9-year-old in critical condition after gang-rape

[Ayush]

hope the girl is recovering well.
death to the rapists.

 

[Sugarcane]

For Rapists - I fully support KSA's method of beheading in Public.

 

[livingdead]

For Rapists - I fully support KSA's method of beheading in Public.

I dont support death penalty, its unsuitable for indian condition.
I know rape news are not allowed as thread, but we can have a sane discussion about rape because there is a lot of myth surrounding it, which many of us propagate. It will be nice to have a proper discussion (more so because its a massive issue in India)

 

[Sugarcane]

I dont support death penalty, its unsuitable for indian condition.
I know rape news are not allowed as thread, but we can have a sane discussion about rape because there is a lot of myth surrounding it, which many of us propagate. It will be nice to have a proper discussion (more so because its a massive issue in India)

I was suggesting punishment for Pakistan, to me this kind of sick people have no right to exist - I don't want to see at-least in my country. Regarding topic - you can see history of these threads, hardly will be able to find couple of sane posts.

 

[livingdead]

I was suggesting punishment for Pakistan, to me this kind of sick people have no right to exist - I don't want to see at-least in my country. Regarding topic - you can see history of these threads, hardly will be able to find couple of sane posts.

No, I meant a separate thread, unrelated to any news. Will mods allow it? Also we dont have many female members, which is a shame.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Why these gang-rapes, rapes, rapes of female childs dont happen in our areas? Smuggling, narcotics and killings in enemities are main crimes in our pashtun society but you wont observe domestic violence, throwing acid on wives, burning them, kidnapping, raping, gang-raping females in our areas. Because 1) of our tribal framework, our villages are not mixed, a single clan lives lives in village, all villagers are relatives or distant relatives of each other. A person who doesnt belong to clan is settled in the village as "vassal". There is no "chaudri", "sardar", "or "wadaira" among who can exploit poor people. The most respectable people in our society are white beard elders not chaudri or sardar, these respectable wise elders are mostly members of jirga. The affairs of village are run through our this local democratic set up, which exists in our society for thousands of years. Justice is quick and decision is finalized only when both parties agrees to it.
2) Women are strictly gaurded. You cant imagine dishonouring a woman in pashtun society, you have to face the consequences with your life. You cant even sit in the street other than yours, you will be immediately questioned. Strangers are stared by every one in the village, if he is wandering alone, he is stopped and questioned that what exactly he is doing here. The reason is that villagers are related to each other, most often women dont dont wear burqa in the village. Any outsider without refrence is not welcomed.
I would give you example how our people react to kidnapping of females. In 2003 some badmash bhittanis from hills kidnapped 3 female madrassa students belonging to marwat tribe (my tribe). The Bhittanis were asked to hand over the marwat girls and culprits, when they refused, huge lashkar-kashi was done on their area, their villages razed. In response Those kidnappers burnt the female madrassa students alive. This incident drive our people to unimaginable rage as it was first of its kind. Bloody tribal war ensued between marwats and bhittanis which was then settled by inter-tribal jirga.
In another case bhittanis of tank supposedly search females of mehsud IDPs while they were passing through tank. Mehsuds reacted by violent bombing and killings of bhittanis.
3) A common pashtun is armed as well as malak or khan. Power is not unbalanced like in punjab and sindh. You cant rape a pashtun girl just because her father is driver or watchman, consequences are still same as you expect from wealthy and influential khan or malak.
@haviZsultan @Hyperion

 

[livingdead]

^^^ what about rape by own relatives, dont tell me that does not happen in pashtun tribes?
The law of the land should act as deterrent rather than delicately balanced power equation among tribes.

 

[Icewolf]

@Monkey D Luffy



Rape happens everywhere in Pakistan.

Northwest and Tribal Pakistan isnt free of it either. They have same rape crimes as the rest of Pakistan.

Rather than differentiating between provinces and tribes, why dont we all work together to stop this problem?

 

[American Pakistani]

stone these r@p3 terrorists to death. Set an example for other r@p3 terrorists in Pakistan.

 

[Contrarian]

To be honest - i think it should be an eye for an eye.

They raped someone, they should get raped in return. It will harsher than killing them.

 

[haviZsultan]

Why these gang-rapes, rapes, rapes of female childs dont happen in our areas? Smuggling, narcotics and killings in enemities are main crimes in our pashtun society but you wont observe domestic violence, throwing acid on wives, burning them, kidnapping, raping, gang-raping females in our areas. Because 1) of our tribal framework, our villages are not mixed, a single clan lives lives in village, all villagers are relatives or distant relatives of each other. A person who doesnt belong to clan is settled in the village as "vassal". There is no "chaudri", "sardar", "or "wadaira" among who can exploit poor people. The most respectable people in our society are white beard elders not chaudri or sardar, these respectable wise elders are mostly members of jirga. The affairs of village are run through our this local democratic set up, which exists in our society for thousands of years. Justice is quick and decision is finalized only when both parties agrees to it.
2) Women are strictly gaurded. You cant imagine dishonouring a woman in pashtun society, you have to face the consequences with your life. You cant even sit in the street other than yours, you will be immediately questioned. Strangers are stared by every one in the village, if he is wandering alone, he is stopped and questioned that what exactly he is doing here. The reason is that villagers are related to each other, most often women dont dont wear burqa in the village. Any outsider without refrence is not welcomed.
I would give you example how our people react to kidnapping of females. In 2003 some badmash bhittanis from hills kidnapped 3 female madrassa students belonging to marwat tribe (my tribe). The Bhittanis were asked to hand over the marwat girls and culprits, when they refused, huge lashkar-kashi was done on their area, their villages razed. In response Those kidnappers burnt the female madrassa students alive. This incident drive our people to unimaginable rage as it was first of its kind. Bloody tribal war ensued between marwats and bhittanis which was then settled by inter-tribal jirga.
In another case bhittanis of tank supposedly search females of mehsud IDPs while they were passing through tank. Mehsuds reacted by violent bombing and killings of bhittanis.
3) A common pashtun is armed as well as malak or khan. Power is not unbalanced like in punjab and sindh. You cant rape a pashtun girl just because her father is driver or watchman, consequences are still same as you expect from wealthy and influential khan or malak.
@haviZsultan @Hyperion

This is nothing to take pride in Luffy. Modern ways are changing... we have to change too. It's these type of conversations we like having and people start thinking of Pashtuns as animals because of them. I request both you and Hyperion to desist from linking Pashtuns to negative influences such as Naswar, guns, kidnappings and killings. Its already hard enough on the other threads explaining to our so-called "Muhajirs" how the entire term is a fake one. No need to accentuate tensions by giving them fodder for their cannons.

My family is running scared of little bit of firing for new year-some people starting to cry in Karachi you think they will look up to this talk of kidnappings and murders as something great? Now you will go off about Punjabis, muhajirs and what not but regardless modern Pashtun intellectuals are now questioning and challenging old practices, no one appreciates this and you can find out from a simple debate on Khyber tv-all talk is about getting rid of gun culture. Even now I heard from an Orakzai friend in Canada-her sister is marrying of choice with guy in Peshawar she talked to on Skype for many years. Everything is changing, all ancient ways, all old traditions are breaking down. These are not modern Pashtun ways.

Also it puts me in very uncomfortable situation when I say I have adopted Pashtun culture and cousins give me references to naswar and guns and ANP, I have to explain to these bigots carefully how these are outside influences from @Sher Malang's Tajik dominated country or the British/Soviets/Saudis.

If we look at it, it all came from Afghanistan and the Pashtun tribes in the north like noorzai and zadran. Noorzai's once even offered full support to Taliban there, first time ever in history of Pashtuns which is just a shame proving them weak Pashtuns.

As far as the Jirga's and lashkars are concerned, to stop exactly this kind of stupidity and tribal warfare we need to institutionalize both-make them part of the law. Make one institution for graduation of tribal elders in each village and one for lashkars-both institutions should be run and controlled by a larger Pashtun societal board. They are great aspects of our culture but strengthening of law has to occur too. I wanted to suggest such ideas somewhere for better functioning of tribal society but your little forum we all know how it is, the other forum has no debate about ethnic issues and this forum has indeed recently opened its gates to such debate. But one started by a seperatist sympathizer like you only raises eyebrows.

As far as this debate is concerned, since MQM supporters have been blaming me for being too close to Pashtuns-I will look more critically though I still hold it is harder for me to criticize Pashtun personalities and ways of some people (which are not really our true culture) than Lucknowite culture because Luffy and others always draw the card that I am adopting identity just to tell them what to do rather than any loyalty.

Just will speak neutrally as a journalist. There is no data that correlate's with what Luffy said. There is no proof that some Pashtuns being emotional and refusing to believe in any kanoon or law is good and has had an effect on reducing rapes. For example long ago there was this guy who worked in my office. He was part of the reason I came over to Pashtun cause (true one which=Pakistani cause) as he suffered lots of biases. Anyway he had an uncle who kidnapped a young girl from another village (he told stories like this in office which could be a reason for the bias-these city folk, in fact will say us city folk because I am at best an urban Pashtun can't really comprehend this way of life-we frown when we hear it-its not a positive aspect of society...). Now the two villages are always at war.

So you see tribal loyalties lead to larger massive wars which are in no way good. I would advise a concept similar to the Ijtehad or concept of liberalization and reinterpretation of Islam in light of modern advances proposed by Iqbal. Same goes for culture. These concepts made us the kings of history and allowed us to form empires-we literally ruled the world and this is no kidding-you just can't read the sub-continents history and not find a Pashtun in it. But times have changed. Badal is not going to work anymore-we have proper police forces and units now. It is a thing of the past.

Anyway I have never come across any data that correlates with the perception that these old ways are good for Pashtuns or any society. No offense. Only said it because you called me here to debate this.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

You people are deriving strang meanings from my Post. I was saying that if there is check and balance in society, people have some code and principles and they are conservative, then you wont see the cases of rapes, gang-rapes of women and children. Zinna, adultery do secretly happens in our pashtun areas (though not that much) like rest of Pakistan and world, but rapes, gang-rapes are unimaginable, i have stated reasons for that in my above post.
@haviZsultan your law doesnt punishes rapists to death, no fear of punishment for crime. In punjab powerful person would rape a weak and no body could question them, police might even arrest and harass the family of victim. Heck some times police enters into home of poor one and rape them. Feudal lords there are above the law while weak and poor is ****** o khwaar there. while Our society is not like that, why @Icewolf i should consider vices of your society as mine, when you dont consider vices of pathans as yours?

 

[Edevelop]

He said he will merge this so that people don't open it for revenge purposes.

As long as there is one sticky thread, we can discuss it.

What is to discuss ? We all know its a disgusting behaviour.

 

[KRAIT]

What is to discuss ? We all know its a disgusting behaviour.

Actually in terms of criminal psychology and the reasons. Its being studied in many countries.

 

[LicencetoKill]

Why these gang-rapes, rapes, rapes of female childs dont happen in our areas? Smuggling, narcotics and killings in enemities are main crimes in our pashtun society but you wont observe domestic violence, throwing acid on wives, burning them, kidnapping, raping, gang-raping females in our areas. Because 1) of our tribal framework, our villages are not mixed, a single clan lives lives in village, all villagers are relatives or distant relatives of each other. A person who doesnt belong to clan is settled in the village as "vassal". There is no "chaudri", "sardar", "or "wadaira" among who can exploit poor people. The most respectable people in our society are white beard elders not chaudri or sardar, these respectable wise elders are mostly members of jirga. The affairs of village are run through our this local democratic set up, which exists in our society for thousands of years. Justice is quick and decision is finalized only when both parties agrees to it.
2) Women are strictly gaurded. You cant imagine dishonouring a woman in pashtun society, you have to face the consequences with your life. You cant even sit in the street other than yours, you will be immediately questioned. Strangers are stared by every one in the village, if he is wandering alone, he is stopped and questioned that what exactly he is doing here. The reason is that villagers are related to each other, most often women dont dont wear burqa in the village. Any outsider without refrence is not welcomed.
I would give you example how our people react to kidnapping of females. In 2003 some badmash bhittanis from hills kidnapped 3 female madrassa students belonging to marwat tribe (my tribe). The Bhittanis were asked to hand over the marwat girls and culprits, when they refused, huge lashkar-kashi was done on their area, their villages razed. In response Those kidnappers burnt the female madrassa students alive. This incident drive our people to unimaginable rage as it was first of its kind. Bloody tribal war ensued between marwats and bhittanis which was then settled by inter-tribal jirga.
In another case bhittanis of tank supposedly search females of mehsud IDPs while they were passing through tank. Mehsuds reacted by violent bombing and killings of bhittanis.
3) A common pashtun is armed as well as malak or khan. Power is not unbalanced like in punjab and sindh. You cant rape a pashtun girl just because her father is driver or watchman, consequences are still same as you expect from wealthy and influential khan or malak.
@haviZsultan @Hyperion

Oh Come On, A HAJI with big one feet beard will be sitting and in his Hujra(house) he would have kidnapped many people or stolen many automobile or killers be sitting in his hujra. So You respect such people what a shame.

Problem is there must be happening these things in your society but no one visit your area because all we know about tribal area is kidnapping.