A Forum Post regarding the Danger of Helping India Upgrading its Infrastructure

[Peacefulll]

do that then.

western companies will just charge you 3x the money while working 1/3 as fast.

Gee, I clearly said that my first preference is for Indian companies to grow. Anyone would think the same about his country - anything wrong with that?

Care to explain why hardly any Indian projects of significance have been executed by Chinese companies? Look at my list above - I can add thousand more projects to that list, both ongoing and completed. Everywhere it is either an Indian company/consortium, OR a Western/Indian collaboration. India does not have any policy against Chinese companies coming in and bidding, so it does look like Chinese companies have failed to win bids for any significant projects.

Even with this, if you guys open threads about 'perils of helping India', God help you. (lot of you don't believe in God I know, but just a figure of speech...).

No one is into international business to do a favour to other countries. Any Chinese company that bids in India is doing it for its own benefit, let's remember that.

 

[Peacefulll]

Of course no one is holding a gun to our head.

It's all voluntary, if you think your government should not do it, then fair enough.

I don't think my government should 'not do it'. I want the Government to pick the best deal out of the given bids, if it happens to be Chinese, so be it. Am not contesting that.

But what I am contesting is the fact that even when there has been no noteworthy project executed in India by Chinese companies, blog posts are being created about the perils of 'helping India'. And another thing I am contesting is the assertion that Chinese companies who bid for projects are doing it to 'help India' in some way. That's a real load of hogwash, don't you agree?

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

But what I am contesting is the fact that even when there has been no noteworthy project executed in India by Chinese companies, blog posts are being created about the perils of 'helping India'. And another thing I am contesting is the assertion that Chinese companies who bid for projects are doing it to 'help India' in some way. That's a real load of hogwash, don't you agree?

Yes I agree.

That's what you get from "blogs" though, you shouldn't use them as a reliable source.

 

[Tashkent]

China and many Friendly nations are ready to help Pakistan but before doing that Pakistanis should start helping themselves. We Pakistanis are acting like prostitutes. Demanding from Friends but destroying ourselves.

 

[xukxuk]

what a shot sight
totally disagree

 

[Tashkent]

Can my nation reply to my following Questions and can some genius of Pakistan (as every body think) can guide me in making a good choice. Why we support President Musharaf | Facebook

 

[dvk_1982]

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I don't want to translate everything because it is very long. For our Chinese friends here are some quotes for you:

"If India's rail system is at China's level, Pakistan will be as good as dead".

Another point is that vast infrastructure upgrade requires dollar or Euro. India can issue as much as RS bonds as it wishes, but no foreign company will take them. It must tap into its small forex reserve. Or alternatively India may issue dollar denominated bonds, but its sovereign credit rating is quite pathetic being only a few notch from "junk rating". So, China is India's only realistic option because China also offers financing. So, China has delievered fast construction, financing, low price and quality infrastructure to India and in return, has received only animosity, fraud, etc.

China should just leave India and give this pie to western companies instead. They will charge twice and even three times China's price, hire a host of maids and servents and live like kings in India. Chinese engineers on the other hand just want to get out. No one wants to actually live in India.

Also to add, we are not making a lot of profit there in India. The profit is so small because we compete our prices down to death. The Indian know it and they always lowball the price to Chinese companies, while setting up lots of traps in the contracts.

Conclusion:
1. No more financing to Indian projects. Let the buyers get their own financing.
2. Limit number of Chinese companies that can bid on one projects. Thus remove the self-defeating price competition
3. Lower the efficiency. No need to build things so fast beacuse western companies can NEVER build things so fast so why bother. Save the efficiency for domestic projects.
4. Absolutely no rail and road projects. Western companies can have them.
5. Limit power plant projects. Same to western companies.

Western companies will earn much more profit in India than Chinese companies. We should just recognize that as a fact and leave it be. There are many other markets in the world we should be focusing on.

More projects to Pakistan, Nepal, etc. There are far more economic benefit.

may be thats the reason why these dumb thoughts are coming up i n chinese think tank, india now is pushing to deepen its bond markets....

Rupee Credit Swaps Mirror Yuan With Asia’s First: India Credit - BusinessWeek

japan cudnt stop u from developing when china was nothing.. u think u can do sth abt indias development .. a timely quote from our PM manmohan singh - originally from victor hugo-
"No power on earth can stop an idea whose time has come"

the emergence of India as a major global power, an economic power, is an idea whose time has come.

 

[ThatDamnGood]

To Desi: Raj has left India with your greatest commodity -- English.

You are aware that Mandarin is now the number one foreign language elective in the US if I am not wrong.

(Feel to make any factual corrections, I do appreciate such. I certainly don't believe all Americans are dumb, look at those who supported Ron Paul. Pity them though.
But there are not enough of them. And also Ron Paul <> Tea Party.)

There is an expiry date on the utility of English. I am not saying that it is not an advantage but I would argue that there is an expiry date of that advantage.

 

[ThatDamnGood]

may be thats the reason why these dumb thoughts are coming up i n chinese think tank, india now is pushing to deepen its bond markets....

Rupee Credit Swaps Mirror Yuan With Asia&rsquo;s First: India Credit - BusinessWeek

japan cudnt stop u from developing when china was nothing.. u think u can do sth abt indias development .. a timely quote from our PM manmohan singh - originally from victor hugo-
"No power on earth can stop an idea whose time has come"

the emergence of India as a major global power, an economic power, is an idea whose time has come.

Goddamn right you are!
So lets all get along somehow hahahaha

 

[Developereo]

I think the CCP is doing the right thing.

What's the point of stirring up a conflict when there is no benefit to be gained.

So you'd be OK if the US built a state-of-the-art airbase for India at the Chinese border?

Wow insecurities, dude nothing is going to stop India from building the infrastructure. We have already built some roads, upgraded airports (almost all of them close to done).We will be spending 1 trillion on infrastructure in next 5 years.

I think you missed the point. They are saying India would have 1/3rd the infrastructure for the same amount of money if the work was done by westerners.

And another thing I am contesting is the assertion that Chinese companies who bid for projects are doing it to 'help India' in some way.

They are talking about the effect not the intent. The Chinese companies are there to make money which is good in the short term, but the long term political effect of these infrastructure improvements would be detrimental to China's foreign policy interests in the region.

In business you build up your customers, not your rivals.

 

[ThatDamnGood]

Hello, hello, what have we got here? Man, the Chinese arrogance never fails to astound. Even at this stage, when China is hardly close to "superpowerdom" and is still decades away from reaching anywhere close to Western levels - even at this early stage, look at the attitude! The arrogance on the lines of: "Let us not help India, and let us not have it build infrastructure".

Look here Chinese: Don't bid for Indian projects if you don't want to, no one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to bid for Indian construction projects. As though India cannot build infrastructure without the great China. And all this arrogance when your companies have hardly built anything significant in India (I can't recall even one project of consequence). Odd thing is, among all the major infrastructure news that we've seen in India in the last one and a half years or so, I can't recall even a single Chinese company having been involved in it. Delhi's new airport, Bangalore's new airport, Mumbai's sea link, more ring roads around many Indian cities, Delhi-Mumbai industrial corridor, Bangalore Mysore expressway, Manali-Leh tunnel.... everywhere it is either Indian companies, or Indian companies in collaboration with Western/Japanese companies.

So Chinese, once again: no one is begging you to bid for Indian projects. Personally even I would prefer that we let more Indian companies grow in this field, and incorporate Western standards in our country.

The contradictions in the post is well, ... . But China is bidding isn't it (though there is some opposition to it doing so in some cases like with Huawei, etc... so what arrogance are you ascribing to China?

 

[Markus]

So you'd be OK if the US built a state-of-the-art airbase for India at the Chinese border?

Just FYI -

Indian spend of $ 1 trillion dollars on infrastructure over next half a decade or so is primarily intended to upgrade the country's civilian infra more than military infra.

Hence, Chinese companies along with companies of other countries are more than willing to have a pie of it.

 

[Bhairava]

So you'd be OK if the US built a state-of-the-art airbase for India at the Chinese border?

huh..Excuse me??

We are not even signing simple agreements like CISMOA for getting aircrafts like the C-130J,but here you are saying the US might build airbases on the CHinese border.

You really have a very fertile imagination.

We are fiercely proud of our independent foreign policy and "India-first" approach and we are in no mood to let go of it.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

So you'd be OK if the US built a state-of-the-art airbase for India at the Chinese border?

No... not at all. Why would I be happy with that?

It's hardly something I can control though. Countries can do what they want with their own land.

 

[Abhishek_]

Collaboration between Indian and Chinese enterprise in developing indian infrastructure is always welcome. India can certainly use chinese skill in realizing its planned projects, and it would also benefit the govt. level relations along with china's public image in India.
However, if china decides to abstain from bidding (I highly doubt that) I still don't think GOI would view it negatively.

off-topic: Its unfortunate to see pdf members bickering over a minor blog piece.