5th-Gen fighter plan hits hurdle as Russia hikes cost ! Chinese Ping Pong ?

[HK Indian MBT]

NEW DELHI: India's biggest defence project in the making, the critical joint development of the fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) with Russia, has flown into some rough weather.

Defence ministry sources said the inking of the final design and R&D contract for the stealth fighter has been hit by a huge delay, with Russia also jacking up costs for the futuristic project. "It's very unlikely the FGFA final design contract will be concluded in the 2013-2014 fiscal," said a source.

This contract was to be inked in 2012 as per the then revised timeline after completion of the preliminary design contract (PD C) phase. India will eventually end up spending close to $35 billion over the next two decades to induct over 200 such "swing-role" fighters.

The plan till last year was that India would begin inducting the FGFA from 2022 onwards, with IAF test pilots getting three prototypes in 2014, 2017 and 2019 for trials at the Hindustan Aeronautics manufacturing facility at Ozar.

"The timeframes will now have to be revised. MoD has established a committee of specialists and finance officials to verify the rise in costs. An internal contract negotiation committee is also in progress," said the source.

But India remains firm about rejecting the US offer for joining its Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) or the F-35 'Lightning-II' programme. "A lot of money and time has been invested in the FGFA with Russia. India simply cannot afford two FGFAs, both financially as well as logistically" he said.

The 18-month PDC worth $295 million for the FGFA with Russia was inked in December 2010, under which Indian designers and scientists have even been stationed in Russia to work out the blueprints and documentation for the fighter.

Though the Indian "perspective multi-role fighter" will be based on the Russian single-seat FGFA called Sukhoi T-50 or PAK-FA, which now has four prototypes flying, it will be tweaked to IAF requirements. IAF had initially pitched for 166 single-seat and 48 twin-seat fighters but will go for only single-cockpit jets now to reduce costs as well as protect stealth features.

The final design contract now being negotiated was pegged at $11 billion, with India and Russia sharing $5.5 billion each towards the cost of designing, infrastructure build-up at Ozar, prototype development and flight testing. Each fighter was to cost over $100 million.

IAF is quite confident the T-50 will meet its future requirements. Apart from ultra-manoeuvrability and supersonic cruising ability, the FGFA will carry its weapons inside the fuselage to lower its radar signature. With a cruising speed of Mach 1.7 to 1.8, it has both long-range strike and high-endurance air defence capabilities.

IAF is currently making do with just 34 fighter squadrons (each has 14 to 18 jets) despite needing at least 44 to keep both Pakistan and China at bay. It's banking upon the ongoing induction of 270 Russian Sukhoi-30MKIs for around $12 billion as well as the early inking of the almost $20 billion project to acquire 126 French Rafale fighters to plug operational gaps till the FGFA becomes a reality.

Spineless Congress Govt will destroy Indian Armed Forces with Corrupt Family Rule and Stupid Policy. God Save India

 

[HK Indian MBT]

Time has come for Indians to have some Balls and Scrap MMRCA / PakFa And Invest this huge sum nearly 30 Billion on Tejas MK 2 and MK 3 (With Two Engine ) Buy engine and Other equipment from outside and fix it in India . No country will have 100% indegenous parts any more Its global Market. When Prime Minister Mr. Singh said. Buy ,Invent or Steal

Time has come we must have some balls to face our enemy with our Made in India Weapon System If we had to die with it So be it. Atleast Next Gen will Learn leason from us. Sick of these Begging when Indians Works as Scientists in many of these company . Which is Shame Full .

Time has come to Privatise the defence Project .No more Single Vendor. Scrap DRDO and Built a Institute with New Rules and Regulation. Sack the cheif if Dead line is not met.

Time has come for hanging the corrupt babu or Netas in defence deal .It should be considered has Terrorism and War against INDIA.As it will destroy or defence and endanger 1.2 billion Life

 

[slapshot]

Time has come for Indians to have some Balls and Scrap MMRCA / PakFa And Invest this huge sum nearly 30 Billion on Tejas MK 2 and MK 3 (With Two Engine )

Actually india needs to do the exact opposite of what you said for a better future.

 

[HK Indian MBT]

Actually india needs to do the exact opposite of what you said for a better future.

Which is ?

 

[slapshot]

Scrap the LCA project and focus on joint ventures like PakFa.

 

[HK Indian MBT]

I tell you one thing. Anyone will do anything for money. If India think wise We must invest Tejas Project to make LCA mk2 and MCA with two engine. Which we can mass produce it. Later we can upgrade too. I dont see whats wrong in this? Our indian politicians are worried abt cost over run But will buy RAFALE for 100 mil with out Weapons. But Tejas will cost just arround 35 million. Even if it increased at 90 Million with great feature like Two Powerfull engine . Its more than Enough. Our Armed force must be told to live with it. This is what every Country did. Including RUSSIA and USA . At first they produced weapons which was challenged by many others, But they are in diffrent League. WAKE INDIA

Scrap the LCA project and focus on joint ventures like PakFa.

Why to scrap LCA ? Its already finished. By 2016 40 tejas will be inducted with good Features . And will be improved to MK-2 Standard. Its going good. We just need to push a little which new DRDO Cheif is doing. Thats the reason why India stoped AMCA for a While.

 

[slapshot]

I tell you one thing. Anyone will do anything for money. If India think wise We must invest Tejas Project to make LCA mk2 and MCA with two engine. Which we can mass produce it. Later we can upgrade too. I dont see whats wrong in this? Our indian politicians are worried abt cost over run But will buy RAFALE for 100 mil with out Weapons. But Tejas will cost just arround 35 million. Even if it increased at 90 Million with great feature like Two Powerfull engine . Its more than Enough. Our Armed force must be told to live with it. This is what every Country did. Including RUSSIA and USA . At first they produced weapons which was challenged by many others, But they are in diffrent League. WAKE INDIA


Why to scrap LCA ? Its already finished. By 2016 40 tejas will be inducted with good Features . And will be improved to MK-2 Standard. Its going good. We just need to push a little which new DRDO Cheif is doing. Thats the reason why India stoped AMCA for a While.

What you said is more like your wishlist. The realities are way different. LCA and the other jets are entirely different classes and moreover LCA is still waiting for induction. At this point LCA is a matter of ego and induction will be in much less numbers since needs are changed over last three decades. IMO Issues faced by LCA was not of financial nature but lack of expertise.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Lol- it's the Russians- delays and cost escalations are all you're going to get out of them!



There was ZERO need to bring in China into this report- shoddy journalism as usual from the Indian Media.

 

[thestringshredder]

This is typical Russian way of business. They come with a lucrative contract, get money from you to start the project and carry it some way and then when you have put in a substantial amount and are too far gone to withdraw, they stop work and hit you with a cost escalation, they have done it before in aircraft carrier Gorshkov and other projects and now in the fifth generation fighter. Our government keeps falling into their trap, why can't we look for other partners ?

 

[ptldM3]

Lol- it's the Russians- delays and cost escalations are all you're going to get out of them!



There was ZERO need to bring in China into this report- shoddy journalism as usual from the Indian Media.

Can you name one aircraft program that has not had delays or cost escalation? LCA or F-35 come to mind?

When changes and modifications are introduced cost and delays occur, in this case India has proposed dozens of 'improvements' to the pak-fa, with that comes further design work, validation, and testing.

We have heard conflicting reports about the pak-fa, with that said, this is just more unsubstantiated claims.

 

[LiberalAtheist]

Wouldn't be the first time the Russian's hike prices up from the original quote didn't you guys pay 2 billion usd extra for that moldering soviet era carrier? man thats a rip off you guys could of just have gotten a brand new one at that price, on top of this 'FGFA' project is being hiked up, I can see why India chose to get the Rafale and Apache as their fed up with the extra opportunity cost associated with the Russians.

 

[Serpentine]

Russians are hard to trust when it comes to military cooperation.

 

[joekrish]

Can you name one aircraft program that has not had delays or cost escalation? LCA or F-35 come to mind?

When changes and modifications are introduced cost and delays occur, in this case India has proposed dozens of 'improvements' to the pak-fa, with that comes further design work, validation, and testing.

We have heard conflicting reports about the pak-fa, with that said, this is just more unsubstantiated claims.

Very true but the price escalation does not start or stop with just the PAK-FA/FGFA.

 

[Kloitra]

Spineless Congress Govt will destroy Indian Armed Forces with Corrupt Family Rule and Stupid Policy. God Save India

Russian cost jacking, delay from their side, but it is corruption of Congress!

Wouldn't be the first time the Russian's hike prices up from the original quote didn't you guys pay 2 billion usd extra for that moldering soviet era carrier? man thats a rip off you guys could of just have gotten a brand new one at that price, on top of this 'FGFA' project is being hiked up, I can see why India chose to get the Rafale and Apache as their fed up with the extra opportunity cost associated with the Russians.

Though it has been stated many times, but let me say it again.

Whatever money India paid, was for refit, Migs, missiles etc. Good luck getting a carrier that size in 2 billion USD.

 

[Kloitra]

This is typical Russian way of business. They come with a lucrative contract, get money from you to start the project and carry it some way and then when you have put in a substantial amount and are too far gone to withdraw, they stop work and hit you with a cost escalation, they have done it before in aircraft carrier Gorshkov and other projects and now in the fifth generation fighter. Our government keeps falling into their trap, why can't we look for other partners ?

They share their latest tech with India, involves in development of their latest, and their is all weather cooperation. No other partner for this level of development and no other country delivering on time and cost for such projects.