5 security personnel martyred in Balochistan

[ziaulislam]

FC and their generals remind me of Hollywood movie enemy at the gates where Soviets used to send their ill-equipped troops to war despite knowing they all would be killed without doing any damage

but those were desperate times..this is criminal negligence

FC Balochistan needs more equipment and training. A bunch of mountain monkeys keep killing them

these small sucess keep moutnian monekys morals high..if FC decrease it losses , the insurgency will die on its own

 

[Zahidkhan686]

I came across Hamza MRAPs which I believe is made locally. Wouldn't this do the job?

I am not making an argument for not having MRAPs, but at the end of the day, all of this comes back to money. Is there enough to equip all units? Unfortunately the answer is always no. The local version is obviously a useless platform thus it has not been rolled out in large numbers besides some limited use by Police. Like most third world countries, absent funding, manpower will be used to make up for shortfalls.

Also, the tone of this thread, "Generals don't care" is not apt. Which ever unit, wing, brigade or division loses its troops, it hits them hard all the way from a junior officer to those in command. The problem is that it is not up to the senior officers of FC. They make the call on equipment as their recommendations get rolled up and then someone from the finance ministry has to approve this funding for the interior ministry. This is where the lack of funding comes up. Both Army and FC need such platforms but neither has enough due to funding issues.

 

[blain2]

I came across Hamza MRAPs which I believe is made locally. Wouldn't this do the job?

The proof of the pudding is in induction. Pakistan has been waging a COIN campaign for the past 15 years and the local production has not seen the light of day in service with the infantry or FC or even police in any serious numbers. The reality is that PA is a tough customer. They don't induct equipment just because it is locally developed and if it isn't as durable and rugged to meet the needs at the right price. Whereas the Gulf militaries can go for the top of the line hardware, Pakistan's case is always the harder because the process of vetting and selection is put through the grinder in a much more elaborate manner than most other comparative militaries (this is a plus of having a military that has a well defined selection and procurement process after decades of evolution mixed in with operations). What makes it harder is that lacking the financial wherewithal means that many top of the line options are simply not possible.

This is where one wishes that the economy was able to address this issue by putting more funding in the capital acquisition budget for defence so things could be fast tracked.

 

[MBT 3000]

some endian monkeys on twitter are claiming 10 martyred by "baloch freedom fighters"

 

[blain2]

some ****** monkeys on twitter are claiming 10 martyred by "baloch freedom fighters"

Well propaganda aside, they would probably claim the wounded as casualties too. Unfortunate week for the security forces with casualties in Balochistan, LoC and also the attack on IG in Karachi.

 

[ziaulislam]

The proof of the pudding is in induction. Pakistan has been waging a COIN campaign for the past 15 years and the local production has not seen the light of day in service with the infantry or FC or even police in any serious numbers. The reality is that PA is a tough customer. They don't induct equipment just because it is locally developed and if it isn't as durable and rugged to meet the needs at the right price. Whereas the Gulf militaries can go for the top of the line hardware, Pakistan's case is always the harder because the process of vetting and selection is put through the grinder in a much more elaborate manner than most other comparative militaries (this is a plus of having a military that has a well defined selection and procurement process after decades of evolution mixed in with operations). What makes it harder is that lacking the financial wherewithal means that many top of the line options are simply not possible.

This is where one wishes that the economy was able to address this issue by putting more funding in the capital acquisition budget for defence so things could be fast tracked.

you dont take 15 years to induct a MRAP..there is no excuse
there are well tested platforms available all over the world, if they couldnt come up with a solution them selves

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Avoidable Loss we are not using Technology to our advantage in WOT

APC like vehicles needed in hot zones or remote areas , not around politicians VIP protocol

 

[Ocean]

but those were desperate times..this is criminal negligence


these small sucess keep moutnian monekys morals high..if FC decrease it losses , the insurgency will die on its own

Yaar we see these general holidaying with their families in the most exotic of locations their kids studying at bestest unis in usa, how on earth is this huge sum getting showered on them?

But when we talk about military gear then suddenly the excuse of diverting blame on finance ministry tau woh minstry tau yeh ministry ajata hai.

Sab mil kay khatay hain yehi paisa laga hota tau kam say kam 500 mraps tau inducted hotin

Infact these generals dont even raise their kids in pakistan too stinky place for them they send them overseas.

 

[Aegon]

thing is the one to suffer on the ground if foot soldier. High ranking officials can sit comfortably in a.c. and make policies. even after retirement the high ranking officials get some business or large plot which the common soldier gets peanuts. this is true for all developing nations. perhaps more worse wit pakistan.

 

[Reichsmarschall]

thing is the one to suffer on the ground if foot soldier. High ranking officials can sit comfortably in a.c. and make policies. even after retirement the high ranking officials get some business or large plot which the common soldier gets peanuts. this is true for all developing nations. perhaps more worse wit pakistan.

enlisted men also get plot in DHA and a lot of money

 

[SunilM]

Book shines light on Pakistan military's '£10bn empire'


Book shines light on Pakistan military's '£10bn empire'
· Business interests range from cement to cornflakes
· Little transparency into officer-led conglomerates


Declan Walsh in Islamabad

The Pakistani military's private business empire could be worth as much as £10bn, according to a ground-breaking study. Retired and serving officers run secretive industrial conglomerates, manufacture everything from cement to cornflakes, and own 12m acres [4.8m hectares] of public land, says Dr Ayesha Siddiqa, author of Military Inc: Inside Pakistan's Military Economy.
The book tackles a previously taboo subject - the range and depth of the military's business interests - considered a major factor in the ambitions of the generals who have ruled Pakistan for more than half of its 60-year history. "It feeds directly into the military's political power; it's an expression of their personal and organisation strength," said Ms Siddiqa, a former director of research at the Pakistan navy.

Five giant conglomerates, known as "welfare foundations", run thousands of businesses, ranging from street corner petrol pumps to sprawling industrial plants. The main street of any Pakistani town bears testament to their economic power, with military-owned bakeries, banks, insurance companies and universities, usually fronted by civilian employees. Ms Siddiqa estimates that the military controls one-third of all heavy manufacturing and up to 7% of private assets.

Profits are supposed to be pumped back into schools, hospitals and other welfare facilities - the military claims it has 9 million beneficiaries - but there is little transparency. "There is little evidence that pensioners are benefiting from these welfare facilities," she said.

Of the 96 businesses run by the four largest foundations, only nine file public accounts. The generals spurn demands by parliament to account for public monies they spend.

The military's penetration into society has accelerated under President Pervez Musharraf, who has also parachuted 1,200 officers into key positions in public organisations such as universities and training colleges. The military boasts that it can run such organisations better than incompetent and corrupt civilians.

In a 2004 speech to open a new industry owned by the Fauji ("Soldier") Foundation, General Musharraf boasted of "exceptional" military-owned banks, cement and fertiliser plants. "Why is anyone jealous if the retired military officers or the civilians with them are doing a good job contributing to the economy?" he said.

But Ms Siddiqa says the military businesses thrive, thanks to invisible state subsidies in the form of free land, the use of military assets, and loans to bail them out when they run into trouble. "There are gross inefficiencies and the military is mired in crony capitalism. The primary purpose of a trained military is war fighting. They are not designed for the corporate sector."

Her £10bn estimate of military wealth is a "rough figure", she says, split between £6bn in land and private military assets.

"Military Inc." comes at a sensitive time for Gen Musharraf, who is struggling to rebuild his popularity after the botched dismissal of the chief justice, Muhammad Iftikhar Chaudhry, in March. The move sparked nationwide demonstrations that have snowballed into a powerful protest movement. The furore has offered an insight into the raw power wielded by the generals. This week, Justice Chaudhry told the supreme court how military intelligence chiefs spent hours trying to pressure him to quit on March 9, before placing him under effective house arrest.

Ms Siddiqa fears her book, which names names and pours cold water on boastful claims, may step on some powerful toes. "Over the past three years a lot of my friends have advised me not to publish this book. They think I have suicidal tendencies."

But Talat Hussain, a retired general and political analyst, said Ms Siddiqa was a "courageous" researcher. "This area has always been considered a sacred cow in our society," he said.

The book will be launched in Islamabad today. The main military spokesman, Major General Waheed Arshad, said he had not yet obtained a copy. "Let me read it and then I'll get back to you," he said.

Backstory

The 650,000-strong military has been at the heart of power since Pakistan was carved from northern India in 1947. Generals seized power in 1958 and have ruled intermittently since. The main intelligence service, the ISI, has consistently meddled in politics. Three-quarters of all army recruits come from Punjab, reflecting a similar imbalance in the country's power structures. The army's reputation for professionalism stretches back to colonial days, but has been eroded by business-related corruption allegations and three wars with India, including the loss of its eastern half, with the independence of Bangladesh in 1971.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/may/31/books.pakistan

 

[senses]

Can anyone confirm if it was the SSG vehicle that was targeted?

 

[Reichsmarschall]

Book shines light on Pakistan military's '£10bn empire'


Book shines light on Pakistan military's '£10bn empire'
· Business interests range from cement to cornflakes
· Little transparency into officer-led conglomerates


Declan Walsh in Islamabad

The Pakistani military's private business empire could be worth as much as £10bn, according to a ground-breaking study. Retired and serving officers run secretive industrial conglomerates, manufacture everything from cement to cornflakes, and own 12m acres [4.8m hectares] of public land, says Dr Ayesha Siddiqa, author of Military Inc: Inside Pakistan's Military Economy.
The book tackles a previously taboo subject - the range and depth of the military's business interests - considered a major factor in the ambitions of the generals who have ruled Pakistan for more than half of its 60-year history. "It feeds directly into the military's political power; it's an expression of their personal and organisation strength," said Ms Siddiqa, a former director of research at the Pakistan navy.

Five giant conglomerates, known as "welfare foundations", run thousands of businesses, ranging from street corner petrol pumps to sprawling industrial plants. The main street of any Pakistani town bears testament to their economic power, with military-owned bakeries, banks, insurance companies and universities, usually fronted by civilian employees. Ms Siddiqa estimates that the military controls one-third of all heavy manufacturing and up to 7% of private assets.

Profits are supposed to be pumped back into schools, hospitals and other welfare facilities - the military claims it has 9 million beneficiaries - but there is little transparency. "There is little evidence that pensioners are benefiting from these welfare facilities," she said.

Of the 96 businesses run by the four largest foundations, only nine file public accounts. The generals spurn demands by parliament to account for public monies they spend.

The military's penetration into society has accelerated under President Pervez Musharraf, who has also parachuted 1,200 officers into key positions in public organisations such as universities and training colleges. The military boasts that it can run such organisations better than incompetent and corrupt civilians.

In a 2004 speech to open a new industry owned by the Fauji ("Soldier") Foundation, General Musharraf boasted of "exceptional" military-owned banks, cement and fertiliser plants. "Why is anyone jealous if the retired military officers or the civilians with them are doing a good job contributing to the economy?" he said.

But Ms Siddiqa says the military businesses thrive, thanks to invisible state subsidies in the form of free land, the use of military assets, and loans to bail them out when they run into trouble. "There are gross inefficiencies and the military is mired in crony capitalism. The primary purpose of a trained military is war fighting. They are not designed for the corporate sector."

Her £10bn estimate of military wealth is a "rough figure", she says, split between £6bn in land and private military assets.

"Military Inc." comes at a sensitive time for Gen Musharraf, who is struggling to rebuild his popularity after the botched dismissal of the chief justice, Muhammad Iftikhar Chaudhry, in March. The move sparked nationwide demonstrations that have snowballed into a powerful protest movement. The furore has offered an insight into the raw power wielded by the generals. This week, Justice Chaudhry told the supreme court how military intelligence chiefs spent hours trying to pressure him to quit on March 9, before placing him under effective house arrest.

Ms Siddiqa fears her book, which names names and pours cold water on boastful claims, may step on some powerful toes. "Over the past three years a lot of my friends have advised me not to publish this book. They think I have suicidal tendencies."

But Talat Hussain, a retired general and political analyst, said Ms Siddiqa was a "courageous" researcher. "This area has always been considered a sacred cow in our society," he said.

The book will be launched in Islamabad today. The main military spokesman, Major General Waheed Arshad, said he had not yet obtained a copy. "Let me read it and then I'll get back to you," he said.

Backstory

The 650,000-strong military has been at the heart of power since Pakistan was carved from northern India in 1947. Generals seized power in 1958 and have ruled intermittently since. The main intelligence service, the ISI, has consistently meddled in politics. Three-quarters of all army recruits come from Punjab, reflecting a similar imbalance in the country's power structures. The army's reputation for professionalism stretches back to colonial days, but has been eroded by business-related corruption allegations and three wars with India, including the loss of its eastern half, with the independence of Bangladesh in 1971.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/may/31/books.pakistan

Tell us Indian Army dosn't run any bussiness empire

 

[SunilM]

Tell us Indian Army dosn't run any bussiness empire

No. And neither do the generals get plots.

 

[Reichsmarschall]

No. And neither do the generals get plots.

how cute I wish the time you spend here posting crap against Pakistan if you have utilize it to learn about your own country you wouldn't have made a moron out of yourself

India's national auditor has criticised the armed forces for illegally running nearly 100 golf courses and sports clubs on government land.

It says that the military is the country's largest land owner and has 97 courses, covering at least 8,000 acres.

Retail chain that makes most money in India is the Army canteen!
CSD outlets operate around just seven basic product groups – toiletries, household requisites, general use items, watches and stationery, liquor, food and medicinal items and automobiles.

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Retail chain that makes most money in India is the Army canteen! Pic: CSD website
By ZeeBiz WebTeam
Updated: Thu, Aug 18, 2016
05:58 pm
Mumbai, ZeeBiz WebDesk
Even as Baba Ramdev-led Patanjali is rolling its sleeves to take on global fast moving consumer goods (FMCG) companies in India, the real competition lies elswhere.



A Right to Information Act (RTI) query has revealed that the most profitable retail chain in India in the year gone by was not a private sector company but a subsidised chain of stores run by India's defence forces.

The Economic Times, quoting the RTI answer, said that Canteen Stores Department (CSD) as they are known, clocked Rs 236 crore as profit 2014-15.

The report stated that Avenue Supermart, which runs D’Mart stores made a profit of Rs 211 crore while Future Retail made Rs 153 crore and Reliance Retail made Rs 159 crore in the same period.

With 3,901 canteen units and 34 depots in India the stores’ sales revenue was at Rs 13,709 crore.

CSD outlets operate around just seven basic product groups – toiletries, household requisites, general use items, watches and stationery, liquor, food and medicinal items and automobiles.

Liquor contributed to 26% of the total sales revenue as compared to toiletries which accounted for 23% while automobile and white goods represented 20%.

CSD accounts for 5-7% of total volume sales of liquor and consumer products.

How do they do it?
With the lowest operating margin of 1% the non-profit organization receives huge tax exemptions on goods sold from the government.

Apart from that, CSDs receive discounts from vendor companies which offer better deals to the Defence Canteens than to local kirana shops.

The future however is uncertain for these canteens as ecommerce websites butt it with seemingly bigger discounts.

CSDs in Punjab, Uttar Pradesh, Bihar and Jharkhand that formally reported huge army demand have witnessed a fall in customer patronizing with the emergence of ecommerce websites.

and I have not even mentioned the Billions of USD they made in huge scams Indian Army is a God of corruption no one can meet their capabilities when it comes to corruption

Jeeps scam, 1948: After Independence the Indian government signed a deal with a company in England to supply 200 Jeeps. The contract was worth Rs 80 lakh but only 155 Jeeps were delivered. The then India's high commissioner to England VK Krishna Menon was embroiled in the controversy. But the case was closed in 1955 and later Menon went on to become former prime minister Jawahar Lal Nehru's trusted aide and India's defence minister.



Bofors scam, 1987: Former Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi was at the centre of the Bofors scandal after allegations that Rs 64 crore was paid to middlemen to facilitate the deal for the 155mm howitzers from the Swedish firm Bofors. The allegations were first made by the Swedish radio. It was alleged that Ottavio Quattrocchi, who was close to the family of Rajiv Gandhi, acted as a middleman in the deal and received kickbacks. The deal for 400 Bofors guns was worth $1.3 billion.

Barak missile scam: India had planned to purchase Barak missile from Israel. But former president APJ Abdul Kalam, who was the scientific adviser to the Prime Minster when the Barak missile deal was being negotiated, had opposed the weapons system. India had bought seven Barak missile systems costing Rs 1,150 crore from Israel. The CBI had registered an FIR in the case in 2006. Former treasurer of the Samata Party RK Jain was arrested in the case. The CBI had questioned why the system was purchased even after the DRDO had raised its objections. According to the CBI the missile system was purchased at a much higher rate than that initially quoted by Israel. It was also alleged that the then defence minister George Fernandes had ignored the objections raised by the scientific adviser.

Coffin scam, 1999: During the 1999 Kargil war coffins were purchased top sent the bodies of martyred soldiers to their families. The CBI had registered a case against a US contractor and some senior Army officers. Then Defence Minister George Fernandes was also accused of being involved in the case.


Tehelka scam,1999: Tehelka.com, an online news portal revealed how army officers and political leaders were involved in taking bribes during arms deals. The sting showed that bribes were paid in at least 15 deals including the Barak missile case. In this sting which was code named Operation West End two Tehelka journalists posed as arms dealers and met several politicians and defence officers. Former BJP president Bangaru Laxam was shown taking a bribe of Rs 1 lakh in the sting. Then Samata Party chief George Fernandes's close friend Jaya Jaitley was also seen speaking to the Tehelka journalists. The government had also acted against one one Major General and four other senior army officers after their name cropped up the in sting operation. Fernandes, who was the defence minister then, resigned after the tapes were made public, but he was reinstated later.

Sudipta Ghosh case, 2009: In 2009 the former Ordnance Factory Board director general Sudipta Ghosh was arrested by the CBI. Ghosh had allegedly taken bribes from two Indian and four foreign companies which had been blacklisted by Defence Minister AK Antony.

Tatra trucks scam, 2012: Former Army Chief General VK Singh alleged that he was offered Rs 14 crore as bribe to clear a the purchase of Tatra trucks. Questions were also raised about the quality of the trucks.


and the retired officers get much more than just a plot in IA please some research