a Japanese version of trouble between China and Japan through history

[haidian]

After Nobunaga Japan was ruled from Toyotomi Hideyoshi. He wanted conquer not only Korea but also China and started the by far most gigantic attack Korea had ever seen. Korea suffered enormous destruction in that war and asked China for help. The Ming Emperor did send troops. So the army of Japan and the Army of China clashed against each otehr in Korea. The effect for Korea was more devastating than WW II and Korea war combined. Korea lost a large part of its population. Not a single korean city survived that war. One third of agricultural land was lost. Almost all of Koreas History was burned to the grounds. At the heights of that war Japan realized it can´t win that war and could only achieve to hold the status quo. Ming China also was exhausted and did seek for peace.

Peace talks were desastrous. It culminated in the fact that Japan did send a young aristocrat to China who acted arrogant and hostile infront the chinese emperor. He closed his speech with asking the emperor of China to sed his daughter to Japan as a whore. He did go home without results and the war went into it´s 2nd round. After few years Japan realized that Korea wasn´t worth the effort anymore and that war would not lead to anything positive and left.

http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=151874

 

[DarkElf]

Using another forum poster as a valid souce?

He closed his speech with asking the emperor of China to sed his daughter to Japan as a whore.

I seriously doubt this......

 

[haidian]

[quote="Akuma"
Too bad we were not able to teach China in the same extent. We partly pushed discipline and working ethics into them. But not as much as Korea. You see the result today. You have many productive workers in china but also many lazy ones. Lack in quality, corruption and so on. I think it´s time for some tutoring again.
.

Who teach who? Japanese culture is just a sub Chinese culture. we even taught you how to write and how to civilize, your written language, your eating style,your architecture...we taught you basically everything. everything you look at in Japan,you see influence of China.
The only reason you developed faster in the past is because you are a puppet state of US,which during the early stage of US occupation,they viewed Japan as just a piece of newly conquered land and almost part of US,so they moved their whole manufacturing base to Japan and invested heavily there meanwhile severed as a big market for those manufacturing products. during the same period of time China was cut off from the outside world,and even today,there is still a strict high tech restriction against China by the west. China only started to develop her economy from the mid 80s.
[/QUOTE]

haha,Japanese don't realize that they learned almost everything from China.

 

[eazzy]

^ True.

 

[BoQ77]

So where the US learn from ?
Anyway, Japan now at higher level than China in almost anything ...
So try to reach their achievements before insult them, ... am I right ?

 

[Fattyacids]

So where the US learn from ?
Anyway, Japan now at higher level than China in almost anything ...
So try to reach their achievements before insult them, ... am I right ?

No, you're dead wrong. We've sent a man to space, a rover to moon, ICBM....
Try to reach Japan's level before speaking on their behalf.

 

[elis]

Amazing japanese

I must say that my dream is to live in Japan

Back to the topic, a korean admiral humiliated the japanese with his turtle boats

 

[+4vsgorillas-Apebane]

Ah, the Imjin war. The Japs numbered near 200,000 while the Ming forces sent numbered only around 30,000. The Ming kicked the Japs out of Korea but got very little credit from the Koreans.

Amazing japanese

I must say that my dream is to live in Japan

Back to the topic, a korean admiral humiliated the japanese with his turtle boats

The Ming forces in Korea turned the war after the siege of Pyongyang. The Korean regulars were incompetent and corrupt and the final battle at Noryang point had many Ming ships fighting alongside the Koreans. We Kicked those Wa midget pirate people good.

 

[+4vsgorillas-Apebane]

Who teach who? Japanese culture is just a sub Chinese culture. we even taught you how to write and how to civilize, your written language, your eating style,your architecture...we taught you basically everything. everything you look at in Japan,you see influence of China.
The only reason you developed faster in the past is because you are a puppet state of US,which during the early stage of US occupation,they viewed Japan as just a piece of newly conquered land and almost part of US,so they moved their whole manufacturing base to Japan and invested heavily there meanwhile severed as a big market for those manufacturing products. during the same period of time China was cut off from the outside world,and even today,there is still a strict high tech restriction against China by the west. China only started to develop her economy from the mid 80s.

haha,Japanese don't realize that they learned almost everything from China.[/quote]

Dude, Ignore the revisionist Japs, they are not worth your time. They are not an equal civilization and time will unravel their strength, back to the tributary system for them. China is the guardian of the East, Japan is the disowned emo grandpa iradiated thrice over. Fcuk them.

 

[BoQ77]

You could do whatever you want ...

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

haha,Japanese don't realize that they learned almost everything from China.

Dude, Ignore the revisionist Japs, they are not worth your time. They are not an equal civilization and time will unravel their strength, back to the tributary system for them. China is the guardian of the East, Japan is the disowned emo grandpa iradiated thrice over. Fcuk them.[/quote]

They are still dreaming about the repeat of 1894. These island folks can only be talked with fist.

 

[Grand Historian]

Its quite funny how modern day Koreans try to downplay the assistance of the Ming though in reality King Sunjo begged the Ming to assist his country.

Dramas paint the Ming generals/soldiers as uncouth and enraged however the Joseon court was notorious for breaking their promises such as providing food for the soldiers and Yu Songnyong praised the Ming generals for donating food to the starving peasants.

If the Ming troops were incompetent then why did the Japanese get slaughtered when Wu Weizhong's troops shed of their Korean disguises?

During the first invasion Ming sent over 40,000 soldiers according to 懲毖錄 and less then 40,000 in the 經略復國要編 while the first relief force under Zhao Chengxun and Shi Ru only numbered 5000 so they were annihilated.

If Koreans really want to know their history they should learn Hanzi.

Some good primary sources:
明實錄
朝鮮王朝實錄
經略復國要編
懲毖錄
亂中日記

Some good English sources:
The Imjin War:Japan's sixteenth-century invasion of Korea and attempt to conquer China
Samurai Invasion:Japan's Korean War 1592 - 1598
A Dragon's Head and a Serpants Tail:Ming China and the First Great East Asian War, 1592-1598

As for Hideyoshi's arrogant demands they are:

1. Emperor Wanli's daughter would become the concubine of Hideyoshi
2. A trade/peace treaty between Ming and Hideyoshi.
3. Government officials of Ming and Japan were to declare oaths of friendship.
4. Four Southern Korean provinces were to be ruled by Hideyoshi's daimyo.
5. A Korean prince and officials were to remain in Japan as hostages.
6. The captured Korean princes Yi Imhae and Yi Sunhwa were to be held hostages.
7.Korean officials were to sign a treaty and abide by it.

 

[JSCh]

I guess all aggression that got defeated could be pathetically excused as "not worth the effort anymore and just left".

 

[GR!FF!N]

Ah, the Imjin war. The Japs numbered near 200,000 while the Ming forces sent numbered only around 30,000. The Ming kicked the Japs out of Korea but got very little credit from the Koreans.

wrong..Ming sent over 2 lakh(200 thousands) soldiers..

The Ming forces in Korea turned the war after the siege of Pyongyang. The Korean regulars were incompetent and corrupt and the final battle at Noryang point had many Ming ships fighting alongside the Koreans. We Kicked those Wa midget pirate people good.

Joseon simply played their game..they kept Korea independent while Ming Dynasty soon fell within half century.then they fought against Manhchus using same Ming...but what happened???Manchu took control of China,yet,Korea remained out of their hand.then Japan came and simply drove China's remaining influence out of Korea.

if you study history of Korea,its not Japan who invaded them repeatedly,its China,who breached their sovereignty repeatedly.

 

[Grand Historian]

wrong..Ming sent over 2 lakh(200 thousands) soldiers..

Come back when you can read 經略復國要編,there's no reason for Song Yinchang to lie.

Turnbull quotes from Japanese sources which were are separate clan records,these clan records greatly inflate the enemy side to show their valor,30,000 Ming soldiers dying in a single battle is ludicrous.

Joseon simply played their game..they kept Korea independent while Ming Dynasty soon fell within half century.then they fought against Manhchus using same Ming...but what happened???Manchu took control of China,yet,Korea remained out of their hand.then Japan came and simply drove China's remaining influence out of Korea.

if you study history of Korea,its not Japan who invaded them repeatedly,its China,who breached their sovereignty repeatedly.

Funny,Joseon Koreans called themselves 小中華 after Ming fell.

Even the name Joseon(朝鮮) was named by the Ming emperor.

Not to mention that they viewed China as superior ie 天朝,天兵.

So you're saying Japanese wako raids,Imjin War and the annexation of Korea isn't a sign of invasion?

When Han dynasty made Lelang and other commanderies there was no single "Korean" identity or state.

Even the Sui/Tang Goguryeo wars,was fighting between different "Korean" states.

Not to mention Goguryeo's language is debated whether that be Tungustic,Koreanic or Japonic no one knows,also Goguryeo had a sizeable Han Chinese and Mohe population.

Bohai/Parhae has nothing to do with Koreans it was mostly a Sinicized Mohe kingdom.