A Chinese Empire Reborn

[艹艹艹]

A chinese empire reborn?
I sincerely wish.

 

[gambit]

LOL!! The nerve of some americans talking about cultural superiority!!

You were just a vast collection of peasants, boobs and hillbillies not to long ago

And your China was not ?

 

[TaiShang]

I've thought for a long time that China owed Osama bin Laden a debt of gratitude for distracting the US for a decade as he did. I'm also starting to think that China also owes the USSR a debt (even though it latterly became an opponent). It primed the US for a specific kind of rival and gave it an experience that is not only inapplicable but also counterproductive to its competition with China.

Furthermore, since the USSR and its ideologies are associated with Marxism and historical materialism, these terms and modes of thought became heresy in the West, especially so in America. America willingly deprived itself of a rich theoretical framework with which to study the evolution of societies, including its own. Instead, all it has is the "end of history."

People often say haphazardly that history is to be taken lesson from. Yet, they think of history as a dead past and mostly they will not be able to link past with the present in any meaningful sense. Why historical thinking is important for nations? Because, I guess, even though personal histories may not matter too much in terms of the implications of destructive mistakes but national histories matter because they represent the collection of a large number of people.

The real sense of being historical is to be able to see through the immanent reality and make constant adjustments as the conditions change/evolve. For this, one has to go deeper than a regular, pedestrian-minded journalist (as in the OP) would normally do; one needs to ask "why" question and try to figure out why something has not happened the way it was supposed to (Remember Gramsci: "The old is dying but the new cannot be born"). What is holding the progress of history? Then, one needs to target that very reason(s) that holds the progress back. This way, one (a nation) will not lose time and energy in fighting shadows and ending up gaining no tangible benefits (as the USSR experienced). Anti-historical forces prevail.

China does not fight shadows. China is a very good historical materialist scientist as a collective government. China, therefore, targets the very forces that hold back history. The West represented by the US has now become a historical burden that many countries feel and are concerned about. That's why China's solid actions have been generating more resonance than normally they would given that China is only a developing nation. For China's aiming at the very critical forces without being bothered by arbitrary developments (and traps) is actually creating tangible results.

This is what the US is helpless to fight back. As you brilliantly put (and that was lost to me until you brought it up), the US is a very bad historical learner and dialectical thinker. They expose crude and brute power, and that's miles away from being intelligent. It may be smart, but it has no intellect that brings together more than a simplistic rationality -- wisdom and critical thinking. The US has devolved into a low intellect polity with inadequate wisdom and critical thinking. Hence, they (the polity) has become childlike. Their well-grown up leaders, politicians, media owners, billionaires are becoming child-like. Not as innocent as a child, but reckless as a child without any mental capacity to calculate the implications of their actions for the long term.

The very crude theory of "the end of history" also suggests a child-like and anomic psyche because, at the peak of their power, they only were able to come up with such a poorly intellectual idea to tell to the rest of the world. What they were telling to the world was that "history is a deterministic linear line and having captured the very end of it, we now are able to keep others from arriving at that point." So, the message was not one of co-development or prosperity, but of a discrimination and subjugation. Miraculously, the very idea of the end of history blew right on their faces on September 11. Since then, the US has been a qualitative decline and now the virus seems to have entered into the very heart of the US political elite.

Nevertheless, dealing with this kind of anti-historical polity is both easy and dangerous. It is easy because one can easily deflect their attention, guide them into a certain path, and make them make mistakes. But also dangerous because they are unpredictable and, worse yet, under certain historical accidents and anomalies, they collected destructive power.

China is not an empire but a civilization nation. It has the wisdom and immanent thinking to sort through complex realities and define specific targets. Currently, its most demanding task is to manage the crude and anti-intellectual power of the US. I guess, if nothing else is being done by China, this (managing the US), by itself, is a great service to humanity for which we should be thankful.

 

[Old School]

People often say haphazardly that history is to be taken lesson from. Yet, they think of history as a dead past and mostly they will not be able to link past with the present in any meaningful sense. Why historical thinking is important for nations? Because, I guess, even though personal histories may not matter too much in terms of the implications of destructive mistakes but national histories matter because they represent the collection of a large number of people.

The real sense of being historical is to be able to see through the immanent reality and make constant adjustments as the conditions change/evolve. For this, one has to go deeper than a regular, pedestrian-minded journalist (as in the OP) would normally do; one needs to ask "why" question and try to figure out why something has not happened the way it was supposed to (Remember Gramsci: "The old is dying but the new cannot be born"). What is holding the progress of history? Then, one needs to target that very reason(s) that holds the progress back. This way, one (a nation) will not lose time and energy in fighting shadows and ending up gaining no tangible benefits (as the USSR experienced). Anti-historical forces prevail.

China does not fight shadows. China is a very good historical materialist scientist as a collective government. China, therefore, targets the very forces that hold back history. The West represented by the US has now become a historical burden that many countries feel and are concerned about. That's why China's solid actions have been generating more resonance than normally they would given that China is only a developing nation. For China's aiming at the very critical forces without being bothered by arbitrary developments (and traps) is actually creating tangible results.

This is what the US is helpless to fight back. As you brilliantly put (and that was lost to me until you brought it up), the US is a very bad historical learner and dialectical thinker. They expose crude and brute power, and that's miles away from being intelligent. It may be smart, but it has no intellect that brings together more than a simplistic rationality -- wisdom and critical thinking. The US has devolved into a low intellect polity with inadequate wisdom and critical thinking. Hence, they (the polity) has become childlike. Their well-grown up leaders, politicians, media owners, billionaires are becoming child-like. Not as innocent as a child, but reckless as a child without any mental capacity to calculate the implications of their actions for the long term.

The very crude theory of "the end of history" also suggests a child-like and anomic psyche because, at the peak of their power, they only were able to come up with such a poorly intellectual idea to tell to the rest of the world. What they were telling to the world was that "history is a deterministic linear line and having captured the very end of it, we now are able to keep others from arriving at that point." So, the message was not one of co-development or prosperity, but of a discrimination and subjugation. Miraculously, the very idea of the end of history blew right on their faces on September 11. Since then, the US has been a qualitative decline and now the virus seems to have entered into the very heart of the US political elite.

Nevertheless, dealing with this kind of anti-historical polity is both easy and dangerous. It is easy because one can easily deflect their attention, guide them into a certain path, and make them make mistakes. But also dangerous because they are unpredictable and, worse yet, under certain historical accidents and anomalies, they collected destructive power.

China is not an empire but a civilization nation. It has the wisdom and immanent thinking to sort through complex realities and define specific targets. Currently, its most demanding task is to manage the crude and anti-intellectual power of the US. I guess, if nothing else is being done by China, this (managing the US), by itself, is a great service to humanity for which we should be thankful.

It is nice to see that someone is interested in dialectics. I wish OP was the same. Before we get into deeper , please clarify the nature of this ‘reborn empire/civilization’ in the light of the historical materialism. Then, I would also like to have your comment on this :
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...85626af34ef_story.html?utm_term=.a7635e22120d

 

[HeinzG]

India is set to become the 3rd largest economy here soon enough, and a population that is set to surpass China within 5 years. That means more money for defense and R&D. They may be behind China for now, but there power is only going to grow and that gap will narrow, especially if the India/US relationship grows.

To underestimate India is stupid, really stupid. India's populations will reach 1.7 billion mid century, while China's will be in terminal decline. It's obvious that capability gap will narrow.

Though the Indian population is growing the same is not accurate about the prosperity. Many millions of Indians are poor and they do not contribute pretty much to the economy. Moreover, increasing population will force India to divert more money on education, sanitation, health and many more social activities. Population is a two edged sword in IMHO.

 

[sinait]

To accuse me of being Indian the way you and your Chinese friends have is the height of dishonesty. I've made it clear that I'm a White Caucasian of German descent and yet race is still brought up. It's petty and pathetic.

An yes, you absolutely ignored my points. Demographic trend lines are everything, and that does NOT bode well for China. How's that aging and declining population going for Japan? That's China in 30 years...

Wow, you get so worked up after being identified as from SP2012.
So you felt being called an Indian demeaning/insulting ?
Yes, for some, and perhaps yourself, Indian is a derogatory term, being associated with rapist, overpopulation, massive pollution and filthy with no sanitation.
I can understand that.

Why would a Germanic white keep praising India, with the world's largest population of poor, if you are not a ganga ?
Especially in a thread about China and the US.
Are you as white as Nikki Haley ?
.

 

[seesonic]

Wow, you get so worked up after being identified as from SP2012.
So you felt being called an Indian demeaning/insulting ?
Yes, for some, and perhaps yourself, Indian is a derogatory term, being associated with rapist, overpopulation, massive pollution and filthy with no sanitation.
I can understand that.

Why would a Germanic white keep praising India, with the world's largest population of poor, if you are not a ganga ?
Especially in a thread about China and the US.
Are you as white as Nikki Haley ?
.

When you have nothing brag about.

You pretend to be someone else of higher status in your culture to insult the other party you deem as lower "caste".

 

[Huan]

Some America born Chinese are so eager to badmouth China to show their loyalty to their host country due to their inferiority complex such as Gordon Chang and the OP.

I couldn't believe they still have Gordon Chang on CNN this year.

 

[Cybernetics]

An interesting book about China's rise is "The Hundred year Marathon" by Michael Pillsbury. Although I don't agree with everything he says, he makes some interesting points nonetheless. It is unlikely China will make moves that is beyond its capability or interests like replacing America.

Michael Pillsbury's books and interviews are a good start for understanding some aspects of Chinese growth. Noted that he is motivated by an agenda, especially after transitioning from a "Panda hugger" to a China alarmist since he realised the CCP was not going to collapse but rather evolve.

Understanding that it is prudent to not assume the CCP would collapse but rather evolve he is trying to advise the American government to shape China to share increasingly more values and interests with the US so that if/when China surpasses America economically and/or militarily it will uphold the American values/world order. Shaping China will aid in America's survival as he argues the current trajectory is not entirely conducive to American interests.

He stated Mao said, "Surpassing America would be China's greatest contribution to humanity."

I have recently purchased "The Hundred-Year Marathon" and "Dealing with China, an Insider Unmasks The New Economic Superpower" by Henry M. Paulson, Jr. (Former US Treasury Secretary), looking forward to giving them a read.

 

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

Do you know I really look forward to Chinese ascendancy. More then anything I look forward to massive Chinese shadow on Pakistan. Which of course is natural. Having a hyperpower as neighbour has consequences. The best consequence I hope to see is it will help to hasten secularization of Pakistani society. The fresh cool winds of rationality, reason, economic gravitas blowing down the Karakorum Highway should cleanse the religious profiteering and obscurantism that has infected Pakistan. I hope Pakistan goes the way of Sinkiang Uighur. On the road to economic progress and less religious hocus pocus.

Let's all salute the big red CCP.

That should be your decision not made by CHINA bro.
Only several successful Islamic countries, such as Turkey and Malaysia and that is all.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

That should be your decision not made by CHINA bro

I agree but most countries are where they are because of internal dynamics interfacing with external forces. No country is a island unto itself. The religious radicalism you see in Pakistan has been inflated and note I use the word 'inflated' because it was there within Pakistan society salways but external events caused these forces to grow to the levels where they are today. The Western support for right wing forces during the Cold War and the Afghan Jihad of the 1980s were seminal events that led to a religious extremism reaching where it has.

Therefore we can't deny in Pakistan that external actors have had no influence. They have. When two socities engage each other there is always influence exerted in particular by the stronger party. Therefore the rise of China as a economic and military power will have long term consequences within Pakistan. For instance the biggest threat to the $60 billion CPEC investment in Pakistan by China is religious forces. This will oblige Beijing to place pressure on Islamabad (behind the scenes) to build a riposte narrative against these forces that might trammel the investment potential.

This is quite to the contrary to 1980s when Washington paid money to Pakistan in order to open madaris, cultivate radical mullahs to set up the 'jihad infrastructure' to service the holy war against Soviet Union in Afghanistan. That infrastructure of jihad was never dismantled in 1990 and to certain extent still exists in Af-Pak region causing chaos.

 

[HannibalBarca]

That should be your decision not made by CHINA bro.
Only several successful Islamic countries, such as Turkey and Malaysia and that is all.

What is success?

Switzerland is a success?
Russia is a success?
Luxembourg is a success?
Monaco is a success?
Taiwan is a Success?
Indonesia is a success?
Honk Kong is a success?
UAE is a success?
Brazil is success?
Australia is a success?
Iraq etc... and so on...

And in which area of expertise...somthing could be seen as being successfull?

And in which time frame should we see smthing as being successfull?

Those who were successful 10-30 years ago... could be no more?
Those who were unsuccessful 10-30years ago..;could be successful now...

 

[rott]

I knew you were SP12.

Please correct your flags and be proud of who you are.

He probably has two accounts. One to cheer for the US and the other for India.

 

[F-22Raptor]

Wow, you get so worked up after being identified as from SP2012.
So you felt being called an Indian demeaning/insulting ?
Yes, for some, and perhaps yourself, Indian is a derogatory term, being associated with rapist, overpopulation, massive pollution and filthy with no sanitation.
I can understand that.

Why would a Germanic white keep praising India, with the world's largest population of poor, if you are not a ganga ?
Especially in a thread about China and the US.
Are you as white as Nikki Haley ?
.

Once again, here's someone falsely accusing me of being something I am not. Is this the best you and the bootlickers can do?

Since when am I praising India? I'm simply stating obvious trend lines. India is headed towards being the 3rd largest economy in the world by 2030. Their demographics are on a healthier trajectory than China's. Thereby this means more money for R&D and weapons programs and rising geopolitical clout. That puts India in direct geopolitical competition with China in the Asia Pacific. This is beneficial to the United States, in which China has to focus its eye on several fronts. The US, on the other hand, doesn't have any geopolitical competitors in its region thereby giving it the freedom to maneuver.

So now I'm Indian because I state the obvious geopolitical trends?
This is why no one takes you rubes seriously.

He probably has two accounts. One to cheer for the US and the other for India.

Are false racial attacks all you got? I expected more, but then again the Little Pink Brigade are full of intellectual laggards. Next time, try to focus on the topic at hand.

 

[beijingwalker]

Once again, here's someone falsely accusing me of being something I am not. Is this the best you and the bootlickers can do?

Since when am I praising India? I'm simply stating obvious trend lines. India is headed towards being the 3rd largest economy in the world by 2030. Their demographics are on a healthier trajectory than China's. Thereby this means more money for R&D and weapons programs and rising geopolitical clout. That puts India in direct geopolitical competition with China in the Asia Pacific. This is beneficial to the United States, in which China has to focus its eye on several fronts. The US, on the other hand, doesn't have any geopolitical competitors in its region thereby giving it the freedom to maneuver.

So now I'm Indian because I state the obvious geopolitical trends?
This is why no one takes you rubes seriously.

Wait and talk in 2030 after it happens. India is different from East Asian countries and regions like Japan, Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong and Taiwan, so what happened in East Asia won't be a sure thing to happen in India, so we better wait and see.

East Asian model of capitalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Asian_model_of_capitalism

There are so much difference between India and East Asian Confucian culture countries and probably this model won't work well in other regions in the world.