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75 Philippine U.N. peacekeepers defy Syria rebels after 43 Fijians seized

The problem here is that al-Nusra front is a terrorist group acting as one of the rebel groups in Syria and that the Syrian civil war is not the typical "two-sided" civil war and while this al-Nusra group see themselves as rebel group fighting Assad's regime, they are still affiliated with al-Qaeda.

If your policy is to "cave in and negotiate with terrorist," then there is nothing else to discuss with.

You either cave in or you negotiate both don't happen at the same time . This is the policy of a UN peace keeping force if Philippines troops cant follow it then best not to join the peace keeping forces . The "policy" saved the lives of several Fijians rather than the unnecessary bravado which ends in deaths and severed heads ..
 
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You either cave in or you negotiate both don't happen at the same time . This is the policy of a UN peace keeping force if Philippines troops cant follow it then best not to join the peace keeping forces . The "policy" saved the lives of several Fijians rather than the unnecessary bravado which ends in deaths and severed heads ..

Whether the Indian commander ordered to lay-down the arms or not, the fact that the Fijians "cave in" to the terrorist and the UN is forced to "negotiate" to free the Fijians means that caving in and negotiate could happen at the same time.

Sure, the Fijians got released, but were they released without the al-Nusra gaining something as a bargain? For every negotiations, something must be given to the hostage taker's side to have their hostages be safely released...in other words, their demands must be considered and must be given to them. Thing is, one of the demands of al-Nusra is the group's removal from the UN's list of global terror organizations.

Don't worry, we will pull back our contingent from the Golan Heights and hope that the PH government will play deaf on the UN's call for peacekeepers and completely ignore it.

The Americans are right about the idea of leaving the UN...
 
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I did not say this

U.N. denies Golan peacekeepers ordered to hand arms to Syria rebels| Reuters

Initial reports suggested their positions were stormed by Al Nusra front , its probable they surrendered themselves considering the overwhelming odds which were posed against them . If they tried to fight back there would be 45 body bags right now including a few severed heads. There is no point in this unnecessary Bravado of fighting Rebels or Al nusra and risking the lives of every UN peace keeping force in the region .As expected the UN Commanders in the area which include the Indian General has been successful in keeping people alive and avoiding any unnecessary blood shed .

Here
Again, UN body has already told Fijians were not asked to give away their weapons , besides the General was involved in the negotiations with freeing the Fijians and he has a history in U.N which includes freeing a captured US journalist few months back. The freeing of the Fijian soldiers was his job . Troops should not do what ever they want without knowing the big picture ..


Source: 75 Philippine U.N. peacekeepers defy Syria rebels after 43 Fijians seized | Page 7

back read your post please

This issue is over, our troops home, fijians free, singha is still in his post
 
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Whether the Indian commander ordered to lay-down the arms or not, the fact that the Fijians "cave in" to the terrorist and the UN is forced to "negotiate" to free the Fijians means that caving in and negotiate could happen at the same time.

That's UN for you , it has not made any sense it it never will . The Indian commander can only work on the confines of the protocols

Sure, the Fijians got released, but were they released without the al-Nusra gaining something as a bargain? For every negotiations, something must be given to the hostage taker's side to have their hostages be safely released...in other words, their demands must be considered and must be given to them. Thing is, one of the demands of al-Nusra is the group's removal from the UN's list of global terror organizations.

AS i told earlier , they want money, supplies and financial support so wont risk hurting the troops , if AL Nusra does anything that hurts the Moderate rebels

Don't worry, we will pull back our contingent from the Golan Heights and hope that the PH government will play deaf on the UN's call for peacekeepers and completely ignore it.

The Americans are right about the idea of leaving the UN...

Its a useless organization and has pretty much failed in every step of the way when it comes to maintaining peace and avoiding wars...
 
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^Why do I feel you are retracting you previous stand about this issue. You said that the UN is a "pretty useless organization" yet the statement you posted here yesterday, specifically the quote below says otherwise.

Singha is fine , he is being actively backed by U.N body and has a very productive history with U.N . Its Philippinos troops who bypassed the chain of command and put the lives of everyone at risk .This is a a U.N peace keeping force ,you are not supposed to start shooting . Besides U.N has already told Fijians were not asked to hand over weapons ..

Whether you are a soldier or a peacekeeper, you do not surrender to the terrorist as they do not heed to International Rules and you do not negotiate with terrorist. Because of the negotiations, the terrorist could do the same thing and demand more in exchange of the hostage's freedom.
 
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^Why do I feel you are retracting you previous stand about this issue. You said that the UN is a "pretty useless organization" yet the statement you posted here yesterday, specifically the quote below says otherwise.

lol...This is not retraction , am stating the obvious , as for actions of the General were in sync with the UN . You have a problem with UN ,blame them don't blame the General. This would not have been an issue if your troops hadn't run off considering the Fijians were freed and the whole ridicules theory surrendering to terrorists false flat right there

Whether you are a soldier or a peacekeeper, you do not surrender to the terrorist as they do not heed to International Rules and you do not negotiate with terrorist. Because of the negotiations, the terrorist could do the same thing and demand more in exchange of the hostage's freedom.

Nobody's talking about "surrendering to terrorists" , this is only coming from a rather inept media and several others who want to divert attention from the actions of the troops who violated the UN protocols .Surrendering means giving up arms to the opponent , UN body already told they were not asked to give up arms which clearly means it was no surrender . Now you can either believe the U.N or the filipino troops who violated the UN protocols. They were not asked to give up their arms , they were simply asked to stop firing and were only sent to make sure the Fijians return home safely which is exactly what happened . Filipino troops should simply follow orders from their commanders rather than doing what ever they want . If you have problems with the commander you deal with him within the confines of the U.N you don't bypass the UN entirely and and follow orders from Philippines Embassy which was extreemly unprofessional for a UN peace keeping force.
 
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Again, UN body has already told Fijians were not asked to give away their weapons , besides the General was involved in the negotiations with freeing the Fijians and he has a history in U.N which includes freeing a captured US journalist few months back. The freeing of the Fijian soldiers was his job . Troops should not do what ever they want without knowing the big picture ..



BTW it was the Indian General who was involved in these negotiations .



UN does not see Rebels as terrorists , they simply see two sides fighting a war . Its the Job of the UN to bring peace and stay out of an armed conflict as much as possible . When a commander asks you to do something, you do it its that simple . If They bring in their personal reasoning and defy a direct order it only shows unprofessionalism . There is a reason why UN is backing the General and not your soldiers who bypassed direct orders and decided they wanted to be heroes . The fact that Fijians were freed itself shows that what ever the General was doing has worked because he was involved in the negotiations .

Still peacekeepers are soldiers they have the right to defend onces selves and the people they were send to protect but in this case to defend themseleves

lol...This is not retraction , am stating the obvious , as for actions of the General were in sync with the UN . You have a problem with UN ,blame them don't blame the General. This would not have been an issue if your troops hadn't run off considering the Fijians were freed and the whole ridicules theory surrendering to terrorists false flat right there



Nobody's talking about "surrendering to terrorists" , this is only coming from a rather inept media and several others who want to divert attention from the actions of the troops who violated the UN protocols .Surrendering means giving up arms to the opponent , UN body already told they were not asked to give up arms which clearly means it was no surrender . Now you can either believe the U.N or the filipino troops who violated the UN protocols. They were not asked to give up their arms , they were simply asked to stop firing and were only sent to make sure the Fijians return home safely which is exactly what happened . Filipino troops should simply follow orders from their commanders rather than doing what ever they want . If you have problems with the commander you deal with him within the confines of the U.N you don't bypass the UN entirely and and follow orders from Philippines Embassy which was extreemly unprofessional for a UN peace keeping force.

We been with the UN peacekeeping forces for a long time so we know what is professional and what is blind obediance and the ground commander made the right call as combat veterans they know what is and what is not in a stituation like that and following a stupid order that would risk their mission and lives is not only stupid simply not an option for any solider not unless of other reasons that are both logical and sound to any commander to consider. So calling this men unprofessional is not only incorrect but insult to the Nation and to professional arms profession itself.
 
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lol...This is not retraction , am stating the obvious , as for actions of the General were in sync with the UN . You have a problem with UN ,blame them don't blame the General. This would not have been an issue if your troops hadn't run off considering the Fijians were freed and the whole ridicules theory surrendering to terrorists false flat right there



Nobody's talking about "surrendering to terrorists" , this is only coming from a rather inept media and several others who want to divert attention from the actions of the troops who violated the UN protocols .Surrendering means giving up arms to the opponent , UN body already told they were not asked to give up arms which clearly means it was no surrender . Now you can either believe the U.N or the filipino troops who violated the UN protocols. They were not asked to give up their arms , they were simply asked to stop firing and were only sent to make sure the Fijians return home safely which is exactly what happened . Filipino troops should simply follow orders from their commanders rather than doing what ever they want . If you have problems with the commander you deal with him within the confines of the U.N you don't bypass the UN entirely and and follow orders from Philippines Embassy which was extreemly unprofessional for a UN peace keeping force.

In that peacekeeping operation, it is the responsibility of the commander of the UN Disengagement Observer Force to give order on what to do, so why did the Fijians, who were armed, got captured? Was the Fijian officer that is leading the Fijian contingent gave the order to surrender by himself, or did it came from the head of the Peacekeeping department of the UN?

If that Indian commander didn't order to surrender, does this imply that the Fijians are cowards allowed themselves to be captured by al-Nusra? Sure, they may not die if they surrender but it would show the world that the Fijian armed forces will surrender at the mere sight of another armed group. And if the PH peacekeepers did surrender and the negotiations fails, whos hand will be filled with the blood of the dead peackeepers, al-Nusra? Please.

Now, about the Filipinos peacekeepers, they may have bypasses UN protocols but it doesn't mean they have to be drones. I feel that you want to portray Filipinos as "too savage" for UN peacekeeping. If you believe that that Indian commander did the right thing, why not let India send in 331 more peacekeepers? I am sure they could spare 331 more after we pull out our Peacekeepers from the Golan Heights which consists of 331 soldiers since India has the third largest armed forces in terms of active personnel, I am sure that they would do better at peacekeeping than PH soldiers.
 
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In that peacekeeping operation, it is the responsibility of the commander of the UN Disengagement Observer Force to give order on what to do, so why did the Fijians, who were armed, got captured? Was the Fijian officer that is leading the Fijian contingent gave the order to surrender by himself, or did it came from the head of the Peacekeeping department of the UN?

As i said previously like 2-3 times . the Fijians were stormed by Al Nusra, they had no choice but to surrender , if they had fought back they would be dead...

If that Indian commander didn't order to surrender, does this imply that the Fijians are cowards allowed themselves to be captured by al-Nusra? Sure, they may not die if they surrender but it would show the world that the Fijian armed forces will surrender at the mere sight of another armed group. And if the PH peacekeepers did surrender and the negotiations fails, whos hand will be filled with the blood of the dead peackeepers, al-Nusra? Please.

If's and buts don't count here fact is Fijians are free thanks to the commander , i have already explained this repeatedly, but people here seem to simply ignore posts ..AL Nusra will not kill UN Soldiers they are not in a liberty to do so .Second thing they were not asked to surrender . You are simply repeating things over and over

Now, about the Filipinos peacekeepers, they may have bypasses UN protocols but it doesn't mean they have to be drones. I feel that you want to portray Filipinos as "too savage" for UN peacekeeping. If you believe that that Indian commander did the right thing, why not let India send in 331 more peacekeepers?

I am sure they could spare 331 more after we pull out our Peacekeepers from the Golan Heights which consists of 331 soldiers since India has the third largest armed forces in terms of active personnel, I am sure that they would do better at peacekeeping than PH soldiers.

We already have plenty of peace keeping soldiers all over the world including Syria FYI and we are doing a pretty good job considering an Indian General was selected to command operations there . If Filipinos joined UN as peace keepers you are supposed to follow orders, not question them and bypass the UN entirely . Deal with the problem within the confines of the UN Protocols .

Still peacekeepers are soldiers they have the right to defend onces selves and the people they were send to protect but in this case to defend themseleves

Sure they have the right to defend themselves , only thing is if Fijians or filipinos decided to shoot at them they would be dead. you are talking about a few odd 100 soldiers against Al Nusra.Which would stand no chance .

We been with the UN peacekeeping forces for a long time so we know what is professional and what is blind obediance and the ground commander made the right call as combat veterans they know what is and what is not in a stituation like that and following a stupid order that would risk their mission and lives is not only stupid simply not an option for any solider not unless of other reasons that are both logical and sound to any commander to consider. So calling this men unprofessional is not only incorrect but insult to the Nation and to professional arms profession itself.

Deserting his post , bypassing UN entirly and talking to Embassy is in no way professional . Fact is the General did the job he was sent to do that is to free Fijian soldiers . While Filipinos troops simply defied orders and did their own thing .
 
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Discussing what has happened is now pointless since the Fijians are freed and the Indian general successfully told the world the lie that the Filipinos are "cowards" despite that some Filipino peacekeepers were rescued by the Irish contingent while the others escaped after sustaining a 7-hour gun battle.

By October, PH peacekeepers in Golan Heights and Liberia will be pulled out, I just wished we also pull out our peacekeepers in Haiti and ignore future calls for peacekeepers as our middle finger to the UN. Maybe we should also consider what some Americans want: abandon the United Nations.

And since it was said that UN peacekeeping is a failure, remove the peacekeepers in Golan Heights and let "Samson" do the talking.
 
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PNoy stands by Pinoy peacekeepers’ actions in Golan Heights
By ANDREO CALONZO,GMA NewsSeptember 12, 2014 10:48am

(Updated 7:13 p.m.) President Benigno Aquino III on Friday stood by the action of Filipino peacekeepers who escaped from Syrian rebels in Golan Heights.

Aquino also said the United Nations, for the most part, didn't grant the Philippines' request to sufficiently arm the peacekeepers.


“Hindi man po tayo napayagan sa karamihan ng ating hiling, nakita naman po ninyo: Lahat ng Pilipinong sundalo doon, nagpakita ng abilidad at husay sa kanilang tungkulin,” the President said in a speech before his allies in Malacañang.

“Nang maipit, gumawa ng plano, kumilos, at nailigtas nga po nila ang isa’t isa sa panganib,” he added.

Aquino nevertheless acknowledged that the conflict in some parts of the Middle East has a direct impact on Filipinos.

“Alam naman po natin na kapag lumaki pa ang gulo sa Gitnang Silangan, apektado ang presyo ng krudo, at pati naman po tayo ay madadamay dito,” he said.

Aquino did not give any categorical declaration as to whether the country will still deploy peacekeepers. The Philippines’ 311 troops serving under the United Nations Disengagement Observer Force (UNDOF) are set to be pulled out after their tour of duty in October.

In June last year, Aquino asked the UN to provide more security to Filipino peacekeepers after some of the country’s troops were abducted and subsequently freed by Syrian rebels in Golan Heights.

PNoy stands by Pinoy peacekeepers’ actions in Golan Heights | Pinoy Abroad | GMA News Online
 
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If this guy is such a great commander, India should station him along the Pakistani border. He'll know just what to do when terrorists come across - be sure to not fire at them, as it will only hinder negotiations.

You cannot ask troops to not fire back when fired upon, and not call that surrender. That is the definition of surrender. There is no question of "not handing over weapons". If you are not willing/able to fire back, the insurgents will simply take your weapons. It isn't your choice anymore. They just advance to point blank range, demand you throw down your weapons or they kill you. You fire at them to keep them at bay - if you don't, you are effectively surrendering. They can maneuver to any advantageous position and COMMAND you to do whatever they like.
 
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As i said previously like 2-3 times . the Fijians were stormed by Al Nusra, they had no choice but to surrender , if they had fought back they would be dead...



If's and buts don't count here fact is Fijians are free thanks to the commander , i have already explained this repeatedly, but people here seem to simply ignore posts ..AL Nusra will not kill UN Soldiers they are not in a liberty to do so .Second thing they were not asked to surrender . You are simply repeating things over and over



We already have plenty of peace keeping soldiers all over the world including Syria FYI and we are doing a pretty good job considering an Indian General was selected to command operations there . If Filipinos joined UN as peace keepers you are supposed to follow orders, not question them and bypass the UN entirely . Deal with the problem within the confines of the UN Protocols .



Sure they have the right to defend themselves , only thing is if Fijians or filipinos decided to shoot at them they would be dead. you are talking about a few odd 100 soldiers against Al Nusra.Which would stand no chance .



Deserting his post , bypassing UN entirly and talking to Embassy is in no way professional . Fact is the General did the job he was sent to do that is to free Fijian soldiers . While Filipinos troops simply defied orders and did their own thing .

Ok so how did we got away then? Filipino troops got away in few numbers? how come the Irish and the filipinos coordinate can the Fijians cant do that they were order to thats why otherwise they would escape the Filipinos did the right thing otherwise they would be other chip on the hands of the terrorist and again there is a difference between following orders and following blindly the ground commander saw the facts and information he acted the Indian Commander is just Moron for not thinking right he had APCs and other means why not use it to reinforce is positions why wait to be overwhelming?

Discussing what has happened is now pointless since the Fijians are freed and the Indian general successfully told the world the lie that the Filipinos are "cowards" despite that some Filipino peacekeepers were rescued by the Irish contingent while the others escaped after sustaining a 7-hour gun battle.

By October, PH peacekeepers in Golan Heights and Liberia will be pulled out, I just wished we also pull out our peacekeepers in Haiti and ignore future calls for peacekeepers as our middle finger to the UN. Maybe we should also consider what some Americans want: abandon the United Nations.

And since it was said that UN peacekeeping is a failure, remove the peacekeepers in Golan Heights and let "Samson" do the talking.

The UN is a failure because its only for the Ruling elite countries like china we should pull out of the UN for good wala pakinabang (useless)
 
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How U.N. troops defied orders, opened fire and escaped Syrian rebels
BY LOUIS CHARBONNEAU AND MANUEL MOGATO
UNITED NATIONS/MANILA Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:01pm EDT

(Reuters) - Early on Aug. 28, al Qaeda-linked militants fighting government forces in Syria crossed a ceasefire line in the Golan Heights on Israel's border and seized 45 Fijians serving in aUnited Nations peacekeeping force.

The leader of a nearby U.N. contingent from the Philippines telephoned a commanding officer in Manila. They were surrounded, the leader said. Should they surrender and risk being kidnapped by the rebels or hold their ground?

The U.N. force commander, General Iqbal Singh Singha of India, fearing Fijian lives could be in jeopardy if the Filipinos engaged in a firefight, ordered the Filipinos to hold their fire. In Manila, General Gregorio Catapang gave different orders to his subordinate thousands of miles away in the Middle East: Stand your ground. Don't surrender.

For three days, Filipino troops fended off hundreds of rebels from the Islamic militant Nusra Front group, killing at least three on the final day before escaping under cover of darkness to Israel. The Fijians were released on Thursday after two weeks of negotiation.

U.N. officials and diplomats say the incident with the Philippine peacekeepers highlights a fundamental problem with peacekeeping missions, one that may be impossible to resolve. National peacekeeping contingents retain allegiance to their commanders at home and when bullets fly, they have no problem disobeying U.N. force commanders and taking orders from home.

Based on interviews with U.N. officials, diplomats and Philippine military sources, including an official report on the incident from Manila, Reuters has pieced together a narrative of the events of Aug. 28 to Aug. 30 leading up to the dramatic escape of Philippine troops from the militants' siege.

It was not the first time that fighting from Syria’s three-year-old civil war spilled onto Israel’s doorstep. But it was the most violent incident in the Golan Heights since the Syrian conflict erupted in March 2011.

The 1,223-strong six-nation U.N. force, known as UNDOF, has been on the Golan Heights since 1974. Its job is to monitor the ceasefire line between Syria and Israel - the so-called disengagement zone that bars both Israeli and Syrian troops. The two countries have officially been at war since the end of the 1973 Arab-Israeli war but their border has been largely quiet.

Before the Syrian war broke out, blue-helmeted U.N. observers stationed in the mountainous region had a relatively easy job. For years their main enemy was boredom.

That changed in March 2013, when Syrian rebels kidnapped 21 Filipino peacekeepers. All were released unharmed, but two months later rebels kidnapped and released a handful of others. The spillover of violence from Syria's civil war prompted Austria, Croatia and Japanto pull out of UNDOF.

The Philippines also considered pulling out but stayed at the U.N.'s request. Fiji, Nepal andIreland agreed to help fill UNDOF's depleted ranks and the U.N. Security Council toughened the mission's rules of engagement to give its peacekeepers more freedom to fight back when under threat.

After the 2013 kidnappings, countries providing troops complained that carrying a pistol was insufficient for a shifting battleground where rebels have shoulder-launched missiles and heavy machine guns. They wanted armored vehicles and heavier weapons - and the freedom to shoot to kill, if necessary, when under attack.

In June of last year, when the U.N. Security Council approved its six-month renewal of UNDOF's mandate, the council emphasized "the need to enhance the safety and security of UNDOF." It also endorsed U.N. recommendations for UNDOF to change its "posture and operations," allowing troops to defend themselves when attacked. The Security Council language on the UNDOF mandate was typically vague about the lengths to which peacekeepers could go in their own defense, but the new flexibility granted to the force did satisfy the demands of the council members and UNDOF troop contributing countries.

The Filipinos put those tougher rules of engagement to work on Aug. 30 when they killed three rebels in a firefight.



ORDER DISOBEYED

After encircling the troops on Aug. 28, Nusra militants communicated to the Filipinos and to the Fijians, who were being held elsewhere at an unknown location, an offer of safe passage if they handed over their weapons. The Filipinos did not trust the militants to keep their word. Philippine military officials in Manila have said openly that General Singha ordered the surrounded troops to raise a white flag, abandon their positions and leave their guns behind for Nusra, a group that the U.N. Security Council last year added to its blacklist of al Qaeda-linked terrorists.

Taking their orders from home, they ignored General Singha. Rather than abandoning their position and weapons, they stayed put and prepared to defend themselves while Philippine military officials and their UNDOF contingent discussed escape plans.

U.N. officials vehemently denied there was an order for the peacekeepers to leave their guns behind, especially as Nusra is subject to a U.N. arms embargo. What U.N. peacekeeping chief Herve Ladsous has acknowledged is that the Filipinos were ordered to hold their fire to avoid jeopardizing the lives of the Fijians. He voiced total confidence in General Singha's decisions during the standoff.

Two days later, tensions escalated. The Nusra militants were growing impatient at the negotiations with UNDOF. The United Nations had already fulfilled one of Nusra's conditions by issuing a statement that said the world body was told the Fijians were seized "for their own protection."

But the U.N. statement was not enough for the rebels.

Around 6 a.m. on Aug. 30 the rebels attacked position 68 in the disengagement zone. Militants on three pickup trucks with mounted weapons attempted to ram through the steelgate of the encampment but were unable to break through. The Filipinos fired on the rebels but began to run low on ammunition. Sporadic exchanges of fire lasted for seven hours.

In the meantime, Filipino troops supported by an Irish armored column rushed to nearby position 69 to extract 32 trapped Filipinos. The armored column was fired upon but the U.N. peacekeepers did not fire back. The operation succeeded.

There were still 40 Filipinos trapped at position 68, along with the 45 Fijian hostages elsewhere. The United Nations tried to link the groups in negotiations but Nusra refused, saying they were separate issues.

A ceasefire was reached that would run until negotiations were to resume at 9 a.m. on Aug. 31. Nusra reinforced its siege as more than 20 vehicles with over 200 rebels arrived on the scene to prevent the 40 remaining Filipinos breaking out of position 68 the way their compatriots had done at position 69. But the reinforcement failed to keep the Filipinos penned in. The blue helmets had a new plan.

Under cover of darkness, Filipino soldiers at position 68 quietly cut the barbed wire and one-by-one scaled a perimeter wall three meters (yards) tall, crossed a mine field and walked 2.3 kms (1.4 miles) to the Israeli side of the Golan Heights. The last man reached safety two hours later.

Catapang jubilantly described it to reporters as "the greatest escape".

U.N. officials acknowledge a sharp disagreement between Singha and the Filipinos, and several accused the Filipinos of thinking only of their own safety and ignoring that of the Fijians held captive.

"The force commander was not only thinking of the security and safety of the Filipinos, but also of the Fijians. Resolving only one issue could affect the resolution of the second problem," said a senior U.N. official.

How U.N. troops defied orders, opened fire and escaped Syrian rebels| Reuters
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