc

Did you even read what I said? ERA coverage of service Al-Khalid is average. And there is a vulnerable area that is exposed in frontal aspect. I said nothing about its transmission, nor have I mentioned AK-II.

You are posting nonsense without reading my posts, and it is extremely irritating.

And yes, I have read all of those posts. You do not want to accept the truth that Al-Khalid has weakspots, just like all other tanks.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Did you even read what I said? ERA coverage of service Al-Khalid is average. And there is a vulnerable area that is exposed in frontal aspect. I said nothing about its transmission, nor have I mentioned AK-II.

I just posted a picture of the entire AK mbt covered with ERA...which is not only light weight, but also more resistant to APFSDS, HEAT and HE-FS rounds and developed by Global Industries and Defense Solutions (GIDS).... and what frontal vulnerability are you talking about? i cant see the picture... but id love to answer you on tht aswell... and u can post links,pics after 30 posts.. As for transmission see your original post where you said tht AKs suspension is inferior..

As for blow panels... even leopard doesnt have them ... nor do T-90s... than again the blow out panel issue you're referencing is minor in the large scale of things.The blow out panels do not make as big of a difference as people typically imagine. Not to mention that it happens quite rarely where the tank is penetrated, the ammunition cooks off, but otherwise the penetration causes no significant damage. Not to mention even if the blow out panels work as intended, there can be a fire inside the tank from the ammunition....there are also factories like the low profile of AK... making it harder to hit.... again there are only 119 arjuns on order.... while u may work on mk-II... we are also developing AK-II... I dont really even know if blow panels exist in AK or not..... but surely @nabil_05 would know more about it...

 

[Keshav Murali]

I just posted a picture of the entire AK mbt covered with ERA...which is not only light weight, but also more resistant to APFSDS, HEAT and HE-FS rounds and developed by Global Industries and Defense Solutions (GIDS).... and what frontal vulnerability are you talking about? i cant see the picture... but id love to answer you on tht aswell... and u can post links,pics after 30 posts.. As for transmission see your original post where you said tht AKs suspension is inferior..

As for blow panels... even leopard doesnt have them ... nor do T-90s... than again the blow out panel issue you're referencing is minor in the large scale of things.The blow out panels do not make as big of a difference as people typically imagine. Not to mention that it happens quite rarely where the tank is penetrated, the ammunition cooks off, but otherwise the penetration causes no significant damage. Not to mention even if the blow out panels work as intended, there can be a fire inside the tank from the ammunition....there are also factories like the low profile of AK... making it harder to hit.... again there are only 119 arjuns on order.... while u may work on mk-II... we are also developing AK-II... I dont really even know if blow panels exist in AK or not..... but surely @nabil_05 would know more about it...

The ERA picture you poster sir, is of a prototype and not the service Al-Khalid. But there still is the roof armour slope. Redesign of turret is essential, and I don't see it happening. As for Leopard not having blow off panels, it has never needed them - Leopard 2 has seen no combat service.

Blow off panels issue is not minor sir, people who designed Merkava MK.III thought in the same way you did, no blow off panels and improper ammunition container storage. The result? Simple RPG penetrated top armour and everything went up, pressurized containers of ammunition storage were easily penetrated and ammunition was ignited and the whole tank burned out.

And Merkava MK.IV immediately received blow off panels - And no combat losses from penetration by RPG. I've done lot more research on blow off panels than you have sir, and the life of more than 50 people in the Abrams has been saved by blow off panels when IED exploded and ignited the ammunition. There was even a case when a M1 stuck in a bog was M-Killed (Mobility kill, tracks are taken out) and nearly out of ammunition was penetrated by HEAT round or APFSDS from rear?? twice and still managed to take out all the T-72 surrounding it. Without BO Panels, lots of lives will be lost on the battlefield.

Remember, armies consider trained crew more precious than the tank itself.

Actually, 248 Arjun MK.I's have been delivered, orders of MK.II have yet to be given. So it's not 119.

And yes, low profile plays a role. But Al-Khalid is taller than Arjun! Arjun height is 2.32 metres while Al-Khalid height is 2.4 metres.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

The ERA picture you poster sir, is of a prototype and not the service Al-Khalid. But there still is the roof armour slope. Redesign of turret is essential, and I don't see it happening. As for Leopard not having blow off panels, it has never needed them - Leopard 2 has seen no combat service.

It is optional... doesnt mean it wont be applied to AK... again its roof is very well armoured... it has era on roof and its armour is thickened with AV-8 Kevlar... it has much thicker armour than any other mbt in service including T-80UD... as for turret redesigning the AK-II will have it... also it as :

CREW BAY EXPLOSION, DETECTION AND SUPPRESSION SYSTEM

A military vehicle is designed for strength, its armour affording protection to the crew and giving them the confidence to perform in battle. But the possibility remains that penetration of its fuel tanks or fuel and hydraulic lines can lead to a devastating fireball, causing severe burning and toxic gas poisoning within milliseconds. This threat inevitably affects crew morale and it is therefore important to give the crew a means of surviving in the battlefield environment. The crew bay system is able to sense the incipient hazard and recognise it as an explosive fire within 2-3ms and to effect complete suppression in approx 100ms. It uses fast response sensors and rapid acting high-rate discharge suppressors. Because suppression has taken place in a few tens of milliseconds, the radiation from the fireball is harmless, the temperature rise is minimal, the pressure increase is survivable and, most importantly, the amount of toxic gas generated is limited to safe levels. The vehicle and crew have survived to fight another day. Crew bay systems are fitted to a range of vehicles including Leopard 2, CRARRV, Tariq, Al-Khalid, Marconi Marksman, T90, Leclerc, M1A1, M1A2, LAV25, C1 Ariete MBT and Chunma amongst others.
Army Guide - Crew Bay, Fire fighting equipment

Il reply to ur post later .. gotta go...

 

[Keshav Murali]

It is optional... doesnt mean it wont be applied to AK... again its roof is very well armoured... it has era on roof and its armour is thickened with AV-8 Kevlar... it has much thicker armour than any other mbt in service including T-80UD... as for turret redesigning the AK-II will have it... also it as :

CREW BAY EXPLOSION, DETECTION AND SUPPRESSION SYSTEM

A military vehicle is designed for strength, its armour affording protection to the crew and giving them the confidence to perform in battle. But the possibility remains that penetration of its fuel tanks or fuel and hydraulic lines can lead to a devastating fireball, causing severe burning and toxic gas poisoning within milliseconds. This threat inevitably affects crew morale and it is therefore important to give the crew a means of surviving in the battlefield environment. The crew bay system is able to sense the incipient hazard and recognise it as an explosive fire within 2-3ms and to effect complete suppression in approx 100ms. It uses fast response sensors and rapid acting high-rate discharge suppressors. Because suppression has taken place in a few tens of milliseconds, the radiation from the fireball is harmless, the temperature rise is minimal, the pressure increase is survivable and, most importantly, the amount of toxic gas generated is limited to safe levels. The vehicle and crew have survived to fight another day. Crew bay systems are fitted to a range of vehicles including Leopard 2, CRARRV, Tariq, Al-Khalid, Marconi Marksman, T90, Leclerc, M1A1, M1A2, LAV25, C1 Ariete MBT and Chunma amongst others.

Il reply to ur post later .. gotta go...

ERA alone on the sloped roof armour visible on frontal aspect doesn't make a difference against 250 mm+ certified penetrators. You need to have base composite armour, it's missing. I repeat again, ERA alone isn't enough. The Leopard 2 has 200 mm of composite armour over which a thick NERA layer is also placed. And they consider even that as insufficient.

Kevlar is not good tank armour, it is used in the interior of the tank as anti-spalling liner. Standard for ALL tanks from 1960's. Even later T-55 variants use Kevlar for anti-spalling liner.

As for the claim that AK has more armour than T-80UD, I'm afraid that's may not be true. T-80UD is one of the best armoured tanks of T-series and has all round protection MORE than the Al-Khalid initial version. On the other forum, we don't even care about the other tanks - just the T-80UD. And the T-80 that was supplied to you has uparmoured T-84 welded turret. Which makes it even worse for us. T-80UD is more than a match for our T-90S and even match for our T-90MS, I'm afraid.

As for crew bay fire suppresion and extinguisher, both T-90 and Arjun have it.

P.S. Read the following article written on T-80UD by one of our armour experts back at the other forum:

h t t p : / / g o o . g l / c G D d 4 (REMOVE SPACES TO GET LINK)