A Case for "Aurat March" - The different side of Story

[Desert Fox]

It ain't fun, it ain't easy. In this chaos of debate having watched/read so much about one side of story I thought to put up the different side of story too for consideration.


Let’s put "Aurat march" and "liberals" aside for a moment. Let’s just say for a moment, they both don't exist.


Now, no matter how unfortunate, let put up a list of only reported cases of harassment, sexual or otherwise, verbal and physical abuse, oppression, violation of Islamic (for the sake if you are not a fan of the human slogan based criteria) rights, forced and under age marriages, lack of health care, lack of education, and lack of opportunities in this country, society, your city, town, village or neighborhood or any level... Now...


Question 1: Is it true that majority of victims (children, young, old) of all the above-mentioned issues will be women? (yes men (especially underage) too are victims)


Answer:

If No. Here is an example for you.

Example: Education (Currently, Pakistan has the world’s second-highest number of out-of-school children (OOSC) with an estimated 22.8 million children aged 5-16 not attending school, representing 44 per cent of the total population in this age group. In the 5-9 age group, 5 million children are not enrolled in schools and after primary-school age, the number of OOSC doubles, with 11.4 million adolescents between the ages of 10-14 not receiving formal education. Disparities based on gender, socio-economic status, and geography are significant; in Sindh, 52 percent of the poorest children (58 percent girls) are out of school, and in Baluchistan, 78 percent of girls are out of school. Nearly 10.7 million boys and 8.6 million girls are enrolled at the primary level and this drops to 3.6 million boys and 2.8 million girls at the lower secondary level. Gender-wise, boys outnumber girls at every stage of education. https://www.unicef.org/pakistan/education)

You are welcome to not trust this data and go out and make your own data on any scale possible for you and in any sector as per your wish. You will find similar results from rapes, to harassment to work issues to health care (specifically pertaining to women only health issues) to status of women in home and family to almost majorly everything.

Whenever your answer changes, then...


If Yes. Between the last time's and this time's "aurat march" who talked about all these issues, anyone even on personal level, let alone do something about it? Talking about an issue is the first step, educating and acting comes after so talking about it matters. Second, if one can protest about economy and jobs and religious issues, one can also protest about these issues. (how to debate/protest and how not to, is sure up for debate, for now let’s first decide whether it is supposed to be up for debate/protest)


Question 2: Why (what are called as so called) Liberals or feminist hijack, misinterpret and manipulate the agenda of “aurat march”? If so, should I be not against it?


Answer:

Let’s suppose two people (namely x and y) know the truth about a certain thing. The person X manipulates the truth and tells everybody while the person Y keeps shouting again and again that person X is liar. When asked for truth the person Y does not tell the truth but keeps insisting that person X is a liar. Does that make up for his case? NO!

Same is the case for “aurat march”. The Maulana on mosque, the teacher in classroom, the father and brother in house, the username on social media, the person in society or country will keep up being the person Y, only blaming others but not doing saying or dong anything about the issue themselves, one can argue at very least argue the issue is being raised.

It is up to us, we the common folks, to talk about it, raise voice for it and against it, to take charge ourselves and society and if not, then not cry foul play while sitting idle.

What about focusing a little more on “what is said” rather than “who is saying”. Are we not focusing on the minor issue and setting ablaze the major one?

Question 3: What about the slogans? “Mera Jism Meri Marzi”

Answer:

There is no negating it. There can be no “mera jism, teri marzi” for man or women or anybody. For some it may portray all the aforementioned issues women are facing especifically “Getting a say in bearing children” an issue persistent in society if u look for people bearing children for boys for example putting women’s life at risk (https://www.samaa.tv/living/health/2019/04/why-mothers-are-dying-during-childbirth-in-pakistan/) for others it might be more of “sex working”. There is no denying that anything against law is not acceptable but why look at one side and what are you saying or doing about the other? Only if you remove the lack of “say in birthing” problem, can you then accuse of it being a slogan for “sex-work”. Although nowhere it has been used in the world by the feminist or liberals, as they are called, for “sex-work” but rather actually abortion rights if unplanned pregnancy (in marriage too) happens. In our context, looks like no one gave it a thought because things are not so bad that bar of talking of abortion rights seems too high to set probably.


Conclusion:

A large amount of almost 50% of our country's population i.e. women, are highly persecuted on a number of grounds simultaneously.

Controversial highlight of an issue is better than its denial.

So, what are you going to do about it other than whining about foul play by a group calling it manipulation of truth?

Unless you do walk and talk the truth yourself should you be allowed for accusing other of lies?

The real Question and Solution: How many women in your house, family, friends, acquaintance, neighborhood, village, town, city or country do you know or see persecuted in any way and what are you doing about it?


IT’S JUST A SIDE OF STORY, I FELT TO BE LEAST FOCUSED ON. YOU MAY HAVE ANOTHER SIDE. BOTH MAY BE TRUE OR BOTH MAY NOT BE. JUST DON’T OVER-LOOK ANY OF THE TWO.

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Interestingly all these issues you mentioned Islam and Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (SAW) already addresses and If anyone thinks otherwise onus is on them to prove so.

We are an Islamic Republic, Muslim majority country (Muslim = someone who submits to the will of Allah). Our solutions are within the fold of Islam, not some man-made ideology that has destroyed the family system even in the countries it has originated from.

Secondly, please do not be deluded by these Liberal, Upper class, Westernized Feminist aunties because they themselves oppress women of the under-priviledged segments of our society.

Upper class Liberal Feminist women in Pakistan murder and torture under-age maids and then have the audacity to cry about "womens rights".

 

[PakistaniJunior]

Interestingly all these issues you mentioned Islam and Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (SAW) already addresses and If anyone thinks otherwise onus is on them to prove so.

We are an Islamic Republic, Muslim majority country (Muslim = someone who submits to the will of Allah). Our solutions are within the fold of Islam, not some man-made ideology that has destroyed the family system even in the countries it has originated from.

Secondly, please do not be deluded by these Liberal, Upper class, Westernized Feminist aunties because they themselves oppress women of the under-priviledged segments of our society.

Upper class Liberal Feminist women in Pakistan murder and torture under-age maids and then have the audacity to cry about "womens rights".

These issues are indeed mentioned in Islam. But has our society successfully implemented them? If they are still popping up means we are failing somewhere. Men want the "Perfect Islamic wife" but cannot bother being the "Perfect Islamic Husband".You see, This is why our society is flawed.

 

[Death Professor]

Are women most persecuted section of EVERY society and far less than enough is being done about it?

If thats true then its true for our society as well. If its false then its false for our society as well. This is most bs of issues that is being highlighted in Pakistan for no good reason. Man and Woman are not exactly equal both have their pros and cons. It's time that we start recognizing this basic natural fact and stop looking both of them with the same lens.

Recently, Elizabeth warren dropped out of the race and her excuse was sexism was the primary reason for her loss. Name me a couple of female English comedians that you love to watch? Men and women think differently, their humor is different, their appreciation for things is different, they have different likes, different dislikes. Where there is difference, there has to be be in-equality. You can't make it exactly equally same for both genders. Do you watch women cricket? Do you like watching women cricket? Do any of your female acquaintance watch women cricket? Then you(not you personally) say why both aren't equally paid. I mean what kind of bs is this?

 

[Path-Finder]

@Path-Finder The reported numbers are always less than actual ones still have a look here too.
Recent statistics compiled by the Punjab commission on the status of women are terrifying. According to them from 2014_2017 10,000 rape cases were reported in Punjab, whereas the data collected by “The News”, it states that 2,699 were raped in 2014, 2,509 in 2015, 2,938 in 2016 and 1,365 in 2017. (https://dailytimes.com.pk/403889/emerging-rape-culture-in-pakistan/ )
3800 cases of child abuse only in year 2018?
(https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/f...llings-continue-unabated-191028193228404.html)

the actual number will always be higher as most goes unreported.

 

[Psychic]

Let us not forget about domestic abuse and blackmailing. ?

Aurat march is not about domestic abuse, rape, vani or harassment, all of which are already declared as crime as per law and every decent man condemns such practices.
Just take a look at their posts and playcards and if you're smart enough, you'll know what their real agenda is. They are targeting the institution of family, religious values and social norms of Pakistan. And remember that "equality" won't hurt men at all, it will only hurt women; they won't have special quotas or any other privileges.

 

[PakistaniJunior]

Aurat march is not about domestic abuse, rape, vani or harassment, all of which are already declared as crime as per law and every decent man condemns such practices.
Just take a look at their posts and playcards and if you're smart enough, you'll know what their real agenda is. They are targeting the institution of family, religious values and social norms of Pakistan. And remember that "equality" won't hurt men at all, it will only hurt women; they won't have special quotas or any other privileges.

while i am not talking about the political agenda behind the organizer of this march i will highlight the issues we're facing.

For a strong Pakistan, we need the cooperation of our women. I am just highlighting some of the things that common pakistani women have to go through. We are not doing enough for their rights.

The organizer's differing agenda still doesn't excuses us for it. However i do support being cautious as you said. People shouldn't slander these girls, they should be made more aware.

Thanks

 

[Xeson]

Interestingly all these issues you mentioned Islam and Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (SAW) already addresses and If anyone thinks otherwise onus is on them to prove so.
We are an Islamic Republic, Muslim majority country (Muslim = someone who submits to the will of Allah). Our solutions are within the fold of Islam, not some man-made ideology that has destroyed the family system even in the countries it has originated from.
Secondly, please do not be deluded by these Liberal, Upper class, Westernized Feminist aunties because they themselves oppress women of the under-priviledged segments of our society.
Upper class Liberal Feminist women in Pakistan murder and torture under-age maids and then have the audacity to cry about "womens rights".

Aurat march is not about domestic abuse, rape, vani or harassment, all of which are already declared as crime as per law and every decent man condemns such practices.
Just take a look at their posts and playcards and if you're smart enough, you'll know what their real agenda is. They are targeting the institution of family, religious values and social norms of Pakistan. And remember that "equality" won't hurt men at all, it will only hurt women; they won't have special quotas or any other privileges.

Right! but my point is what is being done other than blaming feminists and liberals. 10,000 rape cases from 2014 to 2017 only in Punjab and that too as per official numbers, 3800 child abuse cases in 2018... where these liberals and feminists too? when are we going to get out of unimportant thing of who is organizing what. U don't like slogans, go make your own. you don't like title of march, make your march by another name. you don't like people in the march, go march with own friends and family... but at least do!!! what are all doing to instead to make things better other than being critical? How do we raise awareness of all the right issues that women face? how do we tell women their needs and issues are recognized by society and men? how do we give them confidence to report crimes and issues? how do we educate and aware on a public level? I think more people should go out for "aurat march" and do all the right things that they think are not being done right.

Are women most persecuted section of EVERY society and far less than enough is being done about it?
If thats true then its true for our society as well. If its false then its false for our society as well. This is most bs of issues that is being highlighted in Pakistan for no good reason. Man and Woman are not exactly equal both have their pros and cons. It's time that we start recognizing this basic natural fact and stop looking both of them with the same lens.
Recently, Elizabeth warren dropped out of the race and her excuse was sexism was the primary reason for her loss. Name me a couple of female English comedians that you love to watch? Men and women think differently, their humor is different, their appreciation for things is different, they have different likes, different dislikes. Where there is difference, there has to be be in-equality. You can't make it exactly equally same for both genders. Do you watch women cricket? Do you like watching women cricket? Do any of your female acquaintance watch women cricket? Then you(not you personally) say why both aren't equally paid. I mean what kind of bs is this?

A child, A young man and an old man are dealt as equal? but do they have rights? Yes, same? No. If it was just plain equality men would be asking for same as pregnancy leave too, wouldn't they? women ask for same pay at same jobs! (i agree with men and women sports wage variations but how about 2 architects, were classmates, working at same firm, one male one female with different wages?) In a society, not in favor of working women,where every one knows a women will only come for job cox she desperately needs it, the tables are turned already as u can make her take job for less pay. she might need pregnancy leave, she will have monthly days, she can be harassed with relative ease, if she reports her image is tarnished. How many men would marry a girl who report for rape? But let that aside, do you think 2500 rapes just in our country a year is BS? Harassment on way to work?, if being different is okay but being considered lesser is ok? Do you think if every where in the world is bad that's an excuse for us to take our conditions for granted?
DO all your male friends and family like same actors and comedians? Do all of them watch the same sport and follow same teams? then why are they the same? In the argument where is correcting things...

So i will clarify and conclude my point again... when are we going to get out of unimportant thing of who is organizing what. U don't like slogans, go make your own Slogans and posters. you don't like title of march, make your march with title of your choice. you don't like people in the march, go march with own friends and family... If you think something is being done wrong, go make it right if you really care!
SPEAK UP FOR WOMEN RIGHTS SO AS NOT TO FAIL OUR MOTHERS, SISTERS, WIVES, HALF OF OUR COUNTRY AND HUMANITY!
AND WHEN THE DAY COMES SPEAK FOR YOUR OWN RIGHTS!

 

[Psychic]

10,000 rape cases from 2014 to 2017 only in Punjab and that too as per official numbers, 3800 child abuse cases in 2018.

What can be done? Marchings gonna stop abuse?

Libbus made a hue and cry when resolution to hang rapists in public was passsed. Resolution was passed by male majority house.

Women are raped/abused in the many Western countries at a greater rate than here. Solution is not "bister khud garam kar lena" or "taangein khol kar baithon gee" or making calls for abolishment of nikkah.

U don't like slogans, go make your own. you don't like title of march, make your march by another name. you don't like people in the march, go march with own friends and family... but at least do!!

That march is not about domestic abuse, rape, honor murder or such issues. It is for importing the worst of the Western civilization in Pakistan. Its not about me liking or disliking the slogans; its about the fact that the nature of this march is defined by those very slogans.
You can go out and get used by these feminists for their own agenda; you can go if you want to but don't ask others to give them PR.

I made it clear several times that this march is not for women rights. Its purpose is to target the religion and culture of Pakistan.

 

[Death Professor]

Do you think if every where in the world is bad that's an excuse for us to take our conditions for granted?

Nopes, but that is what this march is propagating, no? That we should be more like them(west). A guy literally posted a video in which it tells from where the slogan "Mera jism, meri marzi came from".

In a society, not in favor of working women,where every one knows a women will only come for job cox she desperately needs it, the tables are turned already as u can make her take job for less pay. she might need pregnancy leave, she will have monthly days, she can be harassed with relative ease, if she reports her image is tarnished. How many men would marry a girl who report for rape? But let that aside, do you think 2500 rapes just in our country a year is BS? Harassment on way to work?

Now who in the world is condoning rape and harassment here? If the march was specifically against rape and harassment, I would be all for it. There would have been nothing to critique, but the fact is its not. What you see the march and what I see the march are totally different, its not clear. And the ones leading the march are the ones dictating, what it should be viewed as.

U don't like slogans, go make your own Slogans and posters. you don't like title of march, make your march with title of your choice. you don't like people in the march, go march with own friends and family... If you think something is being done wrong, go make it right if you really care!
SPEAK UP FOR WOMEN RIGHTS SO AS NOT TO FAIL OUR MOTHERS, SISTERS, WIVES, HALF OF OUR COUNTRY AND HUMANITY!
AND WHEN THE DAY COMES SPEAK FOR YOUR OWN RIGHTS!

Very flawed approach, if this was the case the whole country would leave everything and start marches. It's not the job of regular people to start pointless useless marches. Examples: Why are other sports being neglected, lets start a march? Lets start a hockey march, then snooker march, then boxing march, then kabaadi march, esports march. You think, majority isn't effected by sports, well then thats your assumption. Why not start a kids malnutrition march? Our PM said 40% of the children are mal-nutritioned, whats being done about it? Why is there no march regarding it? Why not start a rape/harassment march, which shouldn't be only limited to women only. You think only women get harassed or raped? Sure women are more prone to rape and more effected by rape proportionally compared to men. But if its a bad thing for both, shouldn't there be a march regarding it?What is being done about the rape charges against the Dawn news owner? Why there is no march against child labor?

You see the thing is what I want is not march. WHAT I WANT IS IMPLEMENTATION OF LAW. There are laws already for the protection of men, women and children. All we need is implementation of them, and you know when if these laws will start to get implemented, then there would be crying by another section of the society.

when are we going to get out of unimportant thing of who is organizing what.

Example, if tomorrow a large crowd is gathered and the demands are not clear, how would you view that gathering? Obviously, you will look and ask the leadership who is commanding that march or gathering. I can bet maulana fazlu can get a higher number of crowd then what these libtard women can ever muster. Behind the scenes agenda always matter, you are viewing the issue microscopically. But these things need to be always tackled after viewing them holistically. The international chess board is what matters, these petty issues mean nothing on the world stage. As some one said beautifully "Skoon tou qabar me he milta hai".You fix one thing, another will pop up, you fix that some one else would be un-happy about some other irrelevant thing.


Bottom line: We have a set particular culture and society. It has its pros and cons, if anything tries to corrupt it, I will be always opposed to it. And this particular irrelevant march is that and I am happy that this irrelevant issue will die down after tomorrow, like every-other irrelevant thing till next year when the foreign machinery starts moving its gear again.

 

[Lincoln]

Interestingly all these issues you mentioned Islam and Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (SAW) already addresses and If anyone thinks otherwise onus is on them to prove so.

We are an Islamic Republic, Muslim majority country (Muslim = someone who submits to the will of Allah). Our solutions are within the fold of Islam, not some man-made ideology that has destroyed the family system even in the countries it has originated from.

Secondly, please do not be deluded by these Liberal, Upper class, Westernized Feminist aunties because they themselves oppress women of the under-priviledged segments of our society.

Upper class Liberal Feminist women in Pakistan murder and torture under-age maids and then have the audacity to cry about "womens rights".

Firstly, these women are also what Aurat March is fighting against. I can post here hundreds of media files showing what persecuted women have had to go through due to society, if that proves a point.

I love how everyone comes up with a one stop solution, Islam. No one ever goes in to the specifics, but everyone falls short of that. Like what are those rights, because everyone holds a different interpretation.

Some would say as per Islamic rights, a woman can't go outside without a male companion. Some believe that as per Islamic rights, a woman's testimony is considered half to that of a man. Some believe that, as per Islamic rights, a woman should be fully discouraged from a career oriented life. Some think that as per Islamic rights, a woman should stay within the four walls and maintain that cover.

So which ones?

 

[Desert Fox]

These issues are indeed mentioned in Islam. But has our society successfully implemented them? If they are still popping up means we are failing somewhere. Men want the "Perfect Islamic wife" but cannot bother being the "Perfect Islamic Husband".You see, This is why our society is flawed.

Perfection is only with Allah and anyone seeking perfection in this world, well they'll be waiting until Qiyamat, can't break it to them any other way. Thing is, this is why people need to stop watching Bollywood, Lollywood nonsense as it creates unrealistic expectations for both genders.

Yes, we have utterly failed, I agree, we have utterly failed in upholding Islam on the individual level and societal level, but if we are going to fix this problem then it certainly isn't by importanting the most dangerous foreign ideology we can find in order to look cool for a few minutes and destroying entire generations to come.

What feminism has done in the West:

1) destroyed the traditional family

2) ruined marriage prospects for millions of young men and women

3) rampant zina (extra-marital sex)

4) increased rate of children born without a biological father in their life

5) increased rate of children with mental health issues (school mass shootings, incarceration etc)

6) increased rates of MULTIPLE types of incurable sexually transmitted diseases within large chunk of general population

7) increased rates of children being born with incurable sexually transmitted diseases they receive from their mothers upon being born

8) young women being easy prey for sexual predators

9) young women having to resort to desperate measures just to survive like selling their bodies into p0rnographic industry (basically prostitution)

10) women turning to drugs, alcohol and even suicide to escape the now societal level exploitation

And these are what simply come to mind because they are so common and now just widely accepted by everyone in society as 'fact'. That's how kuch people in western countries have become desensitized to this reality that no one really cares who screwing their mother tonight and who's sleeping with their sister today or who's child his own wife gave birth to yesterday; societal level beghairti.

And this is what these Liberal Upper class Feminist In Pakistan want to import here.

Firstly, these women are also what Aurat March is fighting against. I can post here hundreds of media files showing what persecuted women have had to go through due to society, if that proves a point.

View attachment 611737
View attachment 611738

I love how everyone comes up with a one stop solution, Islam. No one ever goes in to the specifics, but everyone falls short of that. Like what are those rights, because everyone holds a different interpretation.

Some would say as per Islamic rights, a woman can't go outside without a male companion. Some believe that as per Islamic rights, a woman's testimony is considered half to that of a man. Some believe that, as per Islamic rights, a woman should be fully discouraged from a career oriented life. Some think that as per Islamic rights, a woman should stay within the four walls and maintain that cover.

So which ones?

More people agree on Islamic stance here than they would some secular jibberish made in countries where mass shooters are going on killing sprees because they were born without a father in their life. For us Muslims, we only need to refer to Sunnah of our Prophet (SAW) that majority of Muslims and scholars agree on what it is as the authentic sources have documented it.

 

[Yankee-stani]

If one has a nuanced take yes there are issues that women face in Pakistan and in South Asia in general but then again I dont see a good reason to import western materialist ideals to our society would work instead it will lead to more tensions throughout society between Upper Middle Classes who may benefit from such societal changes at the start which would clash with majority of lower middle class to low class segments it would lead to more polarization, I agree Pakistan must move into the 21st century on a lot of things but this materialistic ideas from the west would lead to facade of modernity or just plain mockery of it

 

[Zane_K]

It ain't fun, it ain't easy. In this chaos of debate having watched/read so much about one side of story I thought to put up the different side of story too for consideration.


Let’s put "Aurat march" and "liberals" aside for a moment. Let’s just say for a moment, they both don't exist.


Now, no matter how unfortunate, let put up a list of only reported cases of harassment, sexual or otherwise, verbal and physical abuse, oppression, violation of Islamic (for the sake if you are not a fan of the human slogan based criteria) rights, forced and under age marriages, lack of health care, lack of education, and lack of opportunities in this country, society, your city, town, village or neighborhood or any level... Now...


Question 1: Is it true that majority of victims (children, young, old) of all the above-mentioned issues will be women? (yes men (especially underage) too are victims)


Answer:

If No. Here is an example for you.

Example: Education (Currently, Pakistan has the world’s second-highest number of out-of-school children (OOSC) with an estimated 22.8 million children aged 5-16 not attending school, representing 44 per cent of the total population in this age group. In the 5-9 age group, 5 million children are not enrolled in schools and after primary-school age, the number of OOSC doubles, with 11.4 million adolescents between the ages of 10-14 not receiving formal education. Disparities based on gender, socio-economic status, and geography are significant; in Sindh, 52 percent of the poorest children (58 percent girls) are out of school, and in Baluchistan, 78 percent of girls are out of school. Nearly 10.7 million boys and 8.6 million girls are enrolled at the primary level and this drops to 3.6 million boys and 2.8 million girls at the lower secondary level. Gender-wise, boys outnumber girls at every stage of education. https://www.unicef.org/pakistan/education)

You are welcome to not trust this data and go out and make your own data on any scale possible for you and in any sector as per your wish. You will find similar results from rapes, to harassment to work issues to health care (specifically pertaining to women only health issues) to status of women in home and family to almost majorly everything.

Whenever your answer changes, then...


If Yes. Between the last time's and this time's "aurat march" who talked about all these issues, anyone even on personal level, let alone do something about it? Talking about an issue is the first step, educating and acting comes after so talking about it matters. Second, if one can protest about economy and jobs and religious issues, one can also protest about these issues. (how to debate/protest and how not to, is sure up for debate, for now let’s first decide whether it is supposed to be up for debate/protest)


Question 2: Why (what are called as so called) Liberals or feminist hijack, misinterpret and manipulate the agenda of “aurat march”? If so, should I be not against it?


Answer:

Let’s suppose two people (namely x and y) know the truth about a certain thing. The person X manipulates the truth and tells everybody while the person Y keeps shouting again and again that person X is liar. When asked for truth the person Y does not tell the truth but keeps insisting that person X is a liar. Does that make up for his case? NO!

Same is the case for “aurat march”. The Maulana on mosque, the teacher in classroom, the father and brother in house, the username on social media, the person in society or country will keep up being the person Y, only blaming others but not doing saying or dong anything about the issue themselves, one can argue at very least argue the issue is being raised.

It is up to us, we the common folks, to talk about it, raise voice for it and against it, to take charge ourselves and society and if not, then not cry foul play while sitting idle.

What about focusing a little more on “what is said” rather than “who is saying”. Are we not focusing on the minor issue and setting ablaze the major one?

Question 3: What about the slogans? “Mera Jism Meri Marzi”

Answer:

There is no negating it. There can be no “mera jism, teri marzi” for man or women or anybody. For some it may portray all the aforementioned issues women are facing especifically “Getting a say in bearing children” an issue persistent in society if u look for people bearing children for boys for example putting women’s life at risk (https://www.samaa.tv/living/health/2019/04/why-mothers-are-dying-during-childbirth-in-pakistan/) for others it might be more of “sex working”. There is no denying that anything against law is not acceptable but why look at one side and what are you saying or doing about the other? Only if you remove the lack of “say in birthing” problem, can you then accuse of it being a slogan for “sex-work”. Although nowhere it has been used in the world by the feminist or liberals, as they are called, for “sex-work” but rather actually abortion rights if unplanned pregnancy (in marriage too) happens. In our context, looks like no one gave it a thought because things are not so bad that bar of talking of abortion rights seems too high to set probably.


Conclusion:

A large amount of almost 50% of our country's population i.e. women, are highly persecuted on a number of grounds simultaneously.

Controversial highlight of an issue is better than its denial.

So, what are you going to do about it other than whining about foul play by a group calling it manipulation of truth?

Unless you do walk and talk the truth yourself should you be allowed for accusing other of lies?

The real Question and Solution: How many women in your house, family, friends, acquaintance, neighborhood, village, town, city or country do you know or see persecuted in any way and what are you doing about it?


IT’S JUST A SIDE OF STORY, I FELT TO BE LEAST FOCUSED ON. YOU MAY HAVE ANOTHER SIDE. BOTH MAY BE TRUE OR BOTH MAY NOT BE. JUST DON’T OVER-LOOK ANY OF THE TWO.

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Good stuff...

 

[Lincoln]

Perfection is only with Allah and anyone seeking perfection in this world, well they'll be waiting until Qiyamat, can't break it to them any other way. Thing is, this is why people need to stop watching Bollywood, Lollywood nonsense as it creates unrealistic expectations for both genders.

Yes, we have utterly failed, I agree, we have utterly failed in upholding Islam on the individual level and societal level, but if we are going to fix this problem then it certainly isn't by importanting the most dangerous foreign ideology we can find in order to look cool for a few minutes and destroying entire generations to come.

What feminism has done in the West:

1) destroyed the traditional family

2) ruined marriage prospects for millions of young men and women

3) rampant zina (extra-marital sex)

4) increased rate of children born without a biological father in their life

5) increased rate of children with mental health issues (school mass shootings, incarceration etc)

6) increased rates of MULTIPLE types of incurable sexually transmitted diseases within large chunk of general population

7) increased rates of children being born with incurable sexually transmitted diseases they receive from their mothers upon being born

8) young women being easy prey for sexual predators

9) young women having to resort to desperate measures just to survive like selling their bodies into p0rnographic industry (basically prostitution)

10) women turning to drugs, alcohol and even suicide to escape the now societal level exploitation

And these are what simply come to mind because they are so common and now just widely accepted by everyone in society as 'fact'. That's how kuch people in western countries have become desensitized to this reality that no one really cares who screwing their mother tonight and who's sleeping with their sister today or who's child his own wife gave birth to yesterday; societal level beghairti.

And this is what these Liberal Upper class Feminist In Pakistan want to import here.


More people agree on Islamic stance here than they would some secular jibberish made in countries where mass shooters are going on killing sprees because they were born without a father in their life. For us Muslims, we only need to refer to Sunnah of our Prophet (SAW) that majority of Muslims and scholars agree on what it is as the authentic sources have documented it.

You have unfortunately failed to address what Islamic rights are.

What are you saying? Should gender issues not be tackled? Should they not be allowed freedom? Is society right in blaming them?

 

[Dubious]

one can argue at very least argue the issue is being raised.

I disagree...You see the fabric of society isnt black or white.

You can not argue that at least the issue is raised even when clearly it is raised in a very disturbing and poor manner! The issue of Zainab didnt call for any AURAT MARCH when it was most needed! The issue of aurat march started as usual- following the west who march AND do something about the issues they face...Not march for selfies and appearing on social media with inappropriate placards! Also marches in other countries have occurred for reasons but in Pakistan it is in conjunction with world media coverage of Women day celebration!

Array celebrate being a woman by BEING A WOMAN and showing the TRUE sense of it...Like what we are best at - Multi tasking, loving, caring, being understanding, patient.

Go volunteer in Edhi centers, children hospitals, teach acid victims how to live again, help a widow, get an orphan girl married, play with orphans, sponsor a girl for school or something else where your skills can be utilized.

What changes can pictures of you holding weird placards on social media possibly do for the issues that need to be raised or addressed? Who will address them?