A Global Nuclear Winter: Avoiding The Unthinkable In India And Pakistan

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Buddy people to people relations is how "natural" alliances are forged. There is a reason the US gets on with the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

You're probably still relatively young but ethnicity, race and culture play a much bigger role than you think.

We've been arguing about this in circles for a while, so I'll just end with a few points to summarize my stance on this:

1. India and Pakistan are neighbors, we have no choice but to get along.

2. India has a no first use policy, we won't nuke anyone unless they nuke us first.

3. India will not attack and destabilize Pakistan because we aren't equipped to handle the resultant humanitarian/economic/security crisis.

4. Nobody ever looks to us (India or Pakistan) and proudly proclaims how some members of their family look like a typical desi. We need to grow a spine and quit putting foreigners on a pedestal. There are millions of light skinned desis, but there are hundreds of millions of brown desis too.

5. How will you ever "nullify" a nation with 1.2 billion people and the second largest standing military on earth? If we can't destroy you, you can't destroy us either. We both have nukes, we'll be fine so long as nobody does anything (too) stupid.

Don't agree. Pakistanis have one of the strongest international alliances in the world with China. Yet Pakistanis have a completely different culture and racial heritage to that of Chinese people. You may agree with good ties with Pakistan. But all other indians don't. So your previous posts are a non-starter.

 

[xyxmt]

If there was no nuclear winter in Russia or US why people think there will be one in the sub-continent.

 

[Spitfighter]

Don't agree. Pakistanis have one of the strongest international alliances in the world with China. Yet Pakistanis have a completely different culture and racial heritage to that of Chinese people. You may agree with good ties with Pakistan. But all other indians don't. So your previous posts are a non-starter.

Don't make the mistake of assuming a foreign power has your interests in mind. South Asians have made that mistake before, most notably with the English.

The Chinese have strategic/economic interests of their own. The same goes for Russia and India.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Don't make the mistake of assuming a foreign power has your interests in mind. South Asians have made that mistake before, most notably with the English.

The Chinese have strategic/economic interests of their own. The same goes for Russia and India.

They did help Pakistan become a nuclear weapons state which ensured our eternal survival. The British didn't.

They are investing in at least $55 billion in Pakistan with many more billions earmarked for investments in the coming years and decades. The British didn't.

As far as our relationship with China is concerned, there is NO discussion or compromise about it. Especially as far as indians are concerned.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

If there was no nuclear winter in Russia or US why people think there will be one in the sub-continent.

Absolutely right

Nukes are not war fighting weapons ; they are only meant for deterrence

Exercising this option is like committing mass suicide

 

[third eye]

To simply dismiss the aspirations and security concerns of other nations as "persecution" complex or unfounded only reinforces these nations perceptions that India(and Indians) are generally sanctimonious and arrogant without any regard for other people besides their 4 walls.

What are the security concerns of Pak with regards to India ? Kashmir is a self inflicted injury which has caused more grief to Pak than India over the seven decades. India has grown despite the K issue, the same can hardly be said of Pakistan.

It was a persecution complex that led to the creation of your nation ( though I may add I feel in hindsight the partition was a good thing to have happened, its execution was very poor whose effects are still visible). This complex was made into a USP by the PA to retain control over the nation.

If the love for K was to do with Muslims than why would East Pakistan have broken off ? I concede water would be a concern, it can be worked out .

Kashmir is not going anywhere , nor ever will. Both nations have to reconcile themselves to this fact . Then& only then will our region see peace.

Our animosity provides jobs & money to countless across the world while we suffer.

Until this attitude of being the center of the world ends, India will continue to face such issues of angst with neighbors.

What would you attribute the problems Pak has with AF & Iran ?

India is not the center of the world nor shall ever be, it just needs to put its head down & work to improve things within - the rest will follow. Its the harvest of terrorists that Pak grows which is coming in the way & patience is running thin.

Before anyone jumps to the conclusion that it will lead to war, the answer is NO. Not at least the shooting kind.

 

[SQ8]

What are the security concerns of Pak with regards to India ? Kashmir is a self inflicted injury which has caused more grief to Pak than India over the seven decades. India has grown despite the K issue, the same can hardly be said of Pakistan.

It was a persecution complex that led to the creation of your nation ( though I may add I feel in hindsight the partition was a good thing to have happened, its execution was very poor whose effects are still visible). This complex was made into a USP by the PA to retain control over the nation.

If the love for K was to do with Muslims than why would East Pakistan have broken off ? I concede water would be a concern, it can be worked out .

Kashmir is not going anywhere , nor ever will. Both nations have to reconcile themselves to this fact . Then& only then will our region see peace.

Our animosity provides jobs & money to countless across the world while we suffer.



What would you attribute the problems Pak has with AF & Iran ?

India is not the center of the world nor shall ever be, it just needs to put its head down & work to improve things within - the rest will follow. Its the harvest of terrorists that Pak grows which is coming in the way & patience is running thin.

Before anyone jumps to the conclusion that it will lead to war, the answer is NO. Not at least the shooting kind.

Again, the persecution complex. Please provide a proof of this very Indian invented term.
As for Kashmir, the masses can decry Muslims but the educated know it is about water and strategic positioning just as MA jinnah did.

As for security concerns, if the pangs of partition are any to show; India cannot accept a Pakistan(or any smaller former "piece" of greater India for that matter) with an independent foreign and economic policy ideal. That is the threat highlighted and shown in history.

East Pakistan is a great example to show how India exploited the mistakes of a ruling class in Pakistan to remove a security threat.

Persecution complex, that is a new one. As if all India and Indians wish for the rest of their subcontinent neighbors to do is take the beating and smile about it thankfully.
What arrogance.

 

[third eye]

but the educated know it is about water and strategic positioning just as MA jinnah did.

This is amongst the few acceptances I have read that K is not to do with anything but what you have written above.

Water can be resolved as has been since 1960 . Strategic position is something Pak has to reconcile to .

 

[SQ8]

This is amongst the few acceptances I have read that K is not to do with anything but what you have written above.

Water can be resolved as has been since 1960 . Strategic position is something Pak has to reconcile to .

Hence the security threat.

 

[third eye]

Hence the security threat.

Good luck

 

[Spitfighter]

Hence the security threat.

So what do you propose we do? cause asymmetric warfare has gotten us no where in 70 years