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A Forum Post regarding the Danger of Helping India Upgrading its Infrastructure

originally posted by below_freezing
what's the necessary tech? you mean the heavy machinery made by Sanyi Heavy Industries? or perhaps Zhonglian Heavy Industries?

what's one project that was built by Japan? Is it the Hangzhou Bridge or the high speed rail?

Since you are a senior member in this forum and your country is the strongest growing economy in the world....I would in reply ask a simple question and i expect you to know the answer

Do you know what is 'Globalization'?
 
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unfortunately I have to disagree with you on this point. again, chinese assume that " if we don't make infrastructure in india, others will do so ".

however, it is not so for many infras projects. The West (the US, UK and other major powers ) are in deep sh!t right now and in the forseeable future. They don't have the money to do it. In fact for most of them they don't even have the money and the will power to upgrade their own houses, ley alone others like India.

If China doesn't do it, no one will do. That's the key.:hitwall:

Is it really that tough to understand that no company is going to do stuff for free?! If the West is in 'deep sh!t', one would assume that they would be in a hurry to get contracts, and would even undercut their prices more than usual for that reason?

Maybe you've been taught that the 'glorious Peoples Republic of China' is a beacon of hope for the world since they go around like a National version of Mother Teresa building infrastructure all over the place?! Is this in the school syllabus too by any chance?

And maybe they haven't taught you about the numerous Indian companies like GMR Infra (Delhi Airport), Hindustan Construction Company (Mumbai Sea link), and so on and so forth?!?! China "verrryyyy gooood, India verrryyyyy baaaad", seems to be the drumming, eh?
 
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Since you are a senior member in this forum and your country is the strongest growing economy in the world....I would in reply ask a simple question and i expect you to know the answer

Do you know what is 'Globalization'?

What kind of reply are you expecting here buddy???
 
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guys, who has made the world class infrastructure in US and europe??

Don't you know, it's the People's republic of China! The Americans stole Chinese technology through the CIA and made such wonderful infrastructure, it's all there in the little red book.
 
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originally posted by deckingraj
What kind of reply are you expecting here buddy???

well the person i replied to originally was boasting about how some chinese companies were providing with the heavy machinery equipment that would in turn be used in Indian Factories......apparently not understanding the chain of supply in an increasingly global economic environment where source and destination of commodities vary over large geographic areas.
 
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cfact of the matter is china has world class capacity and capabilities in the infrastructure... but they can only survive when they get the business. india is providing business to them. and weare paying for it. this is business as usual. nobody is doing any favor to anyone.
 
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Funny thread.

I think I am the first to state what seems to be the obvious. conworldus is an agent of the Indian construction industry who with their famous chanakyan techniques to shut out the Chinese companies from the Indian Market.

On a serious note. Why would do you think Indian companies will not be able to match the Chinese in construction projects? There have been a number of large projects in India since independence, most of them involved construction by Indian companies.
 
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Well if we take help from China, we will get the same technology for cheap. There is hardly anything that China is invented (When compared to west).

The funny thing here is west taught China all of this, the entire industry of China was setup by west to produce same goods with cheap price.

Now these guys are talking as if they invented something.
 
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Chinese companies need to look further at bigger picture. A simple pros/ cons analysis will tell what they have lost by doing India's infras:

Pros:

1. an individual company gain some razar thin profit on paper, as India will negotiate the contracts to the last Rupee;

2. that profit (say in USD) is only assumed as pro rata. In the end, any market exchange rate fluntuation, inflations etc will easily wipe it out. India'corruption and red taps could also potentially wipe it out at any time (See UK vodafone's recent legal case).

3. some Chinese manual labours could have temporar employments in india, earning bottonline salary during project time.

That's basically it.

and maybe 4 : some Indians ( don't expect india govt though) would say "thank you , Chinese idiots, and now pissoff"


Cons:

1. raise up the costs of worldwide natural resources in the process. World's resources are not a ever-growing pie but are extremely limited. If India's infras are all accomplished, the market prices of all resources would shoot up to the roof - a big negative impact on CHina's existing and future infras cost.

2. help grow India's economy hence its millitary power - shoot on China's own foot in the long run. I don't mind China building up other countries' infras, say even Angola's for example. Angola at least has oil and mines ( even better than hard currencies) as collaterals to pay for it. Even if Angola's economy becomes as rich as Singapore's and its millitary might as powerful as Isreal's as a consequence after its infras buildup by China, at least Angola won't send an army to China's borders to kill Chinese and occupy Chinese land, now or in the future. However the same can not be said on India. We all know why.

3. hugh opportunity cost: an infras project normally goes together with bidding companies' own labours. Say building a road or railway, Chinese companies have to take Chinese workers with them mostly, as India nworkers are not up to the standard ( e.g. look at India's CWG games labours: amatuer families with dad, mom, untie, children, etc. lived by the roads and were building the roads. One can imagine their standard) CHinese mannual labours are consist of skilled young males instead. These Chinese young males are precious human resources acturally (both engineers and workers) and could make more money and have better opportunities elsewhere if they don't bid for India's penny-worth infras projects.

4. tie up Chinese banks' finance. Where India could have money to pay for all the projects? Nowhere ( see my recent comment on this in another thread about China's supercomputer). The fact that bidding companies will usually provide the corresponding finance means that the Chinese bidding companies (hence India's infras) would be financed by Chinese banks. However, Chinese banks could have much better use of these huge amount of cash elsewhere, for example hleping to fund China's own medicare and pension programs/investments, or acquiring African/Aus/Brasilain natural resources etc, rather than wasting in building some sh!tty roads and power stations from mumbai to bangalore...

5. a real and potential threat to China's low-end industries and correspoding employment in the mid term. China is climbing up the vale chain though, but it will take a long time. meanwhile , many CHinese are still relying on exporting to low-end markets to make a living. Multinationals such as Wallmart, Dell etc would take advantage of India's then brand-new infras by shifting umployments there instead, to jump start India's manufactoring industry. They will do so on the direct expenses of China. NO big name manufactering companies can afford to quit China for India in the forseeable future cuz India's infras are pathetic. Without the combination of China's money, expertise and man power, No country can build up India's infras on such a scale. No one can.

6. strategically put Pakistan in grave danger. Once India is up and running with its new Chinese trains on the new Chinese-built roads , highways, bridges and ports, hence with much higher level of logistic and transport supports, Pakistan would be no where near to defend itself in conventional conflicts. This would have much wider geopolitical implications and much higher price tags on all fronts for China.

Some Chinese posters here: get a grip!
 
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No matter how much you shout, you will not be able to do anything at all. China also got help from west to achieve what they are today.
 
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Von Hölle;1238156 said:
^^ You are seriously overestimating your worth to India ..need to get of your high horse!!

Exactly. Some people are already shivering in their boots, would love to see their faces around a decade from now.
 
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Chinese companies need to look further at bigger picture. A simple pros/ cons analysis will tell what they have lost by doing India's infras:

Pros:

1. an individual company gain some razar thin profit on paper, as India will negotiate the contracts to the last Rupee;

2. that profit (say in USD) is only assumed as pro rata. In the end, any market exchange rate fluntuation, inflations etc will easily wipe it out. India'corruption and red taps could also potentially wipe it out at any time (See UK vodafone's recent legal case).

3. some Chinese manual labours could have temporar employments in india, earning bottonline salary during project time.

That's basically it.

and maybe 4 : some Indians ( don't expect india govt though) would say "thank you , Chinese idiots, and now pissoff"


Cons:

1. raise up the costs of worldwide natural resources in the process. World's resources are not a ever-growing pie but are extremely limited. If India's infras are all accomplished, the market prices of all resources would shoot up to the roof - a big negative impact on CHina's existing and future infras cost.

2. help grow India's economy hence its millitary power - shoot on China's own foot in the long run. I don't mind China building up other countries' infras, say even Angola's for example. Angola at least has oil and mines ( even better than hard currencies) as collaterals to pay for it. Even if Angola's economy becomes as rich as Singapore's and its millitary might as powerful as Isreal's as a consequence after its infras buildup by China, at least Angola won't send an army to China's borders to kill Chinese and occupy Chinese land, now or in the future. However the same can not be said on India. We all know why.

3. hugh opportunity cost: an infras project normally goes together with bidding companies' own labours. Say building a road or railway, Chinese companies have to take Chinese workers with them mostly, as India nworkers are not up to the standard ( e.g. look at India's CWG games labours: amatuer families with dad, mom, untie, children, etc. lived by the roads and were building the roads. One can imagine their standard) CHinese mannual labours are consist of skilled young males instead. These Chinese young males are precious human resources acturally (both engineers and workers) and could make more money and have better opportunities elsewhere if they don't bid for India's penny-worth infras projects.

4. tie up Chinese banks' finance. Where India could have money to pay for all the projects? Nowhere ( see my recent comment on this in another thread about China's supercomputer). The fact that bidding companies will usually provide the corresponding finance means that the Chinese bidding companies (hence India's infras) would be financed by Chinese banks. However, Chinese banks could have much better use of these huge amount of cash elsewhere, for example hleping to fund China's own medicare and pension programs/investments, or acquiring African/Aus/Brasilain natural resources etc, rather than wasting in building some sh!tty roads and power stations from mumbai to bangalore...

5. a real and potential threat to China's low-end industries and correspoding employment in the mid term. China is climbing up the vale chain though, but it will take a long time. meanwhile , many CHinese are still relying on exporting to low-end markets to make a living. Multinationals such as Wallmart, Dell etc would take advantage of India's then brand-new infras by shifting umployments there instead, to jump start India's manufactoring industry. They will do so on the direct expenses of China. NO big name manufactering companies can afford to quit China for India in the forseeable future cuz India's infras are pathetic. Without the combination of China's money, expertise and man power, No country can build up India's infras on such a scale. No one can.

6. strategically put Pakistan in grave danger. Once India is up and running with its new Chinese trains on the new Chinese-built roads , highways, bridges and ports, hence with much higher level of logistic and transport supports, Pakistan would be no where near to defend itself in conventional conflicts. This would have much wider geopolitical implications and much higher price tags on all fronts for China.

Some Chinese posters here: get a grip!

looks like you are in england....are you teaching the english how to lay roads with the much advanced chinese tech for free, since the world is in recession and the british has no money to spend....

look buddy...no matter what you shout,,india has the money now and we have decided to take help from Japan. the US -obama is here trying get a peice of the pie(infrastructure projects) for US companies...and as for china...no one called them here ...your companies came here and bid for projects , they won them and are doing what they were paid to do...china is no way doing us any favour...we have never requested your help...you are having projects in inda coz you are getting paid for it ....and if your profit margin is low-hey we are not the ones who asked you to bid cheap....so if you have anything to rant about chinese companies doing infra structure work in India....go protest to your govt at Tinnamen square and then may be your voice would be heard by your govt and they will do the needful to put your fears to rest once and for all:devil:
 
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