5 reasons why India needs to worry about China’s military base in Djibouti

[turbofan7a]

If you see any communist around here or in China let me know. They are more rare than the Panda now.

If you read Chinese history, Mao only actually studied communism half way through his revolution. After the long march. What is Communism with Chinese characteristics? Not communism, if it were, they would have just call it communism.

Then why do you have the CCP at the power, should not they be elected by fighting elections with a multiparty system.

 

[Genesis]

Then why do you have the CCP at the power, should not they be elected by fighting elections with a multiparty system.

Let's look at China and India without using names.

One nation has made incremental changes in its policies, another has massive swings of policy changes every now and then. Which is the elected party?

Just because China doesn't elect doesn't mean it stays the same, in fact a study has found China has changed the most of all countries since 1979.

I'm not against democracy, I am against democracy for the sake of it. I am not saying it is perfect, but the fact Chinese can make fun of India, though in poor taste I must say, is saying a lot. I am saying the end goal should be prosperity and not a name on a ballet. How is voting for Joe Exotic in America more important than the ability to afford indoor plumbing for the first time.

 

[turbofan7a]

Let's look at China and India without using names.

One nation has made incremental changes in its policies, another has massive swings of policy changes every now and then. Which is the elected party?

Just because China doesn't elect doesn't mean it stays the same, in fact a study has found China has changed the most of all countries since 1979.

I'm not against democracy, I am against democracy for the sake of it. I am not saying it is perfect, but the fact Chinese can make fun of India, though in poor taste I must say, is saying a lot. I am saying the end goal should be prosperity and not a name on a ballet. How is voting for Joe Exotic in America more important than the ability to afford indoor plumbing for the first time.

Do not give me this nonsense!!!, communism is better than democracy then why are the chinese millioneres are migrating in hoards to other countries and enjoying democracy there.

 

[wiseone2]

There are limits to what India and China can and will do in a war, if there ever were one. If India ever attacks a land base that China occupies, there would be retaliation. Every side understands this, so even in a conflict there are limits to what can be done.

Any conflict that does happen would most likely happen over a few days, it isn't whether Djibouti allows China to use its base, so much as China can use its assets already there instead of having to travel all the way from China.

Also Indian naval air is weak at the moment, as is China's. It is not nearly enough to mount an attack on a military base. You need at least French level of air power to be able to do that. Even Russia is in capable of attack anything but ISIS.


Apparently not you, well obviously you don't need one there, but there is no East or South Asia equivalent to a Djibouti base for India.

Attacking Djibouti is not hard. It is far away but lightly defended. Djibouti is not allowing China to use their soil for war against India. It is not hard for India to acquire Tu-142M/Il-38s and hit any Chinese base in Djibouti. India would do it only in the case Chinese ships in Djibouti threatened Indian shipping. India does not think this would ever happen. Indian navy is retiring Tu-142Ms. Most likely the Il-38s would be history too.

India does not need a base in South Asia. India does not have bases in East Asia. India does not plan to operate there independently.

 

[Genesis]

Do not give me this nonsense!!!, communism is better than democracy then why are the chinese millioneres are migrating in hoards to other countries and enjoying democracy there.

You understand what communism is right? Where is the communism? I never argued authoritarian is better than democracy, but in China's specific case it has done better than democracies that started in the same boat and it shouldn't be changed for the sake of change, that is all.

China does not export its ideology, why does it even matter what it calls itself?

As to Chinese millionaires, why are they migrating to America? Why are Indians? Why are you? Are you escaping communism too? Is it not the same reason? America as a nation has way better than living conditions.

Attacking Djibouti is not hard. It is far away but lightly defended. Djibouti is not allowing China to use their soil for war against India. It is not hard for India to acquire Tu-142M/Il-38s and hit any Chinese base in Djibouti. India would do it only in the case Chinese ships in Djibouti threatened Indian shipping. India does not think this would ever happen. Indian navy is retiring Tu-142Ms. Most likely the Il-38s would be history too.

India does not need a base in South Asia. India does not have bases in East Asia. India does not plan to operate there independently.

It isn't difficult, but why would you. You have bases too in India which is well within range of Chinese weapons. There's a level of violence that just won't be used.

Any skirmish that India and China has that actually last enough time for the usage of a base to be an issue, the world's existence would come into question. Hence it isn't so much will China be able to use the base in war, so much as China now has a presence in South Asia and Afrca.

As you have said, India does not need a base in South Asia, and no plans in East Asia, but China does have plans for South Asia, so owe do need bases there.

 

[wiseone2]

Any skirmish that India and China has that actually last enough time for the usage of a base to be an issue, the world's existence would come into question. Hence it isn't so much will China be able to use the base in war, so much as China now has a presence in South Asia and Afrca.

As you have said, India does not need a base in South Asia, and no plans in East Asia, but China does have plans for South Asia, so owe do need bases there.

Djibouti is not South Asia. All Chinese bases in South Asia are unusable in a hot war. What ever said about Djibouti will apply to Chinese bases (if any) in Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Myanmar. I expect those governments to intern Chinese forces in event of a war.

Chinese base in Pakistan will be a different story subject to dynamics of India-Pakistan relationship. On one hand Pakistan can resist a quite a bit more than Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Myanmar. On the other hand the nuclear status of India and Pakistan will send the international community breathing down everyone neck.

 

[Genesis]

Djibouti is not South Asia. All Chinese bases in South Asia are unusable in a hot war. What ever said about Djibouti will apply to Chinese bases (if any) in Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Myanmar. I expect those governments to intern Chinese forces in event of a war.

Chinese base in Pakistan will be a different story subject to dynamics of India-Pakistan relationship. On one hand Pakistan can resist a quite a bit more than Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Myanmar. On the other hand the nuclear status of India and Pakistan will send the international community breathing down everyone neck.

Chinese and Indian forces will not need bases in war. there be one skirmish, if that, and itll end, or the world might too.

the point again is China will not need to make the journey from China to Indian Ocean, but we already be there. So China can always dp battle far away from, well, China.

Djibouti may not be in South Asia, but it is close enough that it gives China that presence, same as US with Guam.

 

[wiseone2]

Chinese and Indian forces will not need bases in war. there be one skirmish, if that, and itll end, or the world might too.

the point again is China will not need to make the journey from China to Indian Ocean, but we already be there. So China can always dp battle far away from, well, China.

Djibouti may not be in South Asia, but it is close enough that it gives China that presence, same as US with Guam.

Are some of you deaf ? or playing dumb. USA owns Guam. It is sovereign American territory. You do not own Djibouti. Your bases means nothing in war. Djibouti's leaders may like your cash. They are not dying for you. Even your evergreen ally Pakistan will think twice before joining India-China war.

Any Chinese warship with hostile intent in the Indian Ocean is a sitting duck to Indian naval air attack. The only challenge for India is to locate Chinese warships in the vast ocean.

You can always send forces from East Asia. They will be entering the Indian Ocean through 3 entry points. Indian navy will be waiting at the 3 entry points.

 

[Genesis]

Are some of you deaf ? or playing dumb. USA owns Guam. It is sovereign American territory. You do not own Djibouti. Your bases means nothing in war. Djibouti's leaders may like your cash. They are not dying for you. Even your evergreen ally Pakistan will think twice before joining India-China war.

Any Chinese warship with hostile intent in the Indian Ocean is a sitting duck to Indian naval air attack. The only challenge for India is to locate Chinese warships in the vast ocean.

You can always send forces from East Asia. They will be entering the Indian Ocean through 3 entry points. Indian navy will be waiting at the 3 entry points.

Are you? No bases will be needed in war is that not understood? How long would the battle go on for Chinese ships to actually need to return to harbor and resupply?

Your naval air is about 12 planes on a ship, you are way overestimating your naval air power. I don't want to get into a whole who's navy is stronger, but suffice to say, if we were, I can bring in the numbers, as this isn't the first time someone made that assertion. If you want we can get into it. Just off the top of my head, of the modern destroyers India has 3, China has 11 active, with at least 2 more ready to enter service this year. The others also doesn't exactly favor you.

 

[wiseone2]

Are you? No bases will be needed in war is that not understood? How long would the battle go on for Chinese ships to actually need to return to harbor and resupply?

Your naval air is about 12 planes on a ship, you are way overestimating your naval air power. I don't want to get into a whole who's navy is stronger, but suffice to say, if we were, I can bring in the numbers, as this isn't the first time someone made that assertion. If you want we can get into it. Just off the top of my head, of the modern destroyers India has 3, China has 11 active, with at least 2 more ready to enter service this year. The others also doesn't exactly favor you.

Naval air does not have to be carrier based. Shore based aircraft can inflict a lot of losses. A modern guided missile destroyer in Bay of Bengal is not going to last too long against Indian air attacks. You do not need a combat aircraft to whack the destroyer. Dornier-228 aircraft or Sea King helicopter with Exocet anti-ship missile can do the job. Every warship has a limited amount of SAMs - 10 to 100. The hard job for Indian military is to locate Chinese ships in Indian Ocean.

Until China can deploy multiple carrier battle groups operations in the Indian ocean against India are a fantasy. Or you need one of South Asian countries to commit suicide for you.

This is what happens when you send ships without naval air cover
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ten-Go

 

[turbofan7a]

You understand what communism is right? Where is the communism? I never argued authoritarian is better than democracy, but in China's specific case it has done better than democracies that started in the same boat and it shouldn't be changed for the sake of change, that is all.

China does not export its ideology, why does it even matter what it calls itself?

As to Chinese millionaires, why are they migrating to America? Why are Indians? Why are you? Are you escaping communism too? Is it not the same reason? America as a nation has way better than living conditions.

Every time communism was tried, it failed. Whenever it was tried with the backing of state power, it failed after widespread bloodletting, starvation, and tyranny.

There are several prominent theories about why communism is an untenable way of organizing society, most notably by Hayek and Popper, the former providing a literal road map of how communism was bound to fail. Of course, many people have theories about how society can and cannot be organized, and it is almost impossible to run controlled experiments on real populations to see what might work, which is why the die-hard faithful will point to the failures of Soviet Russia and Maoist China as just two data points that don't sufficiently prove communism is a failed ideology.

 

[Han Patriot]

Every time communism was tried, it failed. Whenever it was tried with the backing of state power, it failed after widespread bloodletting, starvation, and tyranny.

There are several prominent theories about why communism is an untenable way of organizing society, most notably by Hayek and Popper, the former providing a literal road map of how communism was bound to fail. Of course, many people have theories about how society can and cannot be organized, and it is almost impossible to run controlled experiments on real populations to see what might work, which is why the die-hard faithful will point to the failures of Soviet Russia and Maoist China as just two data points that don't sufficiently prove communism is a failed ideology.

First try to understand what is Communism, it is an 'ECONOMIC' philosophy genius.

 

[turbofan7a]

First try to understand what is Communism, it is an 'ECONOMIC' philosophy genius.

http://www.allaboutphilosophy.org/communism.htm

 

[Han Patriot]

http://www.allaboutphilosophy.org/communism.htm

a political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs.

 

[turbofan7a]

a political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs.

Marxist communism inevitably lead to coercion and state domination. Mikhail Bakunin believed Marxist regimes would lead to the "despotic control of the populace by a new and not at all numerous aristocracy."Even if this new aristocracy were to have originated from among the ranks of the proletariat, Bakunin argued that their new-found power would fundamentally change their view of society and thus lead them to "look down at the plain working masses."