87% Kashmiris wants independece

[wtf]

once again we are back to the blame game, ur sayin as if india does not have terrorists of its own. Secondly if you really want to bring peace to Kashmir, then your army and police should show some sympathy to them, so that way they don't breed terrorism.

Chicken and egg I think.

I agree that an un-prosecutable army running around a place is not going to be a nice experience for the local population. India has to hand over control of security of Kashmir to local populace at some point of time. For India to be able to do that there needs to be peace in Kashmir for a while, with no terrorist actions (Like it happened in Punjab). Once that happens, hopefully we can have an open border and free trade etc. But Pakistan won't have free trade unless Indian Army pulls out or shows some olive leaves.It really becomes a matter of who does what first.

 

[dabong1]

Chicken and egg I think.

I agree that an un-prosecutable army running around a place is not going to be a nice experience for the local population. India has to hand over control of security of Kashmir to local populace at some point of time. For India to be able to do that there needs to be peace in Kashmir for a while, with no terrorist actions (Like it happened in Punjab). Once that happens, hopefully we can have an open border and free trade etc. But Pakistan won't have free trade unless Indian Army pulls out or shows some olive leaves.It really becomes a matter of who does what first.

The indians have been screaming that pakistan has to stop "cross-border infiltration" before any talks can take place......we took the first step "showed some olive leaves" but now you indians have new demands.
I said from the start that the indians wanted us to stop the flow of fighters into kashmir before talks could start....we obliged but now your demands are increasing by the day and we wil not oblige this time.

 

[paritosh]

it will be the Indians both ways, if indian army could really control things in its parts of Kashmir. It would have done so, if the army tries forcefully,indian civilians will lose blood, and then the army willl bleed also.

good for you i guess!?!
so let kashmir be with india...for we'd bleed forever...

 

[vkurian]

Majority of Pakistanis, including myself, want Kashmiris themselves to decide their own fate.

Well said Omar....

What if I replace Pakistanis with Indians and Kashmiris with Baluchistanis.

Aisa nahi hota hai dost.

When dealing with such sensitive issues personal like and dislikes have no relevence.

 

[dabong1]

Well said Omar....

What if I replace Pakistanis with Indians and Kashmiris with Baluchistanis.

Aisa nahi hota hai dost.

When dealing with such sensitive issues personal like and dislikes have no relevence.

Just as easy for us pakistani to bring up punjab,Assam, Nagaland, Tripura, Meghalaya, Manipur, Mizoram Arunachal Pradesh and tamil nadu ect

Aisa nahi hota hai dost......we either stick to kashmir or we bring up every secessionist movement.

 

[dabong1]

You cant have fighters flowing into kashmir. It will worsen the situation for both of us.

Was your first demand not always that pakistan should stop the movement of fighters before any talks could take place....."cross border terrorism must stop before meaningful negotiations can take place on kashmir" was the indian line......what did you give in return?

If you think pakistan is just going to accept all the indians demands in kashmir then you are totally wrong......you have seen the recent LeT attack on indian forces take place,something that has been missing from kashmir for a few years now....this will only increase and we end up where we where 10 years ago.

 

[PeacefulIndian]

First of all you pakis must understand that cross border terrorism was started by your govt and that is not the way to solve a problem. Second you have Azad Kashmir, the people in Indian Kashmir have voted a government into place . Its led by chief minister Omar Abdullah. So keep your hands off it.

Be happy with muridke and muzzaffarabad, if you try something dirty you wont have Azad Kashmir in your hands also.

You need to be aware that you are using racist remarks against Pakistani people.

REFRAIN!!!! You won't get any respect.

 

[jbond]

Kashmir belongs to kashmiris n not to India or Pakistan.
India wont leave Kashmir because of JAMMU N Laddakh.People who live in these places are hindus n buddhists and pro india(Indians actually)
If India were to give the kashmir valley(muslim majority) to pakistan or `freedom` then India won be able to access either Jammu or Laddakh.
N India ceratainly cant leave these people at the mercy of grand separatists(refer Kashmiri pundits) or pakistan(refer post partition demographic changes).
Therefore India has given away part of kashmir it could do without and wont give anymore.

 

[dabong1]

First of all you pakis must understand that cross border terrorism was started by your govt and that is not the way to solve a problem. .

No...you went back on your promise first then did not implement the free vote under the UN and to top it all off you started to rigg the elections in kashmir and only then did pakistan support the kashmiris the same way you supported the Mukti Bahini in the bangladesh war and let do "cross border terrorism".
By the way the kashmiris dont see no border between there homeland it just you indians.

Second you have Azad Kashmir, the people in Indian Kashmir have voted a government into place . Its led by chief minister Omar Abdullah. So keep your hands off it..

Was it a vote to see if the kashmiris want to part of india?.......or is just by default,the kashmiris voted in a election held under the indians so the must support india

Be happy with muridke and muzzaffarabad, if you try something dirty you wont have Azad Kashmir in your hands also.

I see you have no argument just rhetoric!!!!!less of the **** or they will kick you off

 

[dabong1]

Kashmir belongs to kashmiris n not to India or Pakistan.
India wont leave Kashmir because of JAMMU N Laddakh.People who live in these places are hindus n buddhists and pro india(Indians actually)
If India were to give the kashmir valley(muslim majority) to pakistan or `freedom` then India won be able to access either Jammu or Laddakh.
N India ceratainly cant leave these people at the mercy of grand separatists(refer Kashmiri pundits) or pakistan(refer post partition demographic changes).
Therefore India has given away part of kashmir it could do without and wont give anymore.

Joint governance

 

[godsavetheworld]

No...you went back on your promise first then did not implement the free vote under the UN and to top it all off you started to rigg the elections in kashmir and only then did pakistan support the kashmiris the same way you supported the Mukti Bahini in the bangladesh war and let do "cross border terrorism".
By the way the kashmiris dont see no border between there homeland it just you indians.

Promises are mutual. Dont expect us to fulfill our promises unless you fullfill those which you have made to the world. And no amount of "you first" logic is gonna make us negotiate Kashmir, unless Pakistan ends terrorism. Until then, you can talk about UNSC resolutions on forums, while noone is willing to listen to that crap. You have more UNSC resolutions ranging from Nuke proliferation to ending terror against you, first fulfill them .

As far as Mukhti Bahini is concerned, it was not cross border. MB was training and operating much before India extended its support. On the contrary all the terrorist groups were created by the ISI since they knew that they cannot have Kashmir through conventional war.

Originally Posted by dabong1:
Was it a vote to see if the kashmiris want to part of india?.......or is just by default,the kashmiris voted in a election held under the indians so the must support india

It was a vote wherein the people of a state of the worlds largest democracy exercise their right to elect a government of their choice which can build their dreams and aspirations.
It feels great to see how such a high voter turn out by Kashmir to favor India bugs Pakistanis.

 

[shravan]

If Pakistan wants to give Kashmir People Independence it has to spend in Billions. i think its not the right time maybe after few years...

 

[jbond]

DABONG reply.
Joint governance

Too ambitious i say..tooooomuch

 

[saiko]

This is one of those reasons Indians should not be so quick to take the moral high ground in its relations with Pakistan.

 

[Neo]

Kashmiri people want ‘azadi’ from India: IHK CM​

* Abdullah says India, Pakistan biggest hurdle to peace in Kashmir
* Army needs to punish soldiers responsible for killing two civilians​

By Iftikhar Gilani

NEW DELHI: The Kashmiri people want ‘azadi’ (freedom) from the Union of India, Indian-held Kashmir (IHK) Chief Minister Omar Abdullah has said.

In an interview with the strategic journal, Force, Abdullah said he would facilitate engagement between New Delhi and the ‘azadi’ sentiment. However, he added that people wanted freedom from New Delhi, not him or Ghulam Nabi Azad or Mufti Muhammad Sayed. He said trade across the Line of Control (LoC) was disappointing, describing it as “not trade, but barter”. “If I send them stuff and am unable to call and track my payment, I am not in a position to supply goods to them,” he said.

Unfriendly atmosphere: The chief minister said poor relations between India and Pakistan were the biggest hurdle to peace and development in Kashmir. He said relations between the two neighbours directly impact the levels of infiltration and violence in IHK. He also said the outcome of the Indian general elections would have a direct bearing on the situation in Jammu and Kashmir. “If the government at the Centre changes, that can prove to be a little bit of a stumbling block along the way,” he added.

Listing his priorities after the Lok Sabha elections, Abdullah said he would ensure the visible presence of military personnel was reduced, while state police adopted a more proactive role. He also called for the establishment of quick response teams to fight militancy.

No consistency: He also criticised successive regimes in New Delhi for lacking consistency in dealing with pro-freedom elements. “Sometimes they are good, sometimes they are not. Sometimes we want to give them passports, sometimes we don’t. I think there is a need to change this attitude,” he said. Agreeing with the European Union (EU) assessment that Kashmir was not an administrative issue, he said the political dimensions of the issue need to be addressed. “We made the mistake in the past of assuming the money was flowing in, the democratically elected government was in place, the violence levels were down so there was no Kashmir issue,” he said, adding that regardless of the level of tourism, the flames of militancy would continue to rekindle without full understanding of the political dimensions.

Army role: On the recent standoff between his government and the army over the killing of two civilians, he said he wanted punishment for the guilty soldiers. “We want the army to send out the right message. But if they want to respond in routine by transferring the guilty to another theatre, we will also respond in routine,” he added.