A Comparison of maneuvering performance of UCAV KIZILELMA with 9 manned fighter aircrafts

[dBSPL]

Prof. Hayrani Öz published some comparative dynamic analyzes on MIUS(KIZILELMA) and MMU(TFX) aircraft on Twitter.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Hayrani-Oz

I tried to translate the relevant content for you as much as I could;

https://twitter.com/x/status/1540782360131768321

F35, J20, MMU, SU57 etc. manned combat aircraft have "numbered years" left against smaller "MiUS-KIZILELMA" type combatants. If this cannot be understood and foreseen in advance, this way will be taken again in the face of necessity, of course, if it is not too late.

"Large manned combat aircraft" should only be preferred in limited numbers for some strategic and tactical military purposes and "some technological advantages and benefits". Activity should often be shifted to "small drones" with a variety of mission and capacity as soon as possible.

I will briefly mention the reasons here over time. But the main reasons are the fact that the suitability, diversity and integration of "technology and capabilities of structural and propulsion subsystems" with various battlefield missions can/will be much more efficient with "drones".

https://twitter.com/x/status/1542084276673560576

MiUS ( Unmanned Combatant Aircraft System) and Comparison of the 9 manned warplanes (MMU, SU57, J20, EF2000, RFL, F22, F15, F16, F35) that you're most courious about maneuverability performance which is the cornerstone. While the manned aircrafts are still pushing their limits, MİUS are just starting the game!

Dönme Yarıçapı - Turning Radius
Dönme Açısal Hızı - Turn Of Angular Speed
Uçuş Hızı V - Flight Speed V
İtki Ağırlık Oranı (gerekli) - Thrust/weight ratio (required)
Dönme Periyodu - Rotation period P
Azami Ağırlık W mx - Max Weight W mx
Mevcut İtki T - Current Thrust T
Mevcut Azami fg - Current Maximum fg
AY - Art Yakıcılı - AY - With Afterburner

https://twitter.com/hayrani

PROFESSOR EMERITUS OF AEROSPACE ENGINEERING
THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY COLUMBUS OHIO USA

@Oublious @KediKesenFare @merzifonlu
@JamD @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Deino

 

[JamD]

Prof. Hayrani Öz published some comparative dynamic analyzes on MIUS(KIZILELMA) and MMU(TFX) aircraft on Twitter.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Hayrani-Oz

I tried to translate the relevant content for you as much as I could;

https://twitter.com/x/status/1540782360131768321

https://twitter.com/x/status/1542084276673560576

Dönme Yarıçapı - Turning Radius
Dönme Açısal Hızı - Turn Of Angular Speed
Uçuş Hızı V - Flight Speed V
İtki Ağırlık Oranı (gerekli) - Thrust/weight ratio (required)
Dönme Periyodu - Rotation period P
Azami Ağırlık W mx - Max Weight W mx
Mevcut İtki T - Current Thrust T
Mevcut Azami fg - Current Maximum fg
AY - Art Yakıcılı - AY - With Afterburner

https://twitter.com/hayrani

PROFESSOR EMERITUS OF AEROSPACE ENGINEERING
THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY COLUMBUS OHIO USA

@Oublious @KediKesenFare @merzifonlu
@JamD @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Deino

I will take a closer look at these numbers but I suspect these are to be taken with a grain of salt. As weird as it sounds the keystone performance metric that allows us to calculate the above numbers at all is the coefficient of drag at various conditions. Everything else can be guesstimated from publicly available data. But coefficient of drag is tricky because:
1. It's value shows up in basically everything that the professor has calculated.
2. These values are very sensitive to the value of the drag coefficient model (how the value varies under various conditions).
3. It is extremely hard to obtain accurate enough coefficient of drag models. These are actually closely guarded secrets. And no, CFD alone can't help. You can't take a 3d model and estimate drag through CFD. These are often made from wind tunnel testing, flight testing, combined with CFD.


I am only trying to alert the casual reader to the inherent uncertainty in these numbers, lest they take them too seriously. Regardless, they make for a fun exercise.


What I would be most interested in is the autonomy of the kızılelma. And of course that will be a horrendously guarded secret.

 

[PakAlp]

I am probably more excited than the Turks. Imagine kızılelma in 10 - 15 years time, it will be the next unmanned 6th generation fighter jet.

 

[arslank03]

is there any Turkish datalink programs ? Stuff like LINK-16 etc is hitting its limits, with aircraft like these that can push tons of data around, id assume there would be something in development for them

 

[Oublious]

What i did understand is less speed more maneuverable am i correct?

 

[dBSPL]

is there any Turkish datalink programs ? Stuff like LINK-16 etc is hitting its limits, with aircraft like these that can push tons of data around, id assume there would be something in development for them

Tactical data link program

KEMENT TDL Tactical Data Link System | Meteksan Defence | Meteksan

KEMENT TDL Tactical Data Link System is a TDMA-based, secured (crypto), jam-resistant, high-speed digital communication system with relay capability for near-real time transmission of complex data sets.

www.meteksan.com

Tactical Data Link Management System

https://www.havelsan.com.tr/en/sectors/defense-and-security/air/tactical-data-link-management-system/havelsan-tactical-data-link-management-system

Warning, Command and Control System program

KARTAL | National Warning, Command and Control System

The KARTAL National Warning and Command and Control (K2) is a system that will meet the needs of the Turkish Air Force Command in this area, which is developed by HAVELSAN with national resources. It has been seen that there are important problems in assigning the Air Command and Control System...

defence.pk

 

[dBSPL]

What i did understand is less speed more maneuverable am i correct?

In close engagement conditions such as Dogfight, aircraft are already maneuvering at certain speed envelopes.

Factors such as low mass area, low weight, and the elimination of strength limits caused by the human factor enable much higher maneuverability in unmanned systems. Of course, the other side of the coin here is AI-based decision support systems and autonomous capabilities.

Once the AI systems developing for UCAV fighters are mature enough, close engagement of manned fighter jets will become much more risky. As how described by Professor Hayrani Öz, Manned fighters usage will limiting in some strategic and tactical military purposes and "some technological advantages and benefits". It's a process. This level will not be reached in a few years, but military aviation is definitely evolving in this direction. In this respect, the pioneering countries of this paradigm shift will be the countries that reveal the new paradigm in this field in a few decades.

 

[dBSPL]

NOTES:
a) According to the international academic evaluation criteria, these maneuvers study fall within the framework of the 3th and 4th academic year of Aircraft Engineering design courses.
b) All calculated figures, -except the necessary thrust coefficients-, can be obtained from open sources by evaluating published geometric dimensions of the aircraft in the light of dynamic and aerodynamic knowledge and concepts.
c) The calculation of the "fg" Thrust/Weight coefficient required for the said maneuvers/flight envelopes includes the given/desired acceleration and the 'aerodynamic parameters which are not particularly clearly published' and the lift coefficient CL, which is a functional aerodynamic parameter.
d) Unpublished aerodynamic parameters; according to the scope, depth and experience of his knowledge, especially his design experience and history; by expert aircraft engineers; The geometric dimensions given can be estimated with purely technical approaches according to the shape, flight conditions and regime.
e) In the 2nd and 3rd maneuvers, the calculations and figures of the F35AB are in accordance with the figures reported in the open publication at the end of both technical studies and test flights, and are even given more precisely/accurately. Therefore, maneuvers 2 and 3 were chosen to make the comparison more meaningful. 3. for maneuver; The F35AB's design was reconciled to 4.95G acceleration after experiencing problems with tilt rotation standardized by 2/3 (5.95G) of the maximum 9G limit.
f) The data of the information I gave as SU-35 on December 6, 2020 is actually for the aircraft that later evolved into the SU-57 (both of the same company's design), this time it is shown as SU-57. I've made this correction in this note as it gets the attention of more aware people.
g) In the results I presented on December 6, some required fg values were calculated in approximate terms (due to the small difference) instead of the exact figures. This time I gave the fg values using the full expression. Hence there is some of the minor fg differences from the previous notes.
h) Ultimate efectiveness of aircraft; "electronic warfare and communication equipment/ammunition" and "pilot-machine dynamics and interface/handling qualities" superimposed on the dynamic features of the "flight ship/platform" in these maneuvers etc.; and when it fused with human factors engineering features and "the function/role of the aircraft, combat strategy and tactics", "maintanance, repair, operation (MRO) and cost" activities, Integration occurs. In any case, the dynamic characteristics of the flight carrier take precedence, or should not be seriously disregarded in favor of other elements.

@JamD